Blue Jays Discussion: Blue Jays baseball: now with 100% more wins!

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Bluelines

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Nov 17, 2013
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So you're using Price's wins to prop him up but discounting Happ's wins at the same time? :laugh:

29 wins from Happ/Estrada is much better than Price's 17 .. And at much less cost

BTW Price has as many wins as Happ so far this season ;)

A win is a win is a win... with the notable exception Price has been an elite pitcher for many many years and Happ just figured it out in the last 2 years. Signing Price would be an indication you are going with the sure thing, signing Happ is saying you want to gamble on a maybe because you cant (won't) spend on the for sure thing. Its just another indication that Shatkins didn't want to do anything obvious that would improve this team.

LOL yes same amount of wins but 300% more loses :)
 

Suntouchable13

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A win is a win is a win... with the notable exception Price has been an elite pitcher for many many years and Happ just figured it out in the last 2 years. Signing Price would be an indication you are going with the sure thing, signing Happ is saying you want to gamble on a maybe because you cant (won't) spend on the for sure thing. Its just another indication that Shatkins didn't want to do anything obvious that would improve this team.

LOL yes same amount of wins but 300% more loses :)

I wanted Price back and I am sure they did too (who wouldn't want a David Price?). It's just the price tag and term would have been too absurd to pay. Boston wanted to pay that price and now they are dealing with it.
 

Woodman19

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Jun 14, 2008
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A win is a win is a win... with the notable exception Price has been an elite pitcher for many many years and Happ just figured it out in the last 2 years. Signing Price would be an indication you are going with the sure thing, signing Happ is saying you want to gamble on a maybe because you cant (won't) spend on the for sure thing. Its just another indication that Shatkins didn't want to do anything obvious that would improve this team.

LOL yes same amount of wins but 300% more loses :)

Mathematically impossible :P. Can't multiply by 0
 

Bluelines

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Here's a fun question for you:

Pitcher A - 3-1, 4.71 ERA, 4.35 FIP
Pitcher B - 0-3, 3.00 ERA, 2.36 FIP

You need one of them to start a single game for you, and you KNOW that, in this game, the pitcher is going to replicate his average individual performance from this season. Which do you pick?

Is he righty or lefty? Is the line up I'm facing mostly righty or lefties? Which ball park are we pitching in? Are they ground-ball pitchers? Strike out pitchers? Is it a night or day game? How many IP so far in the season? What si each pitchers performance like vs those line ups in the past? I got more questions but hopefully you get the point.
 

AlienWorkShop

No, Ben! No!
Oct 30, 2004
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Is he righty or lefty? Is the line up I'm facing mostly righty or lefties? Which ball park are we pitching in? Are they ground-ball pitchers? Strike out pitchers? Is it a night or day game? How many IP so far in the season? What si each pitchers performance like vs those line ups in the past? I got more questions but hopefully you get the point.
Hey look at you using splits! Good on ya.
 

Bad News Benning

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A win is a win is a win... with the notable exception Price has been an elite pitcher for many many years and Happ just figured it out in the last 2 years. Signing Price would be an indication you are going with the sure thing, signing Happ is saying you want to gamble on a maybe because you cant (won't) spend on the for sure thing. Its just another indication that Shatkins didn't want to do anything obvious that would improve this team.

LOL yes same amount of wins but 300% more loses :)

If price was a blue jay you would be ripping the jays management for signing that contract anchor.

Spending big money on older free agents is a losing proposition. Have you not seen what has happened to the Phillies organization? Or all the terrible free agent contracts around baseball?
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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Is he righty or lefty? Is the line up I'm facing mostly righty or lefties? Which ball park are we pitching in? Are they ground-ball pitchers? Strike out pitchers? Is it a night or day game? How many IP so far in the season? What si each pitchers performance like vs those line ups in the past? I got more questions but hopefully you get the point.

If your point is that wins are completely useless in evaluating a pitcher, then hooray! We did it!

If it's not and you need more information, then let's assume literally everything you just asked is exactly equal between the two.
 

Bluelines

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Nov 17, 2013
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If price was a blue jay you would be ripping the jays management for signing that contract anchor.

Spending big money on older free agents is a losing proposition. Have you not seen what has happened to the Phillies organization? Or all the terrible free agent contracts around baseball?

Not to be glib what what was for first hint the fact I was criticizing team Shatkins for not addressing our teams age and declining abilities or the fact I criticized the fact Shatkins hasn't done much to build our farm?

I'm on the tear it down train, I've been there since last season and this season. I was by no means saying Shatkins made a mistake by skipping on Price. I'm happy they skipped on Price, the other poster was saying Shatkins has done plenty of things to improve this organization and my response was Shatkins did no obvious things to improve the team, Estrada and Happ were both gambles, Price would have been the sure thing option.

Tear it down!
 

Bluelines

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If your point is that wins are completely useless in evaluating a pitcher, then hooray! We did it!

If it's not and you need more information, then let's assume literally everything you just asked is exactly equal between the two.

OK lets assume the same scenario one guy has 30 wins and the other has 30 loses, which one do you pick?
 

Discoverer

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A win is a win is a win... with the notable exception Price has been an elite pitcher for many many years and Happ just figured it out in the last 2 years. Signing Price would be an indication you are going with the sure thing, signing Happ is saying you want to gamble on a maybe because you cant (won't) spend on the for sure thing. Its just another indication that Shatkins didn't want to do anything obvious that would improve this team.

LOL yes same amount of wins but 300% more loses :)

I feel like you have a really limited understanding of the structure of the organization if you're blaming management for not having the available funds to pay a player $217 million.

If I've misread, then I feel like you have a really limited understanding of the baseball decision-making process if you feel like the desire to field a competitive team is determined by management's willingness to spend $217 million on a 30-year-old starting pitcher.
 

phillipmike

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Really would have thought these David Price comments would be put to bed after his 2016 season followed up with his elbow scare.
 

Finlandia WOAT

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David Price would be the perfect solution to the offense dropping from 4th to 29th in runs generated.

Suck it Royals.
 

Bluelines

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I feel like you have a really limited understanding of the structure of the organization if you're blaming management for not having the available funds to pay a player $217 million.

If I've misread, then I feel like you have a really limited understanding of the baseball decision-making process if you feel like the desire to field a competitive team is determined by management's willingness to spend $217 million on a 30-year-old starting pitcher.

LOL, Rogers one of the largest corporations in Canada does not have the funds to pay Price $30 mil per season but they have the money to pay Melvin Upton $16.4 million to stay home, Tulo $20 mil to be perpetually on the DL, Estrada $14 mil to be an average pitcher, Bautista $18 mil to look really meanly at the umps, Martin $20 mil ... give me a freaking break if you want something there is ALWAYS a way to move money around to be able to afford it.

You didn't misread you misunderstood, I was not and am not on the sign Price bandwagon, I've been on the tear it down train since KC wooped us. This team was never a contender over the last 2 seasons, they were and are a pretender.

Simply put Shatkins has done zip , zilch, nada since the 2 became a pair and tehy are simply waiting for this team to bottom out before they do.
 

phillipmike

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LOL, Rogers one of the largest corporations in Canada does not have the funds to pay Price $30 mil per season but they have the money to pay Melvin Upton $16.4 million to stay home, Tulo $20 mil to be perpetually on the DL, Estrada $14 mil to be an average pitcher, Bautista $18 mil to look really meanly at the umps, Martin $20 mil ... give me a freaking break if you want something there is ALWAYS a way to move money around to be able to afford it.

You didn't misread you misunderstood, I was not and am not on the sign Price bandwagon, I've been on the tear it down train since KC wooped us. This team was never a contender over the last 2 seasons, they were and are a pretender.

Simply put Shatkins has done zip , zilch, nada since the 2 became a pair and tehy are simply waiting for this team to bottom out before they do.

Uneducated "fan" at its BEST.

Jays are paying Upton 1M to not play for them NOT 16.45M but im sure you will spin how that 1M is vital to the team's success.

The Padres are responsible for all but $1 million of his $16.45 million salary in 2017.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...e-melvin-upton-jr-put-closer-roberto-osuna-dl

Once again you have a problem with the Jays paying Tulo, Martin, Bautista, Estrada etc. but you are fine with paying 31M per to a 30 year old pitcher with elbow problems who has yet to throw a major league pitching in 2017? And the last ones he did throw were in an awful playoff start.
 

Bluelines

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Uneducated "fan" at its BEST.

Jays are paying Upton 1M to not play for them NOT 16.45M but im sure you will spin how that 1M is vital to the team's success.



http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...e-melvin-upton-jr-put-closer-roberto-osuna-dl

Once again you have a problem with the Jays paying Tulo, Martin, Bautista, Estrada etc. but you are fine with paying 31M per to a 30 year old pitcher with elbow problems who has yet to throw a major league pitching in 2017? And the last ones he did throw were in an awful playoff start.

Hey don't break your arm from patting yourself on your back too hard. Guess you cant trust the internet, it says 16.4 mil in retained salary.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/toronto-blue-jays/payroll/
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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Hey don't break your arm from patting yourself on your back too hard. Guess you cant trust the internet, it says 16.4 mil in retained salary.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/toronto-blue-jays/payroll/

It shows up on the Jays spreadsheet but San Diego paid us 15.45M to cover of that 16.45M.

---------------
Guess we shouldnt believe these sources either.

Toronto only owed Upton approximately $1 million of the $16.5 he is set to earn in 2017.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/221927028/roberto-osuna-to-dl-melvin-upton-jr-released/

The Blue Jays only have to pay $1 million of Upton’s salary this year.

http://jaysjournal.com/2017/04/02/report-blue-jays-release-melvin-upton-jr/

The Padres are responsible for all but $1 million of his $16.45 million salary.

http://www.tsn.ca/blue-jays-release-of-upton-jr-1.712899
 

Bluelines

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Nov 17, 2013
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Uneducated "fan" at its BEST.

Jays are paying Upton 1M to not play for them NOT 16.45M but im sure you will spin how that 1M is vital to the team's success.



http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...e-melvin-upton-jr-put-closer-roberto-osuna-dl

Once again you have a problem with the Jays paying Tulo, Martin, Bautista, Estrada etc. but you are fine with paying 31M per to a 30 year old pitcher with elbow problems who has yet to throw a major league pitching in 2017? And the last ones he did throw were in an awful playoff start.

A poster that cant read for comprehension at its best, did you miss the multiple post where I said I've been on the tear it down train for a couple of seasons or I DIDNT want the Jays to resign Price? Yeah dont let good reading skills get in the way of your next reply.


You didn't misread you misunderstood, I was not and am not on the sign Price bandwagon, I've been on the tear it down train since KC wooped us.
This team was never a contender over the last 2 seasons, they were and are a pretender.

Huh who would have though EFFECTIVE reading skills would have come in handy some day...ya might want to look into that.
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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A poster that cant read for comprehension at its best, did you miss the multiple post where I said I've been on the tear it down train for a couple of seasons or I DIDNT want the Jays to resign Price? Yeah dont let good reading skills get in the way of your next reply.



Huh who would have though EFFECTIVE reading skills would have come in handy some day...ya might want to look into that.

Whats the point about Rogers being able to afford Price and his 30M per year if you didnt want to sign him?

Zero sense!
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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LOL, Rogers one of the largest corporations in Canada does not have the funds to pay Price $30 mil per season but they have the money to pay Melvin Upton $16.4 million to stay home, Tulo $20 mil to be perpetually on the DL, Estrada $14 mil to be an average pitcher, Bautista $18 mil to look really meanly at the umps, Martin $20 mil ... give me a freaking break if you want something there is ALWAYS a way to move money around to be able to afford it.

The entire point of the paragraph you're responding to is that ownership =/= management and you responded by backing up your complaints about management with things that are determined by ownership. I mean... you understand why that's hilarious, right?

You didn't misread you misunderstood, I was not and am not on the sign Price bandwagon, I've been on the tear it down train since KC wooped us. This team was never a contender over the last 2 seasons, they were and are a pretender.

Are all teams who lose in the LCS pretenders, or just this one?
 

Woodman19

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Jun 14, 2008
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I love the complete disregard for how a corporation spends it's assets and the responsibilities to the shareholders.
 
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