Post-Game Talk: Blue Jackets @ Caps, 7:30PM

[Alexander the Gr8]

Burakovsky keeps getting a pass for his lack of production despite getting lots of ice time next to one of the best playmakers in the world, and he gets another pass for his terrible offensive zone penalty that cost us the game. He's the one who should be sitting. Dude brings nothing to the table.

 

[trick9]

If you go through each players each shift i'm sure you can spot bad plays from all of them.

Vrana is one of the few players where you catch something positive by doing that.

 

[maacoshark]

With Gruby in net, I have 0 confidence of us winning the game. I don’t understand what people see in him, he’s just a backup who was on a hot streak, happens all the time.

Yup the Devils went through the same thing and it isn't working for them. I hope the team plays great in front if Grubauer.

 

[g00n]

Its not about my opinion. Its about the opinion of the coaches. Like I said there is a reason his ice time is limited and reason he is a healthy scratch. That's why I say you guys don't get it. Whether you like Trotz or not if anyone here thinks they know more about the situation than he does, you are mistaken.
We all try to be arm chair coaches but at the end of the day they know more than we do.

Appeal to Authority fallacy.

Fans are not automatically wrong and coaches are not automatically right. I suspect you side with the coaches so much because you've been one (you are not the only one here) and some parents or fans have given you a hard time in the past, so you feel some resentment toward those of us you view as inferior in experience. Is that close?

 

[maacoshark]

Burakovsky keeps getting a pass for his lack of production despite getting lots of ice time next to one of the best playmakers in the world, and he gets another pass for his terrible offensive zone penalty that cost us the game. He's the one who should be sitting. Dude brings nothing to the table.

I'm not going to argue that. Vrana had a rough game but I like him more than Burakovsky. With Burakovsky its not just about lack of production. Too many individual plays that turn into turnovers at the offensive blue line.

 

[g00n]

If you go through each players each shift i'm sure you can spot bad plays from all of them.

Vrana is one of the few players where you catch something positive by doing that.

This is exactly how Tom Wilson's 2nd and 3rd year progressed.

 

[maacoshark]

Appeal to Authority fallacy.

Fans are not automatically wrong and coaches are not automatically right. I suspect you side with the coaches so much because you've been one (you are not the only one here) and some parents or fans have given you a hard time in the past, so you feel some resentment toward those of us you view as inferior in experience. Is that close?

I have played the game and yes I have coached it. So I probably see things differently than a lot of people here. When I watch a game I pick out mistakes whether it cost a goal or not. I think its obvious that I prefer a good fundamental game. That doesnt mean I don't like offense though. And with goaltenders I prefer goalies that are technically sound. That doesn't mean a weak technical goalie can't be good. Hasek had no technique but he kept the puck out of the net.
No I don't think you guys are inferior to me but I do think our knowledge is inferior to the coaches and GMs of the NHL. Coaches do make mistakes but they know how they want their players to play in their system.
And I don't always agree with Trotz. Not even sure I agree with how he has handled Vrana. I see why though. I totally disagree with the goaltending decision but who knows.

 

[maacoshark]

This is exactly how Tom Wilson's 2nd and 3rd year progressed.

And I'm sure Vrana will be a solid NHL player soon.

 

[g00n]

I have played the game and yes I have coached it. So I probably see things differently than a lot of people here. When I watch a game I pick out mistakes whether it cost a goal or not. I think its obvious that I prefer a good fundamental game. That doesnt mean I don't like offense though. And with goaltenders I prefer goalies that are technically sound. That doesn't mean a weak technical goalie can't be good. Hasek had no technique but he kept the puck out of the net.
No I don't think you guys are inferior to me but I do think our knowledge is inferior to the coaches and GMs of the NHL. Coaches do make mistakes but they know how they want their players to play in their system.
And I don't always agree with Trotz. Not even sure I agree with how he has handled Vrana. I see why though. I totally disagree with the goaltending decision but who knows.

You clearly don't respect the opinions expressed here and you've said so many, many times, even using your own experience as a way to discredit others. So I don't think you're being totally honest with yourself here.

Nor do I think you realize how often professionals get things wrong. Assuming that status automatically confers correctness is classic Appeal to Authority fallacy. Everyone makes mistakes and has blind spots. Everyone. Even NHL coaches. Sometimes you can be TOO CLOSE to a situation to see it clearly. Studies of "experts" repeatedly show this to be true. They are often blinded by their own anecdotal experiences or simply set in outmoded ways that do not present limitations to those with less "baggage". You can google the research or purchase the studes like I did if you want to read up on it.

 

[txpd]

You guys are to predictable. I posted last game after Vrana and TWO ridiculous turnovers that he was working on a scratch. Those weren't last of those nightmares that i saw in just the first half of the game that I saw.

So he gets scratched and you guys are imploding.

You guys have fun tonight

 

[g00n]

And I'm sure Vrana will be a solid NHL player soon.

Not the point, which was that even in Wilson's early years he was adding some positives to the team that were overlooked and rarely mentioned. It was only when he started scoring more that people began to take notice of the other little things he'd been doing right, rather than just focusing on the big hits and fights and muffed shots.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Lmao. I said the exact same thing about Vrana and people jumped allover me and came to his defence. He made a nice play on the DSP goal but other than that he was a liability. I commented about the terrible give away in front if our net on the same shift that ended up in a goal for DSP. I also stated that he was involved in both even strength goals against us.
There is a reason his ice time gets cut and he is a healthy scratch at times. But most here just dont see it.

Not everyone’s analysis is that deep.

 

[g00n]

As I noted in the playoff forum, Vrana is not credited with any turnovers last game. I know the stat can be a little subjective but if he was that obviously bad with the puck he should have at least one turnover.

Meanwhile, Kuzy had the most of any player with 3.

 

[maacoshark]

You clearly don't respect the opinions expressed here and you've said so many, many times, even using your own experience as a way to discredit others. So I don't think you're being totally honest with yourself here.

Nor do I think you realize how often professionals get things wrong. Assuming that status automatically confers correctness is classic Appeal to Authority fallacy. Everyone makes mistakes and has blind spots. Everyone. Even NHL coaches. Sometimes you can be TOO CLOSE to a situation to see it clearly. Studies of "experts" repeatedly show this to be true. They are often blinded by their own anecdotal experiences or simply set in outmoded ways that do not present limitations to those with less "baggage". You can google the research or purchase the studes like I did if you want to read up on it.

I do respect the opinions of others. I agree with some but not all of them. So what.
I know even professionals make mistakes but I'm not going to pretend that I know more than they do about it.

 

[SDBondra]

I think Trotz is trying to say Vrana had some turnovers and there's nothing he hates more than them. If it suffocates them offensively, so be it.

That would be the most hypocritical thing to ever come out of his mouth given that Orpik turns the puck over every time he’s pressured. Bench Orpik, you ape!

 

[maacoshark]

As I noted in the playoff forum, Vrana is not credited with any turnovers last game. I know the stat can be a little subjective but if he was that obviously bad with the puck he should have at least one turnover.

Meanwhile, Kuzy had the most of any player with 3.

Sometimes turnovers are actually credited as a take away by the opposing the player instead of a give away. I think they consider a give away an unforced turnover. I remember earlier in the year when Backstrom had a brutal turnover in his own end which directly resulted in a goal but he somehow wasn't credited with a turnover. Makes no sense to me. That's why using stats to judge a players performance doesn't always work.

 

[Brian23]

pretty much. i just feel like its the name of the player people care more about then the actions

during the regular season chiasson had games where he was better then vrana, yet this board called for chiasson to be scratched instead

This is wrong though. They're different players, so much so you can't look at them in a vacuum like that. If Chiasson has a hat trick you're not gonna start comparing him to Ovechkin are you?

Vrana has both potential and proving scoring upside while Chiasson had shown who and what he is. If the both of them played literally the exact same game on Thursday, the context of who they were as players would change the opinions of what they'd do going forward drastically.

 

[maacoshark]

That would be the most hypocritical thing to ever come out of his mouth given that Orpik turns the puck over every time he’s pressured. Bench Orpik, you ape!

Orpik is there for his his physical play and penalty killing. Gotta admit he looks like a fish out of water when he has the puck on his stick.

 

[maacoshark]

As I noted in the playoff forum, Vrana is not credited with any turnovers last game. I know the stat can be a little subjective but if he was that obviously bad with the puck he should have at least one turnover.

Meanwhile, Kuzy had the most of any player with 3.

Kuzy is one if those high risk high reward players. He does turn the puck over a lot and some of them can be bad. He also takes some dumb penalties. He can be a frustrating player to watch at times but his skills are sick. I'm sure he gets a pass because of his ability to gain the zone and create chances.

 

[maacoshark]

Not everyone’s analysis is that deep.

My apologies.

 

[Bananas]

The bottom line is we need Vrana, Bura, DSP, Chiasson, Connolly etc to play well in order to win. That means we’re most likely not going to win...unfortunately.

 

[Raikkonen]

Game is not even lost yet but the heads exploded already.

Will try to read less while watching.

PS: I've bet 5$ on DSP and Chiasson. Someone owes me the money. Someone at Heineken?

 

[peterthegreat12]

If you are tying to ice the slowest and least skilled line-up you can, then Trotz is a genius.

 

[trick9]

Kuzy is one if those high risk high reward players. He does turn the puck over a lot and some of them can be bad. He also takes some dumb penalties. He can be a frustrating player to watch at times but his skills are sick. I'm sure he gets a pass because of his ability to gain the zone and create chances.

Kuznetsov turns the puck over so much because they rely on him to gain the zone pretty much every time he steps onto the ice.

I wouldn't read into that too much. Few years back when PK Subban was still a Hab his giveaway numbers were ridiculous because their system in breakouts was him flipping the puck out of their zone to try and spring their forwards to a foot race.

 

[PuckBuddy]