OT: Blue Bombers Thread 2.0 - Home Playoff Game, Nov 12, 330PM

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GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,769
Winnipeg
CFL is in it's strongest form in the past 20 years.

And no CFL market is an option for the NFL. Just won't ever happen. At all. It makes no sense for either side.

Well the NFL would make sense for Toronto, and Vancouver--because those cities have the population levels that the NFL would target. The problem is, Toronto or Vancouver likely won't support the NFL. Toronto it seems, has no passion for sports, other than the Leafs--the Argo's have never been a big draw there, and in relation to it's size--they never will be. A lot of people that live in Toronto, are transplants for jobs from other Canadian cities, and I believe this is a big factor as to why they have no passion for their football club. Also Toronto recognizes itself as an international City, and they consider the Argos a "bush league"--B team, and it's beneath them to support.

As for Vancouver-- I believe approximately 60-70 % is of Asian origin, and they don't support football. I understand that in China they really support basketball. It's funny how all these markets work. I was listening to an American sports radio program, and they were discussing the popularity of the NBA -comparing it to the NFL - and they thought the NBA had more potential, as it's such a popular sport in Asia.

In summary -- because of what I've written above, I don't think the NFL would have an interest in smaller Canadian markets--to expensive, and far to risky. It would have to be heavily subsidized, and not worth it. I can't see it happening, although I'd love the NFL to come intro Canada on a national level - "without Toronto." :)

Your right-unfortunately it makes "no sense" for either side-it's not a makeable deal-- "at this time."
 

LadyJet26

LETS GO BLUE!!!!!
Sep 6, 2004
8,832
718
Winnipeg, MB
Well the NFL would make sense for Toronto, and Vancouver--because those cities have the population levels that the NFL would target. The problem is, Toronto or Vancouver likely won't support the NFL. Toronto it seems, has no passion for sports, other than the Leafs--the Argo's have never been a big draw there, and in relation to it's size--they never will be. A lot of people that live in Toronto, are transplants for jobs from other Canadian cities, and I believe this is a big factor as to why they have no passion for their football club. Also Toronto recognizes itself as an international City, and they consider the Argos a "bush league"--B team, and it's beneath them to support.

As for Vancouver-- I believe approximately 60-70 % is of Asian origin, and they don't support football. I understand that in China they really support basketball. It's funny how all these markets work. I was listening to an American sports radio program, and they were discussing the popularity of the NBA -comparing it to the NFL - and they thought the NBA had more potential, as it's such a popular sport in Asia.

In summary -- because of what I've written above, I don't think the NFL would have an interest in smaller Canadian markets--to expensive, and far to risky. It would have to be heavily subsidized, and not worth it. I can't see it happening, although I'd love the NFL to come intro Canada on a national level - "without Toronto." :)

Your right-unfortunately it makes "no sense" for either side-it's not a makeable deal-- "at this time."

Vancouver being 60-70% Asian has nothing to do with that city supporting football. They only support teams when they win. The teams that they support the most: Whitecaps. Because soccer is universal.

The NFL will NEVER take over the CFL. The NFL gets their fodder from our league - where would they get these players if not for the CFL? The CFL is immensely popular. I wouldn't go and watch it if they were in the NFL with NFL rules. American football is BORING.

Everything you're saying also makes absolute no sense.
 
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GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,769
Winnipeg
Vancouver being 60-70% Asian has nothing to do with that city supporting football. They only support teams when they win. The teams that they support the most: Whitecaps. Because soccer is universal.

The NFL will NEVER take over the CFL. The NFL gets their fodder from our league - where would they get these players if not for the CFL? The CFL is immensely popular. I wouldn't go and watch it if they were in the NFL with NFL rules. American football is BORING.

Everything you're saying also makes absolute no sense.
_____________________________________________________

Hey Lady Jet--I like your enthusiasm :) - there should be more ardent supporters like you of the CFL - like it was in the 1960's. I do agree with you that Vancouver will only seem to support their team if their "winning"- and I also think it has a lot to do with the large Asian population.( could be wrong tho) Toronto is somewhat the same, but for different reasons.

I guess you don't want to look at the fact that Ottawa went broke only 8 years ago, and very low attendance in Toronto ( 11,000 per game) this year, and very low attendance in BC. It all spells trouble, and a real struggle to keep the league afloat. I sure wouldn't buy a CFL team.

There are "very bright spots" like Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary and Regina--and I wish the eastern cities would support their teams like Western cities.

I follow both the CFL and the NFL--and my friends are mostly NFLrs. I think the CFL will survive, and there are wealthy business people that grew up with the league and will support it. Guys like the Hamilton owner (Braley I think?)--who also owns the BC Lions I believe. Without guys like him, there could have been "big" trouble.

As a life long Winnipeger and supporter of the Bombers, I'd love to see the CFL grow, and be prosperous, and not just survive--but I think it's more of a survival thing. When you have these "new soccer" leagues "outdrawing" our so called established CFL teams--that's got to tell you something. When I see the Argos play and 3/4 of the stadium is "empty"--it's a scary thing. Also makes it no fun to watch, if the opposing team, just couldn't care less about their team-- why should I???

I do salute you for being a "supporter" of our CFL sports team Lady Jet--their should be more people like you. It's creates a good community spirit, and I truly admire your patriotic spirit.:)

Let's hope I'm "wrong" and the CFL enjoys a resurgence, and attendance and support starts to grow in Canadian eastern cities--and BC. The CFL is an age old tradition in Canada, and should remain a part of Canadian sports in the future.

PS-- I'd be very happy to eat crow, and say I was totally wrong, as I grew up with the CFL, and it's part of me, and the Canadian culture-and hope it thrives, and continues to be part of the Canadian sports landscape. We will see :huh: I'm on your side Lady Jet. :)
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
22,807
5,400
Winnipeg
The resurgence happened and you missed it. The league took bailout money from the NFL in the late 90's with most every team going broke in the early 00's. The league has come out of the dark era already, you are 15 years too late for the "end of the CFL" story.

Ottawa did not "go broke" 12 years ago. They were mismanaged by a pair of clowns who walked away rather than actually do their job. The fan support is great in Ottawa and they are fine with new good owners. Hamilton is not owned by Braley. 5 years ago Braley bailed out the CFL (he has owned Lions for a long time) by buying the Argos, but sold them shortly afterward. He is also selling the Lions now btw. Argos just got a big boost by being sold to MLSE btw, which will put them back on the map in Toronto. Montreal and Hamilton are solid "small" markets in CFL, dedicated fanbases. And your numbers aren't even close to accurate. Toronto averaged 14K per game (obviously still poor but if your "evidence" was so good why lie?). BC was at 20K.

The CFL is making really good money on their TV contract. They outdraw MLS on TV by a crazy factor. Sure Whitecaps and Toronto FC get boots through gate (at generally cheaper prices) but that is largely irrelevant to the overall health of the CFL. CFL has a big contract with TSN that is the #2 draw in Canada for TV.

If you were posting this stuff between 97-03 you might have a point. Now you are just a decade and half behind where the CFL is.
 
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GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,769
Winnipeg
The resurgence happened and you missed it. The league took bailout money from the NFL in the late 90's with most every team going broke in the early 00's. The league has come out of the dark era already, you are 15 years too late for the "end of the CFL" story.

Ottawa did not "go broke" 12 years ago. They were mismanaged by a pair of clowns who walked away rather than actually do their job. The fan support is great in Ottawa and they are fine with new good owners. Hamilton is not owned by Braley. 5 years ago Braley bailed out the CFL (he has owned Lions for a long time) by buying the Argos, but sold them shortly afterward. He is also selling the Lions now btw. Argos just got a big boost by being sold to MLSE btw, which will put them back on the map in Toronto. Montreal and Hamilton are solid "small" markets in CFL, dedicated fanbases. And your numbers aren't even close to accurate. Toronto averaged 14K per game (obviously still poor but if your "evidence" was so good why lie?). BC was at 20K.

The CFL is making really good money on their TV contract. They outdraw MLS on TV by a crazy factor. Sure Whitecaps and Toronto FC get boots through gate (at generally cheaper prices) but that is largely irrelevant to the overall health of the CFL. CFL has a big contract with TSN that is the #2 draw in Canada for TV.

If you were posting this stuff between 97-03 you might have a point. Now you are just a decade and half behind where the CFL is.

_____________________________________________________

Holden- you obviously way more knowledgeable than me, on the business side of the CFL. I just go by what I hear from the TV telecasts etc--like with Braley getting involved, and buying the Lions etc. I didn't know he was involved with the Argos--yikes-I sure wouldn't be. ( you say he sold them-"good for him")

It's good to know that MLSE has bought the Argos, and maybe that will help-hope so.

As for attendance figures, I just go by what I read on here, or what I hear on TV telecasts, and their reasonably close. If the Argo's averaged 14 K per game, as you say- that's still trouble for a city with 4-5 million people, and the 3rd largest city in North America.

What I see as a big difference maker is the way TSN handles the post game show with Matt Dunnigan and those guys. They add a lot to the telecasts, and should grow viewership. Good thing here !!!

Don't get me wrong here Holden--I'm not trying to disparage the CFL--I'd like to see it do well. When I see trouble like tons of empty seats, I have to acknowledge that, and it does make me wonder ???

I can tell your very knowledgeable , and I hope your right, that the CFL has righted itself and is progressing forward on a path of growth. Good to see good supporters like you. When I was young and Kenny Ploen and the Bombers were the only game in town- the CFL "was where it was at." Times have changed, but maybe under good management groups, it will start to grow and thrive again. You'll have to excuse me if some of my numbers are a little off--I'm not going to research them for hours.

BTW-- I am aware of the clowns that ran Ottawa into the ground - their long gone !!!

I should add-
you do a great job running this thread, and I wish there were more guys like you in Canada-- the CFL would be thriving. I wish you Happy Holidays in the forthcoming future.
 
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10Ducky10

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Jul 5, 2015
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Holden- you obviously way more knowledgeable than me, on the business side of the CFL. I just go by what I hear from the TV telecasts etc--like with Braley getting involved, and buying the Lions etc. I didn't know he was involved with the Argos--yikes-I sure wouldn't be. ( you say he sold them-"good for him"

It's good to know that MLSE has bought the Argos, and maybe that will help-hope so.

As for attendance figures, I just go by what I read on here, or what I hear on TV telecasts, and their reasonably close. If the Argo's averaged 14 K per game, as you say- that's still trouble for a city with 4-5 million people, and the 3rd largest city in North America.

What I see as a big difference maker is the way TSN handles the post game show with Matt Dunnigan and those guys. They add a lot to the telecasts, and should grow viewership.

Don't get me wrong here Holden--I'm not trying to disparage the CFL--I'd like to see it do well. When I see trouble like tons of empty seats, I have to acknowledge that, and it does make me wonder.

I can tell your very knowledgeable , and I hope your right, that the CFL has righted itself and is progressing forward on a path of growth. Good to see good supporters like you. When I was young and Kenny Pleon and the Bombers were the only game in town- the CFL "was where it was at." Times have changed, but maybe under good management groups, it will start to grow and thrive again.

BTW-- I am aware of the clowns that ran Ottawa into the ground - their long gone !!!
I think it's 5th largerst if you don't count Mexico but nice try...
 

csk

Registered User
Nov 5, 2015
2,682
269
Winnipeg, MB
Holden- you obviously way more knowledgeable than me, on the business side of the CFL. I just go by what I hear from the TV telecasts etc--like with Braley getting involved, and buying the Lions etc. I didn't know he was involved with the Argos--yikes-I sure wouldn't be. ( you say he sold them-"good for him"

It's good to know that MLSE has bought the Argos, and maybe that will help-hope so.

As for attendance figures, I just go by what I read on here, or what I hear on TV telecasts, and their reasonably close. If the Argo's averaged 14 K per game, as you say- that's still trouble for a city with 4-5 million people, and the 3rd largest city in North America.

What I see as a big difference maker is the way TSN handles the post game show with Matt Dunnigan and those guys. They add a lot to the telecasts, and should grow viewership.

Don't get me wrong here Holden--I'm not trying to disparage the CFL--I'd like to see it do well. When I see trouble like tons of empty seats, I have to acknowledge that, and it does make me wonder.

I can tell your very knowledgeable , and I hope your right, that the CFL has righted itself and is progressing forward on a path of growth. Good to see good supporters like you. When I was young and Kenny Pleon and the Bombers were the only game in town- the CFL "was where it was at." Times have changed, but maybe under good management groups, it will start to grow and thrive again.

BTW-- I am aware of the clowns that ran Ottawa into the ground - their long gone !!!

Just in the interest of accuracy, they're 7th:
(all #s are 2015)

1Mexico City20,892,724
2New York20,182,305
3Los Angeles13,340,068
4Chicago9,551,031
5Dallas–Fort Worth7,102,796
6Houston6,656,947
7Toronto6,129,934
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,769
Winnipeg
I think it's 5th largerst if you don't count Mexico but nice try...

Well- we're both wrong Ducky :) it's the 7-th largest city--thanks to CSK for his correction. I don't mind being wrong, and increasing my knowledge. I'm sure you've been quite happy with the solid play of Myer's lately.:) The Jet's are Rollinnn !!!

BTW- I was getting my "wrong info" from TV broadcasters.

Toronto at 6.1 million people is still large, and should be able to put 50,000 fans at a CFL game.
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,769
Winnipeg
Just in the interest of accuracy, they're 7th:
(all #s are 2015)

1Mexico City20,892,724
2New York20,182,305
3Los Angeles13,340,068
4Chicago9,551,031
5Dallas–Fort Worth7,102,796
6Houston6,656,947
7Toronto6,129,934
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
______________________________________________________

Hey CSK- Thanks for correcting me--it's always great to expand your knowledge base. I listen to these TV sports announcers, and take their word on these numbers.
Still Toronto is a very big city,(6.1 Mil) but small compared to New York or Mexico. Peace brother :thumbu:
 

nobody important

the pessimist returns
Jul 12, 2015
6,426
1,719
a quiet suburb
I called that a few weeks back. We need to grow game out east, have one team for them to cheer for. Call them the Maritime Mavs (all I could think of)

Substitute Halifax for Erie, I think you got a winner.

8649_erie_explosion-primary-2012.png


Or too soon, maybe? Sometimes, I think I could give Larry David a run for most offensive comedy. :D

And yes, @bustamente, of course they would win the Grey Cup before us. By law in Saskatchewan, you may not slaughter any animal without first invoking a curse against the Bombers. We are doomed.
 
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