Blues #1 goaltender race Allen vs. Binnington
- Thread starter Ranksu
- Start date
fishsandwichpatrol
Registered User
Majorityof1
Registered User
Maybe don't edit my post when you quote it if you want to keep it clean. I wrote:
So I was in no way advocating Allen for #1 goaltender, or this ridiculous thread you keep remaking.
So I was in no way advocating Allen for #1 goaltender, or this ridiculous thread you keep remaking.
We're 2nd in the entire league, 1st in the West with an 8 point lead to boot.
Allen is succeeding in a lesser role, which he has demonstrated throughout his career.
Binnington has had an increase in bad games from last season, but has still been a solid starter.
This shouldn't be a conversation, especially given the context is which player is better at their absolute best, of which both have demonstrated that they can carry the team for stretches:
Allen in 2017 from post all star break through the playoffs posted a <2.00 GAA and a .935 sv%.
Binnington last season.
Why can't we just be happy with a stable goaltending situation for once...
Allen is succeeding in a lesser role, which he has demonstrated throughout his career.
Binnington has had an increase in bad games from last season, but has still been a solid starter.
This shouldn't be a conversation, especially given the context is which player is better at their absolute best, of which both have demonstrated that they can carry the team for stretches:
Allen in 2017 from post all star break through the playoffs posted a <2.00 GAA and a .935 sv%.
Binnington last season.
Why can't we just be happy with a stable goaltending situation for once...
WeWantTacos
they said aw-reety an' they was aw-righty
Fez Whatley
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2015
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I think you got on your horse about this rather silly question because I wrote a few days ago that Allen at his best might be better than Binnington at his best. And in doing so, I remarked that Allen has too many off games. I was not trying to argue in any way that I advocate Allen being #1. This non-question hijacked the post for the most part at your instigation. I am sorry I made the remark that I did. Call upstairs to your mom and ask for a hug .
Brockon
Cautiously optimistic realist when caffeinated.
I can't say I agree... This is Ranksu's favourite question to ask. I can recall 3 such threads from last season alone.
1 in the pre-season when it was a legitimate question. 1 after Johnson was waived. Another when Binnington had a few rough games when fatigue was affecting him when Allen wasn't getting any starts.
And I seem to remember a 4th one that was locked within 2 hours of being created, because we'd already flogged the subject to death - but that could have been the 3rd iteration of the thread last season.
Renard
Registered User
AjaxManifesto
Pro sports is becoming predictable and boring
Hockey Stick
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- Jan 3, 2018
- 1,406
- 1,177
I still think Binnington is the guy that would take them to another cup final if it were to happen, not Allen. It is really nice to see him putting good numbers up again. Always felt bad for him when be was having a tough time
Note Worthy
History Made
The 4th or 5th version of this same thread has even less point than the last one.
bleedblue1223
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- Jan 21, 2011
- 51,863
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Once Parayko returns, I think we'll see Binnington back to normal. Those 2 Colorado games are really the drivers in his numbers look down a bit. That Toronto game as well.
DoubleK81
It's always something with these pricks.
Allen is GREAT as a 1b or backup. Not so much as a bonafide starter. He's the goaltending version of Sanford- He has all the skills, but when depended upon he is just lackluster.
Jake's doing what he's always done. He is above average when he isn't ridden like a horse. His worst periods in net come when the team itself has played absolute shit on defense. The league has gotten a good look at Binnington now and they are exploiting his weaknesses on video day.
Jake's doing what he's always done. He is above average when he isn't ridden like a horse. His worst periods in net come when the team itself has played absolute shit on defense. The league has gotten a good look at Binnington now and they are exploiting his weaknesses on video day.
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,108
- 13,013
This again...
Here is my post from the general discussion thread regarding this topic.
It is not.
Each year there are maybe 1-2 goalies who don't experience the type of slump Binner is in. Those guys are nominated for the Vezina, along with 1-2 guys who had a slump like this (or bigger) but also had runs of insanely hot play. This is being a starter in the NHL. Binner still has a .912, a 60% quality start rate, and a +3.85 GSAA.
Diving into advanced stats, let's filter out goalies with less than 900 minutes played at 5 on 5 to get our sample of the 40 goalies in the NHL with the most TOI. At 5 on 5, he has the 13th lowest expected SV% (which measures the quality of shots faced, not goalie's performance) and has faced the 11th most shots in the league. He is facing a difficult workload. The difference between his actual SV% and expected SV% is 12th. His 5 on 5 GSAA is 12th. He is 6th in high danger SV%, 9th in medium danger SV% and 20th in low danger SV%. You'd like that last number to come up a bit, but the difference between 10th and 20th in that stat is just .32% (98.03% to 97.71%). At the end of the day average to above average goalies are stopping low danger shots at roughly the same rate. We are probably talking about 1 extra low danger goal than the top 10 goalies at this point in the season. As that is the only non-above-average stat, that's not even remotely troubling.
Binner has had a soft few starts, but he is undoubtedly the starter. There is not a competition for the number 1 job here.
Jake has absolutely earned more starts. Binner had a really high workload in the first 3+ months of the season and is currently tied for 5th in starts. Given Allen's play, we should be deploying him like a top tier backup unless/until his play drops off. Halak has 22 starts this year. Khudobin has 17 starts this year. Both of them have outplayed their starter at times this year and both of them will undoubtedly be wearing baseball caps throughout the playoffs barring an injury. They are squarely backup goalies, but they play more games than your run of the mill backup. Allen deserves that role (and at 14 starts this year is on the cusp of it).
Allen has earned an extra game every couple weeks over the remainder of the season and there would be absolutely nothing wrong with giving him 60% or more of the starts over the next couple weeks if he stays hot and Binner doesn't. But that is not a goalie competition. That is riding the hot hand, which most teams do at some point in the year even when they are 100% confident about who plays game 1 of the first round.
Here is my post from the general discussion thread regarding this topic.
It is not.
Each year there are maybe 1-2 goalies who don't experience the type of slump Binner is in. Those guys are nominated for the Vezina, along with 1-2 guys who had a slump like this (or bigger) but also had runs of insanely hot play. This is being a starter in the NHL. Binner still has a .912, a 60% quality start rate, and a +3.85 GSAA.
Diving into advanced stats, let's filter out goalies with less than 900 minutes played at 5 on 5 to get our sample of the 40 goalies in the NHL with the most TOI. At 5 on 5, he has the 13th lowest expected SV% (which measures the quality of shots faced, not goalie's performance) and has faced the 11th most shots in the league. He is facing a difficult workload. The difference between his actual SV% and expected SV% is 12th. His 5 on 5 GSAA is 12th. He is 6th in high danger SV%, 9th in medium danger SV% and 20th in low danger SV%. You'd like that last number to come up a bit, but the difference between 10th and 20th in that stat is just .32% (98.03% to 97.71%). At the end of the day average to above average goalies are stopping low danger shots at roughly the same rate. We are probably talking about 1 extra low danger goal than the top 10 goalies at this point in the season. As that is the only non-above-average stat, that's not even remotely troubling.
Binner has had a soft few starts, but he is undoubtedly the starter. There is not a competition for the number 1 job here.
Jake has absolutely earned more starts. Binner had a really high workload in the first 3+ months of the season and is currently tied for 5th in starts. Given Allen's play, we should be deploying him like a top tier backup unless/until his play drops off. Halak has 22 starts this year. Khudobin has 17 starts this year. Both of them have outplayed their starter at times this year and both of them will undoubtedly be wearing baseball caps throughout the playoffs barring an injury. They are squarely backup goalies, but they play more games than your run of the mill backup. Allen deserves that role (and at 14 starts this year is on the cusp of it).
Allen has earned an extra game every couple weeks over the remainder of the season and there would be absolutely nothing wrong with giving him 60% or more of the starts over the next couple weeks if he stays hot and Binner doesn't. But that is not a goalie competition. That is riding the hot hand, which most teams do at some point in the year even when they are 100% confident about who plays game 1 of the first round.
TheGoldenGod
5 Star Man
- Nov 8, 2017
- 3,864
- 6,683
Still rocking w/ Binner obviously but his numbers haven't been great lately. Still, the team seems to play better in front of him.
Since the beginning of December:
Binnington: 16 games (10-5-1), 0.888 sv%,
Allen: 12 games (4-4-1), 0.934 sv%
Since the beginning of December:
Binnington: 16 games (10-5-1), 0.888 sv%,
Allen: 12 games (4-4-1), 0.934 sv%
