OT: Blues #1 goaltender Allen vs. Hutton?

[Alklha]

3-years more of Jake Allen?

Did Brodeur and Army do right choice going for Allen and not Elliott? Looking their stats they are pretty much same, they always have.

Is there word what Elliott was asking price and term if he would stay in Blues? I would take in heart beat Elliott contract 2.750mill.$ x 2-years then Jake Allen 4,350mill.$ x 4-years.

Difficult to compare Allen with the Blues and Elliott with the Flames & Flyers. Elliott isn't great, but he was a good fit here. I'm not sure why people seen that as a bad thing.

There wasn't any talk about what Elliott was looking for, and that will likely be down to Armstrong not having a serious discussion about it. We decided we couldn't afford to keep both, so then the decision isn't about money but about who they believed was the best option going forward. They chose Allen.

I still kind of think Armstrong finds a replacement for Allen, or you see Husso come up and challenge him for playing time.

JR said something about Armstrong not being happy with the situation, so we'll see. We should be able to afford both Allen and Raanta next season, so we have flexibility if we want to go down that road.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

JR said something about Armstrong not being happy with the situation, so we'll see. We should be able to afford both Allen and Raanta next season, so we have flexibility if we want to go down that road.

I remember that in the infamous Reader's Questionnaire thing he does. Raanta is who I was thinking of if they could some how trade Allen. I think Raanta and Husso would be a good tandem next season and Raanta wouldn't really cost you that much. Arizona or Calgary (Mike Smith has struggled) might take a shot on Allen.

 

[stl76]

Arizona would be stupid to not do everything they can to re-sign Raanta. I get they traded for Kuemper and maybe Raanta just doesn't want to play in AZ and is set on going to UFA. But I think there's a good chance he is not an option for us. My guess is that Raanta, in a delicious stroke of irony for Blues fans, re-signs in AZ for a deal similar to what Allen got (~4x4).

 

[Note Worthy]

Arizona would be stupid to not do everything they can to re-sign Raanta. I get they traded for Kuemper and maybe Raanta just doesn't want to play in AZ and is set on going to UFA. But I think there's a good chance he is not an option for us. My guess is that Raanta, in a delicious stroke of irony for Blues fans, re-signs in AZ for a deal similar to what Allen got (~4x4).

I actually agree. I think this is the most likely scenario.

 

[Note Worthy]

Coyotes have offered Antti Raanta multiyear contract extension

Welp there you go. Yotes offer Raanta a deal that "could be up to 4 years for 4 to 4.5 mil".

 

[PiggySmalls]

Someone else may know more about Raanta and his injury history. But it sure seemed like he was been out a lot this season. He has been exceptional in 2018 no doubt, just don’t want an injury prone goalie. I wouldn’t be against shaking the tree on him if his health is not a concern.

 

[Evocable Manager]

We just played a team with two good goalies. Maybe one of them might be up for grabs.

 

[Oberyn]

Allen + Thompson for Raanta

 

[Majorityof1]

We just played a team with two good goalies. Maybe one of them might be up for grabs.

One definitely is, mostly likely Grubauer. They also have a prospect in Samsanov coming up that they don't want to block much longer. However, Grubauer is still a RFA, so the price in trade will be somewhat high. He's the consolation prize if Raanta extends with Arizona. Raanta wouldn't cost trade assets since he can wait until July 1st and sign with whoever.

Allen + Thompson for Raanta

That's a lot to give up for a pending UFA, unless you view Allen as a negative value asset.

 

[stl76]

Coyotes have offered Antti Raanta multiyear contract extension

Welp there you go. Yotes offer Raanta a deal that "could be up to 4 years for 4 to 4.5 mil".

ayy lmao

 

[Ranksu]

Nobody doesn't want to take Allen's contract.

I think this goes same path like Lehterä. 1st (jets) + Allen for Raanta. Or 2019 1st round pick.

 

[Oberyn]

That's a lot to give up for a pending UFA, unless you view Allen as a negative value asset.

Honestly thought he was an RFA. In that case, ignore my post.

 

[Evocable Manager]

I have a sickening feeling DA will come out and say "Jake had a strong 8 games and we feel that's the goalie he is going forward. He's our guy."

Then he'll let Hutton walk and sign like Eddie Lack or some shit.

 

[Brian39]

If I were GM of the Caps, I wouldn't even consider trading Grubauer unless Thomas was part of the package (and I wouldn't even consider that from the Blues perspective). Holtby is having the worst season of his career (almost an identical SV% as Allen) and only has 2 years left on his deal after this one. Samsonov is a great prospect, but he just turned 21 and has been playing on KHL ice. It is unlikely they want him going straight from the KHL to the NHL at 21, especially since I don't think you can comfortably bank on Holtby returning to form. I think it is likely, but it's not a sure thing. Unless they get blown away with value, they should retain Grubaeur. If he beats Holtby for the job next season, you find a way to lock him up long term and do something with the final year of Holtby's deal. On the other hand, I don't think 1 season is enough to give up on a goalie like Holtby either.

They aren't in nearly the cap hell that they were in last year. They have 15 guys locked up and most their UFA/RFAs are lower cost guys. They need to spend money on D, but they should be able to afford the AAV required to give Grubaeur a 2 year deal instead of a 1 year deal. Eat the fact that you're spending $9ish mil on your goalies for a couple years, pick a long term starter based on how next season shakes out and then find a way out of the other contract when it still has a year left. That's more than you want to spend on goaltending in a perfect world, but it is better than moving Grubauer and then discovering Holtby doesn't have it anymore. They need to focus on winning over the next 2 years. Ovi is 33 next season and only has 3 years left on his deal. You can't piss away a season on poor goaltending.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Husso wasn’t listed so I didn’t vote.

 

[Ranksu]

I have a sickening feeling DA will come out and say "Jake had a strong 8 games and we feel that's the goalie he is going forward. He's our guy."

Then he'll let Hutton walk and sign like Eddie Lack or some ****.

Hard to say, but Army, Yeo they all have been vocals about their trust on Allen and confirm it Brodeur was one who wanted Army to choose Allen over to Elliott. Totally different then Lehterä failure.

I see we'll keep Allen and give him another change.

I don't believe Allen gets traded.

#1allenwetrust

 

[mk80]

Here's my thing, I'd rather first spend the money to upgrade the holes in our roster in front of Allen, as I think that's where its more important in the short term. Thinking realistically for an inexpensive option if Hutton was to go, how about Philipp Grubauer from the Caps, he's got some talk that he could be ready to take on a starting role elsewhere outside of Washington. Only problem is that he is an RFA this year so you'd have to trade for him, also Washington may want to keep him long term as Holby's replacement. Which leads me back to focusing on upgrading as much as we can in front of Allen so we can essentially carry ourselves with him in net full time.

 

[stl76]

It'd be interesting if we took a chance on a guy like Pavel Francouz, but I kind of doubt Armstrong would be open to such a bold/risky move. Francouz would be a UFA and would cost no assets to acquire other than cap space, which would be great obviously. No idea what he'd be looking for in a contract in terms of AAV. Other UFA's coming from the KHL have taken short term "prove it" deals in the past tho, which could work out timing-wise with Husso's development. Just a thought.

In reality, Armstrong seems to conservative of a GM to roll the dice on a move like this IMO.

 

[Majorityof1]

If I were GM of the Caps, I wouldn't even consider trading Grubauer unless Thomas was part of the package (and I wouldn't even consider that from the Blues perspective). Holtby is having the worst season of his career (almost an identical SV% as Allen) and only has 2 years left on his deal after this one. Samsonov is a great prospect, but he just turned 21 and has been playing on KHL ice. It is unlikely they want him going straight from the KHL to the NHL at 21, especially since I don't think you can comfortably bank on Holtby returning to form. I think it is likely, but it's not a sure thing. Unless they get blown away with value, they should retain Grubaeur. If he beats Holtby for the job next season, you find a way to lock him up long term and do something with the final year of Holtby's deal. On the other hand, I don't think 1 season is enough to give up on a goalie like Holtby either.

They aren't in nearly the cap hell that they were in last year. They have 15 guys locked up and most their UFA/RFAs are lower cost guys. They need to spend money on D, but they should be able to afford the AAV required to give Grubaeur a 2 year deal instead of a 1 year deal. Eat the fact that you're spending $9ish mil on your goalies for a couple years, pick a long term starter based on how next season shakes out and then find a way out of the other contract when it still has a year left. That's more than you want to spend on goaltending in a perfect world, but it is better than moving Grubauer and then discovering Holtby doesn't have it anymore. They need to focus on winning over the next 2 years. Ovi is 33 next season and only has 3 years left on his deal. You can't piss away a season on poor goaltending.

From the capitals perspective that makes a ton of sense if you can keep both in the short term to protect against uncertainty. However, what incentive does Grubauer have to sign a 2x $3M deal at this point? He took a 1 year, low cap hit deal for this year and he killed it. He'd already earned a chance to prove himself as a starter, except for having a Vezina winner ahead of him. He could command 4x$4M deal at this point, and be young enough at the end to sign a long-term career ending deal still. Even if he has to sit out this year to force the Caps hand, I think it would be financially in his best interest as opposed to signing another short-term deal for a team that is not going to commit to you.

Granted, I don't know what's wrong with Holtby this year, what Grubauer wants, and how much faith the caps have in Samsanov. There are lots of factors that play into it. I guess I shouldn't have said "definitely". But I think they will definitely entertain offers for both goalies and make a decision based on all the factors.

Here's my thing, I'd rather first spend the money to upgrade the holes in our roster in front of Allen, as I think that's where its more important in the short term. Thinking realistically for an inexpensive option if Hutton was to go, how about Philipp Grubauer from the Caps, he's got some talk that he could be ready to take on a starting role elsewhere outside of Washington. Only problem is that he is an RFA this year so you'd have to trade for him, also Washington may want to keep him long term as Holby's replacement. Which leads me back to focusing on upgrading as much as we can in front of Allen so we can essentially carry ourselves with him in net full time.

Ideally we would get Grubauer or Raanta for the same salary as Allen. We'd have to move Allen though. If we can't move Allen, we don't make a move and follow your strategy. So it won't cost any money either way. No way we get Grubauer for "cheap". He'd be a cheap starter but a very expensive back-up. I think he can command almost as much as Raanta, unless he signs a team friendly deal. Even though Raanta was technically the starter in Arizona, he didn't play too many more games than Grubauer.

 

[TruBlu]

Does anyone worry that we might give up Allen and he gets his shit together and becomes a top five goalie in the league? His numbers this year are poor, but he's been behind a very mediocre team. He's top notch against breakaways and shootouts.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Armstrong has a lot to prove this offseason.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Armstrong has a lot to prove this offseason.

I agree. However him and Bill have had a very good last two offseason’s in my opinion.

People keep forgetting that we’re in a re-tool. Our old core is mainly gone, and will be completely gone in the next two years at most. However, we also didn’t really get much out of a few drafts and that didn’t help it whatsoever. Forward wise, our future core two years ago was basically Tarasenko, Schwartz, Fabbri and that’s it. Starting next year, we’ll be opening an entire new window, and having a good offseason definitely would help that window open even more.

Really, we just need a solid top 6C, and a veteran top 6 RW on a short deal as we wait on the prospects to season. I see Army getting one UFA guy and a trade at the draft for the other. Maybe you upgrade Allen if you so choose as well.

 

[carter333167]

Does anyone worry that we might give up Allen and he gets his **** together and becomes a top five goalie in the league? His numbers this year are poor, but he's been behind a very mediocre team. He's top notch against breakaways and shootouts.

Defensively speaking, the Blues are not a "very mediocre team." The Blues are a favorable team for a goalie, which makes the drastic underperformance by Jake look even worse.

I think we give Husso a chance at #1 and, if we could somehow get Raanta, I would do that as well. We will not make the playoffs next year with a #1 goalie who cards a sub .910 save percentage and who goes through wild swings of consecutive games pulled, etc. .

 

[Thallis]

Defensively speaking, the Blues are not a "very mediocre team." The Blues are a favorable team for a goalie, which makes the drastic underperformance by Jake look even worse.

I think we give Husso a chance at #1 and, if we could somehow get Raanta, I would do that as well. We will not make the playoffs next year with a #1 goalie who cards a sub .910 save percentage and who goes through wild swings of consecutive games pulled, etc. .

If Jake had average stats this year, he'd have run away with the Jennings.

 

[Brian39]

Defensively speaking, the Blues are not a "very mediocre team." The Blues are a favorable team for a goalie, which makes the drastic underperformance by Jake look even worse.

I think we give Husso a chance at #1 and, if we could somehow get Raanta, I would do that as well. We will not make the playoffs next year with a #1 goalie who cards a sub .910 save percentage and who goes through wild swings of consecutive games pulled, etc. .

We suppress shots well and I'd generally agree that we are a 'favorable team' for a goalie. However, I don't think our defensive style meshes all that well with Allen's strength's and weaknesses. I think he is a better goalie when he faces a high volume of shots and his biggest struggle is finding the puck through traffic. Our style ends up keeping the shot total low with a greater percentage of shots coming from distance through traffic. Another issue I've had with our D this year is that when it breaks down it turns into a complete disaster with a ridiculously high percentage scoring chance. I think a good percentage of both goalies' worst SV% nights were less about a poor performance than they were only facing 22ish shots but seeing 3+ chances that go in 75+% of the time.

I'm not trying to pin everything on D. Allen was not good for a long stretch. I don't think his poor stretch even approached how bad he played last season when he essentially forgot how to play hockey, but it also lasted longer and we haven't seen the peak we saw down the stretch last year either. Honestly, I do believe we saw a different Allen this year in terms of consistency. He wasn't nearly as up and down as he was last year, but his middle ground hasn't been as good and it has led to worse overall numbers.