"Blue collar" play in Buffalo and why it trumps skill in most fans' minds

moltenlava26

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
222
2
It's about playing the game the right way. People love Ott because you can count on him every game. Would I take Pavel D over Ott....um hell yeah, but would I take pominville over Ott...no. When your captain proclaims the best game they played all season is a game they not only lost, but got shutout in speaks volumes about the state of complacency with this core.
I love vanek and could care less if he came from smurf village. Score me 40, and don't hurt me on defense.
Hockey is a team sport which needs both skilled and physical players. Buffalo has never been short on skill, but this core lacks consistent effort and mental toughness.
You can keep super skilled stafford and ill take Ott...just sayin..
 

joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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Hamburg,NY
I'm going to echo sba's sentiment and add to it. I do believe that Grigorenko generated so much excitement and fans couldn't wait to see him because he was held in high regard leading up to the draft. The idea of elite skill is an intriguing prospect. But I've heard several people talk about Grigorenko as an underachieving euro since he joined the team - probably because his game isn't Ryan Getzlaf's.

I have an inkling that he's going to be a hated player when he cracks Buffalo's roster full time because he possesses elite skill and has size but doesn't play a physical brand of hockey.

You do realize you're setting up a built in excuse to whine when Grigs struggles. He IS a floater on the ice and thats been the common report from those that follow him in juniors. Its something he needs to work on. I do love that you didn't use Malkin as your counterpoint instead of Getzlaf. You're really working hard on this aren't you. :laugh:
 

sba

....
Mar 25, 2004
10,136
25
Buffalo, NY
I'm going to echo sba's sentiment and add to it. I do believe that Grigorenko generated so much excitement and fans couldn't wait to see him because he was held in high regard leading up to the draft. The idea of elite skill is an intriguing prospect. But I've heard several people talk about Grigorenko as an underachieving euro since he joined the team - probably because his game isn't Ryan Getzlaf's.

I have an inkling that he's going to be a hated player when he cracks Buffalo's roster full time because he possesses elite skill and has size but doesn't play a physical brand of hockey.

Right, and to be clear - I'm not saying there's a Euro bias. It's a very cut and dry way that the fanbase looks at players. SCORES A LOT or HITS A LOT and it pretty much ends there.

People thought Brian Campbell still sucked until the Umberger hit. Even though he was the key to a lethal power play that whole season, not to mention how great the rush was with him leading it.
 

struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
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Upstate NY
Case in point. This is simply not true.

Drury was higher regarded than Briere well prior to the '07 playoffs anyways.
His three goals in 17 games that postseason beg to differ. Of course, that was the result of him checking out halfway through the season because of Golisano/Quinn/Regier being morons, especially the former two, but he absolutely didn't play to potential those playoffs.
 

joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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Case in point. This is simply not true.

Drury was higher regarded than Briere well prior to the '07 playoffs anyways.

Fans loved Briere as well and lets not ****ing pretend Drury was some scrub either. You're trying too hard with this. I'm wondering if the "old friends" were just strawmen you created to start this thread. Their opinions are so complete devoid of any hockey knowledge its incredible.
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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You do realize you're setting up a built in excuse to whine when Grigs struggles. He IS a floater on the ice and thats been the common report from those that follow him in juniors. Its something he needs to work on. I do love that you didn't use Malkin as your counterpoint instead of Getzlaf. You're really working hard on this aren't you. :laugh:

What are you talking about? Working hard on what?

Grigorenko doesn't play a physical brand of hockey is all that was meant to imply. And how am I setting up a built-in excuse to whine when Grigorenko struggles? This thread isn't about Grigorenko. YOU brought him up.

You're reading far too much into what I'm saying.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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Hamburg,NY
What are you talking about? Working hard on what?

Grigorenko doesn't play a physical brand of hockey is all that was meant to imply. And how am I setting up a built-in excuse to whine when Grigorenko struggles? This thread isn't about Grigorenko. YOU brought him up.

You're reading far too much into what I'm saying.

Grigs has been compared to a poor man's Malkin at his high end but you went right to a good old Canadian boy (Getzlaf) to keep pushing the argument.

Yes I brought up Grigs because fans were excited about him coming and it (among many other examples) disproves that fans here dismiss Europeans. If the bias was as pervasive as some other keep arguing then Grigs would be dismissed before he even got here.
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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His three goals in 17 games that postseason beg to differ. Of course, that was the result of him checking out halfway through the season because of Golisano/Quinn/Regier being morons, especially the former two, but he absolutely didn't play to potential those playoffs.

Let's ignore the fact that he was just under a point-per-game player in those same playoffs.

Fans loved Briere as well and lets not ****ing pretend Drury was some scrub either. You're trying too hard with this. I'm wondering if the "old friends" were just strawmen you created to start this thread. Their opinions are so complete devoid of any hockey knowledge its incredible.

Where am I saying Drury is a scrub?

Stop putting words in my mouth. And no, they weren't made up. I made a thread because they were ****ing ridiculous, ignorant arguments. The ideas they expressed have roots that regard blue collar play in Buffalo. This isn't as hard as you're making it seem. Jesus Christ.
 
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struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
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Upstate NY
Also, the same fans giving Grigs **** are the ones hating on Hodgson because A) we traded "the next Milan Lucic" for him B) he doesn't hit and C) he sucks defensively matching up against shutdown units and top lines at 22.
 

moltenlava26

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
222
2
This team has lacked offensive creativity for years. Watch their power play sometime.

It's called lindy ruff and his hand picked coaching staff. Why vanek isn't in a stamkos PP setup confuses the crap out of me
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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Grigs has been compared to a poor man's Malkin at his high end but you went right to a good old Canadian boy (Getzlaf) to keep pushing the argument.

Because it's an idea often perpetuated by Buffalo fans. That because he doesn't play this style of hockey, he isn't good enough.

Yes I brought up Grigs because fans were excited about him coming and it (among many other examples) disproves that fans here dismiss Europeans. If the bias was as pervasive as some other keep arguing then Grigs would be dismissed before he even got here.

The original post wasn't even heavy on the topic of euro bashing. You're missing the point.
 

joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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Let's ignore the fact that he was just under a point-per-game player in those same playoffs.



Where am I saying Drury is a scrub?

Stop putting words in my mouth. And no, they weren't made up. I made a thread because they were ****ing ridiculous, arrogant arguments. The ideas they expressed have roots that regard blue collar play in Buffalo. This isn't as hard as you're making it seem. Jesus Christ.

Arrogant arguments? No they are uneducated and ill informed. Your indictment of an entire fan base based on the ignorance of a few of your old friends. Now that is arrogance.

In the context of this thread what is the point of bringing up Drury -vs- Briere? They were our two best players and if someone liked one over the other that is hardly a big deal nor does it signify favoring skill over hard work.
 

joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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Hamburg,NY
Because it's an idea often perpetuated by Buffalo fans. That because he doesn't play this style of hockey, he isn't good enough.



The original post wasn't even heavy on the topic of euro bashing. You're missing the point.

I'm not missing the point at all. I quoted someone else who has been going on about the Euro -vs NA thing. You chose to join that back and forth.
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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Arrogant arguments? No they are uneducated and ill informed. Your indictment of an entire fan base based on the ignorance of a few of your old friends. Now that is arrogance.

Meant ignorant. Furthermore, I'm not indicting the entire fan base. I read HFboards. I realize that not everybody shares that view. But there is undeniably a portion of this fan base that thinks that way.

In the context of this thread what is the point of bringing up Drury -vs- Briere? They were our two best players and if someone liked one over the other that is hardly a big deal nor does it signify all the nonsense you put forth from your old friends.

That you don't understand why Drury/Briere were brought up at all just validates my conclusion that you're entirely missing the point.
 

sba

....
Mar 25, 2004
10,136
25
Buffalo, NY
In the context of this thread what is the point of bringing up Drury -vs- Briere? They were our two best players and if someone liked one over the other that is hardly a big deal nor does it signify all the nonsense you put forth from your old friends.

I see the point of it, I don't think it's the best example of a comparison though. It's an "intangibles" argument.

I also don't think that anyone means the fans who post here, 90% of us are knowledgeable about hockey. I think this is driven at the WGR callers, etc - who make up the majority of the fanbase. Keep that in mind.
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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i see the point of it, i don't think it's the best example of a comparison though. It's an "intangibles" argument.

I also don't think that anyone means the fans who post here, 90% of us are knowledgeable about hockey. I think this is driven at the wgr callers, etc - who make up the majority of the fanbase. Keep that in mind.

100%
 

joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
78,462
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Hamburg,NY
Meant ignorant. Furthermore, I'm not indicting the entire fan base. I read HFboards. I realize that not everybody shares that view. But there is undeniably a portion of this fan base that thinks that way.

Of course there is and there is nothing remotely unique about this fan base in that regard

That you don't understand why Drury/Briere were brought up at all just validates my conclusion that you're entirely missing the point.

I'm not missing it at all. You dismiss Drury as being Briere's equal so by extension you feel fans liking him more means that don't appreciate talent and prefer harder working players. When in reality the two of them were equals in value to this team and together were the engine that made the team go. But thats a separate discussion.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
78,462
39,914
Hamburg,NY
I see the point of it, I don't think it's the best example of a comparison though. It's an "intangibles" argument.

I also don't think that anyone means the fans who post here, 90% of us are knowledgeable about hockey. I think this is driven at the WGR callers, etc - who make up the majority of the fanbase. Keep that in mind.

WGR callers ARE NOT the majority of the fan base. Why do people think this?
 

misterchainsaw

Preparing PHASE TWO!
Nov 3, 2005
31,809
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Rochester, NY
Of course there is and there is nothing remotely unique about this fan base in that regard



I'm not missing it at all. You dismiss Drury as being Briere's equal so by extension you feel fans liking him more means that don't appreciate talent and prefer harder working players. When in reality the two of them were equals in value to this team and together were the engine that made the team go. But thats a separate discussion.


I dismiss that too. It wasn't true; Briere was the better hockey player.
 

Daz28

Registered User
Nov 1, 2010
12,586
2,163
I think there's little merit in any of this. We've had Lala/Mogilny/Hawerchuck and Drury/Briere bracketing Peca/Ward/Varada, and all that really mattered was winning. I didn't like the skilled teams any more/less than the blue collar ones. Give me wins and I won't boo regardless if your skilled/hard-working.(lol).
 

sba

....
Mar 25, 2004
10,136
25
Buffalo, NY
WGR callers ARE NOT the majority of the fan base. Why do people think this?

Because lets say I'm friends with 25 different Sabres fans on Facebook.

Assume 5 people talk about the team like I do, having a greater understanding of the big picture, etc.
Assume 5 more are "fringe" fans, maybe watch a game here and there, own a jersey, etc.
The other 15 say the same dumb **** all the "WGR Callers" do.

It's just the way I've always seen things play out here. Same with the Bills. The callers themselves aren't the majority, right, they're as much of a minority as message board posters like us.

But the opinions they share are held by most fans I've ever dealt with.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
78,462
39,914
Hamburg,NY
Because lets say I'm friends with 25 different Sabres fans on Facebook.

Assume 5 people talk about the team like I do, having a greater understanding of the big picture, etc.
Assume 5 more are "fringe" fans, maybe watch a game here and there, own a jersey, etc.
The other 15 say the same dumb **** all the "WGR Callers" do.

It's just the way I've always seen things play out here. Same with the Bills. The callers themselves aren't the majority, right, they're as much of a minority as message board posters like us.

But the opinions they share are held by most fans I've ever dealt with.

Maybe I'm just lucky but I don't run across that many idiots when discussing the Sabres.
 

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