Blue Jays/MLB 2020 SZN

[Ritchie Valens]

It's not a managerial decision, it's a team culture and mantra. It's the way they have decided to put together a team, to draft, to sign, to trade, to scout, and to manage. Cash is just a piece of that culture and did exactly the way their playbook reads. I don't like it either, as I've always enjoyed coaches and managers reacting to a "feel" for a game when needed, but Tampa goes by analytics. Hard to argue with their approach, as they have the lowest payroll, or near the lowest, and made it to game 6 of the WS. Likely would not have got there without the model they used.

On the other hand, would Tampa have made the playoffs had a full 162 game season been played with their roster. Hard to say and we will never know the answer.

If this was a regular season game, use the blessed analytics, save the ace's arm, etc. Game 6 of the World Series, down in the series, your team is up a run in the 6th and your pitcher is pitching well enough to possibly throw a complete shutout and you pull him because the math said so is ridiculous.

 

[Cloned]

Cloned said, "They're annoying because they're hypocritical about it. They pulled this stuff years ago and now that it gets done against them Cash says "we have a whole stable of guys who throw 99. lol.

He said that after his Chapman threw at a couple of his guys. Nothing that any other manager would say, and some a lot worse. And then their own guys do it. All part of the game. Again, you really need to get over the bashing your Jays took at the hands of the Rays. My Yanks got beat by them, and I have respect for them. Show some class in defeat.

Nah, I've hated them for years. Call it irrational hatred if you want, it's the same hatred that I have for the Canucks, even though they have a "respectable" roster. It's only partly due to the fact that they beat the Jays; I hate the Texas Rangers too, and the Jays beat them like the Oilers used to beat the Flames.

Although in regards to the Rays vs. Yankees throwing feud, the Rays started it years ago and now that the Yankees did it back to them, Cash has to feign indignation. It's cheap and fake. He's OK with his team doing it, but as soon as it gets done to them, they can't handle it.

 

[rboomercat90]

To that, I quote ARod from last night:

"At a macro level, these front offices are really ruining our game," A-Rod said. "The Ivy Leaguers keep getting an F in this class called playoff baseball."

...and this:



...and this (he's quoting Joe Buck in this one)



This analytics bullshit is ruining baseball in my opinion.

It would be impossible for me to agree with this more than I already do. Such a shame that the Blue Jays are trying to model themselves after this organization and that they plucked the dumbest one out of there.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

It would be impossible for me to agree with this more than I already do. Such a shame that the Blue Jays are trying to model themselves after this organization and that they plucked the dumbest one out of there.

Lol, that is so true. My dad has never been so furious with the Jays' choices, especially the Montoyo hire. He's also not a fan of the analytics. He gets there's a place for it within the game but it's not the end-all, be-all of the game.

 

[BarDownBobo]

It would be impossible for me to agree with this more than I already do. Such a shame that the Blue Jays are trying to model themselves after this organization and that they plucked the dumbest one out of there.

I think it’s fair to take the full analytics based approach in the regular season, over 162 games the averages work in your favor more often than not. But when it comes to playoffs you’ve gotta be willing to adjust and have a lot more feel for the game. In the Rays case the numbers might suggest that batters see an uptick their third time up against Snell, but that doesn’t take into consideration that the top 3 Dodgers hitters were 0-6 with 6ks against him that game. I really hope between what happened with pulling Shoemaker early in Game 1 and seeing the result for the Rays that the Jays management will adjust their philosophy in that regard.

 

[Stoneman89]

On the other hand, would Tampa have made the playoffs had a full 162 game season been played with their roster. Hard to say and we will never know the answer.

If this was a regular season game, use the blessed analytics, save the ace's arm, etc. Game 6 of the World Series, down in the series, your team is up a run in the 6th and your pitcher is pitching well enough to possibly throw a complete shutout and you pull him because the math said so is ridiculous.

Not disagreeing with you at all. The feel for the game is being pushed out by some organizations as a way to try to even the field when you are stuck with a payroll that can't compete, and subsequent lack of talent. Billy Beane and the A's were the first to do this, with a modecum of success. My point was that Cash is merely a product of the organizational culture and just doing what they expect him to do.

 

[rboomercat90]

I think it’s fair to take the full analytics based approach in the regular season, over 162 games the averages work in your favor more often than not. But when it comes to playoffs you’ve gotta be willing to adjust and have a lot more feel for the game. In the Rays case the numbers might suggest that batters see an uptick their third time up against Snell, but that doesn’t take into consideration that the top 3 Dodgers hitters were 0-6 with 6ks against him that game. I really hope between what happened with pulling Shoemaker early in Game 1 and seeing the result for the Rays that the Jays management will adjust their philosophy in that regard.

Montoyo didn’t get that his strategy failed. He was beaming about its success after that game because they were only down 1 run after six innings. He seemed oblivious or maybe he had forgotten that it took all of two batters after Shoemaker was pulled for the Jays to fall behind. Any benefit of the doubt I had given him or hope I could have mustered for him was lost after that press conference. He may be a nice guy but he’s an idiot. Easy to see why he wasn’t climbing very high on the ladder in Tampa. Maybe you’re right and we’ll see an organizational shift in approach. I’d be surprised though because that would require some acceptance of being wrong and Shapiro doesn’t strike me as that type.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Not disagreeing with you at all. The feel for the game is being pushed out by some organizations as a way to try to even the field when you are stuck with a payroll that can't compete, and subsequent lack of talent. Billy Beane and the A's were the first to do this, with a modecum of success. My point was that Cash is merely a product of the organizational culture and just doing what they expect him to do.

I know you weren't, I apologize my reply came across that way. I didn't care one way or the other who won but to see how disgusted Snell was to get pulled and see the reliever blow it all within two batters was so frustrating to watch from a baseball fan perspective and I was a bit fired up about it still . I could only imagine how the players were feeling.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Stoneman89]

Good luck with that...