Blues #1 goaltender race Allen vs. Binnington vs. Husso?

Blues #1 goaltender?

  • Jake Allen

    Votes: 15 11.8%
  • Jordan Binnington

    Votes: 95 74.8%
  • Ville Husso

    Votes: 11 8.7%
  • Jared Koreau

    Votes: 3 2.4%
  • Evan Fitzpatrick

    Votes: 3 2.4%

  • Total voters
    127
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ItsOnlytheRiver

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Mar 25, 2010
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The difference between Binnington's situation and all the others?
-- Copley is clearly a backup to Holtby.
-- Delia will still be a backup to Crawford.
-- Stalock is clearly a backup to Dubnyk.
-- DeSmith will still be a backup to Martin.
-- Binnington is not going to be the backup to Allen. The way things are going, there's a high probability he earns the #1 spot to start next season.

That's why I'd be shocked if he settled for $1M and change. With every start that he looks solid and confident in net, his price tag for next season just ticks up a little more.
What’s his leverage, though? Is there a lot of other open starting positions people will be clamoring for him for?
 

Brockon

Cautiously optimistic realist when caffeinated.
Aug 20, 2017
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The difference between Binnington's situation and all the others?
-- Copley is clearly a backup to Holtby.
-- Delia will still be a backup to Crawford.
-- Stalock is clearly a backup to Dubnyk.
-- DeSmith will still be a backup to Martin.
-- Binnington is not going to be the backup to Allen. The way things are going, there's a high probability he earns the #1 spot to start next season.

That's why I'd be shocked if he settled for $1M and change. With every start that he looks solid and confident in net, his price tag for next season just ticks up a little more.

I believe you meant Murray here, as the only goaltender Martins I'm aware of are Martin Jones and Spencer Martin (Avs AHL goalie).

I'll agree with you that Binny gets more than the 800k-1.25m over 3 years each backup signing has received so far, but he's got considerably less of a resume than most other backups turned starters had (off the top of my head, that list includes):
Darling 75 NHL games played, signed for 4x4.15m in May 2017
Allen 99 NHL games played, signed for 4x4.35 in July 2016
Raanta 64 NHL games played, signed for 2x1 in July 2016 (behind Lundqvist)
Andersen 125 NHL games played, signed for 5x5 in June 2016
Gibson 26 NHL games played, signed for 3x2.3 in Sept 2015 (tandem Anderson)
Jones 34 NHL games played, signed for 3x3 in July 2015
Vasilevskyi 40 NHL games played, signed for 3x3.5 in July of 2016 (tandem Bishop)
Grubauer 101 NHL games played, signed for 3x3.3 (tandem Varlamov)

Of these backups turned starters, only Vasilevskyi, Allen and Gibson assumed starter roles on their own teams. The others all were traded to other teams when it was clear there was already a starter ahead of them.

When you consider this list, as opposed to RFA backups signing deals, the Koskinen extension doesn't look as egregious (though he's unproven relative to this list). Binnington's agent will likely push for something closer to the 3-4m over 3 years, I'd like to think DA would try to get something along the lines of Gibson's first deal at 3x2.3m in an effort to get a bigger sample size before committing long term.

Though if his play regresses and he isn't viewed as the de facto #1 for next year, I can see the 1.1-1.4m over 2-3 years I'd predicted previously if he remains an RFA being closer to the mark than a 3x3-4m contract.
 

Majorityof1

Registered User
Mar 6, 2014
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While Binnington may not be the backup to Allen next year, I think there is a very good chance he is the backup to someone. There just isn’t enough runway left in this season to anoint Binnington the #1 going into next season, barring a deep playoff run where he excels.

Binnington has assumed the starters role right now, and not because of injuries. That can't be said about most of the others.

Delia, despite Crawford being out, is still splitting starts with Ward as a 1A at best. Stalock has 11 starts all season, less than Binnington has over the last 15 games. Copley has 21 of 50 games all season and is a 1B at best. Desmith has mroe games than Murray but Murray was out for a bit. Since coming back Murray has played in 16 of 24 games he was healthy for (he was dinged up for one game so 16 of 25 total).

Binnington on the other hand has 11 of the last 15 starts. He is clearly carrying a starter's load right now. He stole the job (or Jake lost it). That matters. He is getting the tougher games and doing well. Also, he has better stats than any of the others you named. Among goalies with 10 or more games, Binnie has the 3rd best save percentage in the league, .931, and the best GAA, 1.72. The best of the ones named above has a .916, 2.78, which is .015 and an entire goal per game worse. If Binnington keeps this up over 20 more starts, he has a strong case for Rookie of the year. It should be between him and Pettersson, which is crazy since Binnie only played half a year but it will have been that good a half a year.

So the Blues will obviously use those deals as a comparable, but Binnington will have a strong case of differentiation. Is it his fault it took the Blues so long to give him a chance? I am not saying he will get Koskinen cash but if he keeps this up (stats and starter's workload), I could see any deal with term above $1.5 and possibly approaching $2M+.
 
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BlueDream

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Aug 30, 2011
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Yeah at this point Husso needs to start full-time in the AHL next season. If he performs well, we can call him up and give him a few starts to see how he does.
 
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mk80

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Jul 30, 2012
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Binnington has really taken the reigns and is being rewarded for it. I've been high on him for awhile, so I hope he continues his play down the stretch and into playoffs. Similarly I hope we see that late February/early March Allen resurgence that happens every year. We'll need both guys going strong come playoff time.
 

Stupendous Yappi

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Trade Allen.
I'm actually fine with Allen as the back-up. If he can recapture his level of play from his first few years that would be fine. But the other goalie needs to be someone that can function as the starter or at least a tandem at worst. If they let Binnington and Allen fight it out next season, that can work fine.

I don't think it would be wise to pair Binnington with an inexperienced partner or a guy that could step in if necessary. I also think it would be foolish to pay assets to move Allen, only to turn around and acquire a goalie who is only marginally better or possibly not as good (or very inexperienced) as his replacement. The total position salary is fine, if Binnington is signed. Its not written anywhere that the starter has to be the guy who is paid more. But Allen would be gone at the end of his contract, and Binnington would have every chance to earn a big pay-day contract.
 

mk80

Registered User
Jul 30, 2012
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I'm actually fine with Allen as the back-up. If he can recapture his level of play from his first few years that would be fine. But the other goalie needs to be someone that can function as the starter or at least a tandem at worst. If they let Binnington and Allen fight it out next season, that can work fine.

I don't think it would be wise to pair Binnington with an inexperienced partner or a guy that could step in if necessary. I also think it would be foolish to pay assets to move Allen, only to turn around and acquire a goalie who is only marginally better or possibly not as good (or very inexperienced) as his replacement. The total position salary is fine, if Binnington is signed. Its not written anywhere that the starter has to be the guy who is paid more. But Allen would be gone at the end of his contract, and Binnington would have every chance to earn a big pay-day contract.

I fully agree with your post. I think Allen is a serviceable backup and if it costs more to send him away and paying another guy (like Bobrovsky for example) it's more worth it to just keep Allen as the backup. We've seen his best, and we've seen his worst. Generally his best play sort of bookends each year October-mid December, and near the end late Feb-early March into playoffs. Really the only thing I could think of is him being dissatisfied being a backup or very least 1B to Binnington and ask to be moved.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
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While Binnington may not be the backup to Allen next year, I think there is a very good chance he is the backup to someone. There just isn’t enough runway left in this season to anoint Binnington the #1 going into next season, barring a deep playoff run where he excels.
You're going to put Allen back in the #1 spot to start next season? If Allen isn't here, who are you getting from around the league to come in and be the #1 here?

What’s his leverage, though? Is there a lot of other open starting positions people will be clamoring for him for?
Teams that I think would have a legitimate interest in Binnington as a potential #1:

Columbus - if [when] Bobrovsky leaves, they have Korpisalo. I think the kid has talent, but he's not totally put it together yet. I can see Kekalainen have interest in Binnington to make a 1A/1B tandem and let the best guy win out.

Carolina - right now, their best goalie is arguably 35-year old Curtis McElhinney toward the playoffs. Darling is out for who knows how long [and hasn't looked anything like what he did in Chicago], Mrazek is doing the hot/cold thing and is barely playing at replacement level [yet again], and Nedeljkovic is the next guy up; are the Canes really going to throw the net to him in the near-term without having something more solid in front?

New Jersey - this should be really obvious why. No, they're not riding Keith Kinkaid in net for years to come. Maybe they try riding Blackwood or Johnson, but I think that's not the ideal plan.

Detroit - Howard is 34 and UFA; Bernier is 30 and signed for a couple more years, but he's clearly a backup. Then it's 1st-year pro Patrik Rybar, who's doing good in the AHL but are you sticking him in net after just a year here?

Ottawa - because I think after the end of the season, the Senators will probably need everything. Including a new owner.

Vancouver - I don't know if Markstrom is the answer long-term. Dipietro clearly isn't ready, Demko probably isn't pushing Markstrom for the #1 spot unless Markstrom is hurt. Binnington here makes a decent amount of sense.

Arizona - especially if teh analytics say Binnington is a sure-fire lock for greatness of some weird, unknown-to-everyone-else measure.

Edmonton - even if Kostinen is signed for $4.5M x 3, it's entirely possible he gets shipped out somehow. Plus, they really don't have anything remotely close to NHL-ready at the moment.

So, are there a lot of landing places? No. Are there enough to generate interest, though? Absolutely.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
28,855
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I believe you meant Murray here, as the only goaltender Martins I'm aware of are Martin Jones and Spencer Martin (Avs AHL goalie).
Yes, I did mean Murray. My mistake there.

How about trade him or buy him out and let him return to Europe ( KHL / SHL / NLA / SM Liiga)?
He's off his ELC after this season, so there's nothing to buy out. I'd say keep him around another year. If he "gets it" you deal with it from there. If someone else wants him, evaluate Fitzpatrick and see whether you're comfortable going down to basically one goalie in the farm system knowing you're going to have to find one in the upcoming draft with the loss of Opilka, and that guy is likely going to be at least 4 years away best-case.
 

WATTAGE4451

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
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You're going to put Allen back in the #1 spot to start next season? If Allen isn't here, who are you getting from around the league to come in and be the #1 here?


Teams that I think would have a legitimate interest in Binnington as a potential #1:

Columbus - if [when] Bobrovsky leaves, they have Korpisalo. I think the kid has talent, but he's not totally put it together yet. I can see Kekalainen have interest in Binnington to make a 1A/1B tandem and let the best guy win out.

Carolina - right now, their best goalie is arguably 35-year old Curtis McElhinney toward the playoffs. Darling is out for who knows how long [and hasn't looked anything like what he did in Chicago], Mrazek is doing the hot/cold thing and is barely playing at replacement level [yet again], and Nedeljkovic is the next guy up; are the Canes really going to throw the net to him in the near-term without having something more solid in front?

New Jersey - this should be really obvious why. No, they're not riding Keith Kinkaid in net for years to come. Maybe they try riding Blackwood or Johnson, but I think that's not the ideal plan.

Detroit - Howard is 34 and UFA; Bernier is 30 and signed for a couple more years, but he's clearly a backup. Then it's 1st-year pro Patrik Rybar, who's doing good in the AHL but are you sticking him in net after just a year here?

Ottawa - because I think after the end of the season, the Senators will probably need everything. Including a new owner.

Vancouver - I don't know if Markstrom is the answer long-term. Dipietro clearly isn't ready, Demko probably isn't pushing Markstrom for the #1 spot unless Markstrom is hurt. Binnington here makes a decent amount of sense.

Arizona - especially if teh analytics say Binnington is a sure-fire lock for greatness of some weird, unknown-to-everyone-else measure.

Edmonton - even if Kostinen is signed for $4.5M x 3, it's entirely possible he gets shipped out somehow. Plus, they really don't have anything remotely close to NHL-ready at the moment.

So, are there a lot of landing places? No. Are there enough to generate interest, though? Absolutely.
None of those teams are gonna look at binny as a #1.

Maybe a 1b at most.

Remember andrew hammond? Scott darling?

Other gms arent gonna knee-jerk on a small hot streak.

Hammond looked lime a god for nearly 25 games saving the senators season then came back to earth quickly the following years
 
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carter333167

Registered User
Apr 24, 2013
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Discussing Allen starting next year as the so-called #1 is utter insanity. IMO, this team will never be able to play well around him b/c they can't trust him. It's time for him to get a look somewhere else......and best of luck to him somewhere else...I wish him the best.

BTW, I really don't want him as the back-up either. It really is probably best to part ways at this point to give him a fresh look on another team.
 
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PiggySmalls

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Mar 7, 2015
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Discussing Allen starting next year as the so-called #1 is utter insanity. He's a morale-killer at this point. IMO, this team will never be able to play well around him b/c they can't trust him. It's time for him to get a look somewhere else......and best of luck to him somewhere else...I wish him the best.

BTW, I really don't want him as the back-up either. It really is probably best to part ways at this point to give him a fresh look on another team.

Yeah the writing is on the wall. There's no way Blues can bring him back and expect the team to play with any confidence in front of him.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
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None of those teams are gonna look at binny as a #1.

Maybe a 1b at most.

Remember andrew hammond? Scott darling?

Other gms arent gonna knee-jerk on a small hot streak.

Hammond looked lime a god for nearly 25 games saving the senators season then came back to earth quickly the following years
There's always a GM who thinks "this guy is different." Always. Just like there's always a GM willing to take a chance on some former CHL star because "maybe we can get lucky and unlock some of that potential." Always.

And in some instances, GMs aren't necessarily looking for Mr. "Franchise Goalie." They're looking for Mr. "Goalie that gets me through a few years" and they'll roll the dice on someone's hot streak hoping it's a sign of things to come.
 
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PiggySmalls

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Mar 7, 2015
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There's always a GM who thinks "this guy is different." Always. Just like there's always a GM willing to take a chance on some former CHL star because "maybe we can get lucky and unlock some of that potential." Always.

And in some instances, GMs aren't necessarily looking for Mr. "Franchise Goalie." They're looking for Mr. "Goalie that gets me through a few years" and they'll roll the dice on someone's hot streak hoping it's a sign of things to come.

Yeap, every summer there is a carousel of goalies moving around. There is a lot of franchises that really lack goaltending depth. I still think Allen ends up in Columbus either by the TDL or this summer.
 

Ranksu

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I love Binny

Panger try to BE funny and Binny just give empty look.

Wonder will Panger next time to BE funny with his interviews.

 

ScratchCatFever

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Oct 14, 2018
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With last night's win- Binny is just the 5th netminder in NHL history to win 13 of his first 15 starts. I'm sifting through internet rubble to try and figure out who the other 4 are. If anyone can beat me to the punch feel free to drop your knowledge. Jim Carey comes to mind, maybe Andrew Hammond as well?
 

WATTAGE4451

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
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With last night's win- Binny is just the 5th netminder in NHL history to win 13 of his first 15 starts. I'm sifting through internet rubble to try and figure out who the other 4 are. If anyone can beat me to the punch feel free to drop your knowledge. Jim Carey comes to mind, maybe Andrew Hammond as well?
Im pretty sure that hammond is one of them.

He was 20-1-2 that year and i believe he started 13-0-2
 
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Brockon

Cautiously optimistic realist when caffeinated.
Aug 20, 2017
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Im pretty sure that hammond is one of them.

He was 20-1-2 that year and i believe he started 13-0-2

@ScratchCatFever

As per NHL.com

Jordan Binnington made 31 saves for his ninth straight victory. Binnington (13-1-1), joined Andrew Hammond (14-0-1), Patrick Lalime (13-1-1), Frederik Andersen (13-2-0), Bob Froese (13-1-1) and Wayne Thomas (13-1-1) as the sixth goalie in NHL history to win at least 13 of his first 15 NHL starts. He also became the 10th rookie goalie with a winning streak of at least nine games. Ross Brooks set the record of 12 with the 1973-74 Boston Bruins.

Facts and Figures: Blues, Lightning extend winning streaks
 
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