OT: Blue Bombers Thread 2.0 - Home Playoff Game, Nov 12, 330PM

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Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
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What's your excuse?
CFL will never fold. NFL has bailed out the CFL in the past and would do it again. Even though the rules are different, the NFL still values the CFL as it keeps the talent pool up for scouting available players.

The North American model of countries combining leagues is very rare around the world. Most countries have their own leagues separate.

No reason the two can't continue to thrive together, but separately. They should work together to somehow improve officiating.
 
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GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
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A lot to pull out of your post, but this is just flat out wrong. It would be TERRIBLE for fans in Canada, and terrible for football in general.

Well, we disagree on many points Tom, as you seem to think things are impossible, and also that somehow "magically" these CFL owners are going to continue to eat these losses. Would you--if you were an owner ??? I strongly doubt it !!!

The Bottom Line Here-- if the NFL could expand into Canada with a CAP of $ 80 million like the NHL --then a merger would be possible- "very possible."

This Cap is the biggest problem- not the stadium costs etc. In the NFL you have "just quarterbacks" making around $ 25 million. There just is not the population density in cities in Canada, to support those kind of player salaries. Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver do have the population, but not the will to support the team. I don't know what the Cap is in the NFL, but it must be "hugely high"--like $ 200 mil ??? This is the reason, it would be very hard to do in smaller cities-- but it does work in Nashville, and Green Bay. I'm sure it could work here, if the "resolve" and passion were here to do it, and a reasonable Cap could be agreed upon ?? I doubt that will happen.

I appreciate your an avid CFL fan Tom-- but if you look at the CFL, and where it's heading financially-- I see "trouble" on the horizon. As a life long Winnipeger, I'd love to see the CFL flourish, but I see it going backwards. When Toronto ( your biggest city) draws an average of 13,500 fans, doesn't that tell you something ???, as well as Ottawa going broke just 8 years ago ??? These clubs run on "revenues"
 

Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
27,751
18,484
What's your excuse?
Well, we disagree on many points Tom, as you seem to think things are impossible, and also that somehow "magically" these CFL owners are going to continue to eat these losses. Would you--if you were an owner ??? I strongly doubt it !!!
The Bottom Line Here-- if the NFL could expand into Canada with a CAP of $ 80 million like the NHL --then a merger would be possible- "very possible."
This Cap is the biggest problem- not the stadium costs etc. In the NFL you have "just quarterbacks" making around $ 25 million. There just is not the population density in cities in Canada, to support those kind of player salaries. Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver do have the population, but not the will to support the team. I don't know what the Cap is in the NFL, but it must be "hugely high"--like $ 200 mil ??? This is the reason, it would be very hard to do in smaller cities-- but it does work in Nashville, and Green Bay. I'm sure it could work here, if the "resolve" and passion were here to do it, and a reasonable Cap could be agreed upon ?? I doubt that will happen.
I appreciate your an avid CFL fan Tom-- but if you look at the CFL, and where it's heading financially-- I see "trouble" on the horizon. As a life long Winnipeger, I'd love to see the CFL flourish, but I see it going backwards. When Toronto ( your biggest city) draws an average of 13,500 fans, doesn't that tell you something ???, as well as Ottawa going broke just 8 years ago ??? These clubs run on "revenues"

My post was 0 per cent about the viability of the CFL moving forward.

My post was 100 per cent about the CFL going away being bad for fans. And bad for football.

It's shocking that you think there is any way the NFL will merge with the CFL and keep WPG and SASK and HAM and both of EDM and CGY. If the NFL merges, then those cities will be on the outside looking in.
 

GNP

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My post was 0 per cent about the viability of the CFL moving forward.

My post was 100 per cent about the CFL going away being bad for fans. And bad for football.

It's shocking that you think there is any way the NFL will merge with the CFL and keep WPG and SASK and HAM and both of EDM and CGY. If the NFL merges, then those cities will be on the outside looking in.

I do agree with you here--with the CFL going away, or collapsing, it would be bad for sport in Canada, and also for the fans. Let's hope it can survive, and turn some things around--especially in the eastern cities.
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
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Also you in this very thread:

I used to be a big Bomber fan in the 1960's in the Bud Grant era -- but things have changed. At that time in history, the NFL and CFL were pretty much on par.

Times are "different now"--and I won't watch a CFL game unless the Bombers are playing, because it's part of me growing up. I won't watch a pathetic Argos game, turn on the TV- AND seeing the seats 3/4 empty, I tuneout "right away'- "no interest." I will watch CFL western games though, and enjoy them very much. I think Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa and Winnipeg could compete and beat some of the weaker NFL clubs--I know they can. ( good quarterbacks--of which 2-3 could make the NFL)

I prefer to watch the NFL- the best league in the world--"as do my friends" With that being said--I hope the CFL can somehow survive ?? but I see a tough struggle.

In a perfect world--I'd like to see the Bombers, Calgary, and Edmonton all joining the NFL, and the Eastern teams collapsing, until they prove ( like the Jets did) that they will financially support their football club, and "deserve to have one"--"send them a wakeup call"-- just like we got in Winnipeg, when the Jet's pulled out. Took a lot of effort to get the Jet's back.

I won't comment anymore on this subject, and for your sake, I hope the CFL can survive and keep all their great fans happy--including you Tom.:) You seem like a die hard passionate CFL fan, and there should be more guys like you.
 

HannuJ

Registered User
Nov 20, 2011
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Times are "different now"--and I won't watch a CFL game unless the Bombers are playing, because it's part of me growing up. I won't watch a pathetic Argos game, turn on the TV- AND seeing the seats 3/4 empty, I tuneout "right away'- "no interest."

i watch basketball and i watch baseball. not sure if you do. watch an Atlanta Hawks homegame. or...watch most baseball games not in New York, chicago or Boston. don't know about you, but i'm watching the product on the grass or hardwood, not the bums in the seat.

I think Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa and Winnipeg could compete and beat some of the weaker NFL clubs--I know they can. ( good quarterbacks--of which 2-3 could make the NFL)

one game is made to punish on a smaller field. the other game's made to scamper around a big field. one game emphasizes athletic QBs. the other emphasizes coach gameplan executers and focuses on height, not athleticism. you can't match them up.
I prefer to watch the NFL- the best league in the world

the NFL is the best revenue league in the world. it having the most superior product, when compared to the other major professional leagues, is strictly one's opinion. their on-field product and entertainment value per game would be considered by pundits to be inferior to that of hockey or basketball. the NFL exists as it does today because it is fueled by betting. it is the best betting league out there. but as an unbiased sportsfan, i'd rank it #5 in terms of product and entertainment.

NBA
NHL
cfl
MLB
NFL

i would suggest that it's pace is on par with baseball. and herein lies the NFL problem. it really is a boring league. go look at last week's box scores. Eli Manning passes for just over 100 yards and he's a top level qb. bills vs chiefs: neither qb passed for more than 200 yards. neither runningback ran for more than 50 yards. go through the box scores and most games and performances are duds. but the tv production value? amazing. the hype? amazing.

In a perfect world--I'd like to see the Bombers, Calgary, and Edmonton all joining the NFL,
that was a weird and random thing to wish for. but ok.
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
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i watch basketball and i watch baseball. not sure if you do. watch an Atlanta Hawks homegame. or...watch most baseball games not in New York, chicago or Boston. don't know about you, but i'm watching the product on the grass or hardwood, not the bums in the seat.



one game is made to punish on a smaller field. the other game's made to scamper around a big field. one game emphasizes athletic QBs. the other emphasizes coach gameplan executers and focuses on height, not athleticism. you can't match them up.


the NFL is the best revenue league in the world. it having the most superior product, when compared to the other major professional leagues, is strictly one's opinion. their on-field product and entertainment value per game would be considered by pundits to be inferior to that of hockey or basketball. the NFL exists as it does today because it is fueled by betting. it is the best betting league out there. but as an unbiased sportsfan, i'd rank it #5 in terms of product and entertainment.

NBA
NHL
cfl
MLB
NFL

i would suggest that it's pace is on par with baseball. and herein lies the NFL problem. it really is a boring league. go look at last week's box scores. Eli Manning passes for just over 100 yards and he's a top level qb. bills vs chiefs: neither qb passed for more than 200 yards. neither runningback ran for more than 50 yards. go through the box scores and most games and performances are duds. but the tv production value? amazing. the hype? amazing.


that was a weird and random thing to wish for. but ok.

Well Hannu, I myself don't watch baseball or NBA- basketball. I just can't see how anybody could like "basketball." I mean really if your tall- like 6'7 inches and you can run, it doesn't take much talent to jump a couple feet in the air, and hoop a score. I will say we're all different though, and everyone enjoys different sports. If you talk to a lot of Americans-"deep south"-they can't understand why people like hockey. I say everyone to their own, and watch what you enjoy.

As for the difference in the NFL and CFL-- you make a lot of good points, but nothing is carved in stone. Yes, it's played on a smaller field, but it still demands a lot of athleticism, and strength. The CFL game because it's only 3 downs, is more like a pitch and run game. Running is not emphasized that much. You say that the NFL emphasizes height, and generally your correct, but a lot of shorter QB's could do well, as is the case with Russel Wilson of Seattle. Also Doug Flutie did well in the NFL, so it depends on the player.

You are right that betting does really fuel interest in the NFL- I have no doubt about that, and "that's good." It keeps the interest up in a lot of games. The NFL though doesn't receive money from bettors or gaming houses, but the betting gets a lot of people tuning into the games, and they receive their money from television networks, and advertisers,( which depend on viewership) and gate attendance.

I just ran my post because I think the CFL is in trouble, and when I click on the TV and see the stands 3/4 empty--why would I care who won that game, when the home team fans couldn't care less who wins. It's a very "apathetic vacuum" the CFL is fighting, and are losing the war--especially with the bigger city Eastern clubs --like Toronto and Montreal. I question whether or not they will survive, and if so-- just how long can they eat these losses ???

Anyways--as a Winnipeger, and a great sports enthusiast like yourself, I guess I'll watch hockey -NHL, and also watch the NFL and CFL -- but generally only if the Bombers are playing. You can't spend your whole life watching sports, as you have to work and do other things. I'd love to see the CFL and NFL merge, but the chances of that happening anytime soon, is close to nil. Toronto would have the best chance, but the fans there I would not trust to attend an NFL game. The only loyalty I see Toronto fans giving is to the Maple Leafs, because it's a long standing tradition. I wonder why their not interested in, or have no passion at all for the Argos ??--like 13,000 people a game !!! That's a complete joke, and they don't deserve a team, but if someone wants to eat the losses--what can I say.

I think the thing with Toronto is that many of the people there are transplants for jobs etc, and their originally from other cities, and they don't support CFL (Argos-football,) and or baseball, I've heard they have attendance problems ??? I don't know how their attendance is for the Raptors-NBA ??--maybe it's good.

TO Fans are really passionate about the Maple Leafs though, and have always supported them, and I think tradition has a lot to do with it, and a lot of support is from people that grew up in Toronto, and not transplants from other cities.

My point initially was, that something has to be done to keep the CFL afloat, or try to "grow" the game here in Canada, and right now we're regressing backwards, and may soon see the CFL fold in the next 10 years or so--sad to see really. My suggestion was to try to merge the CFL with the NFL to prevent this.( very tough thing to do)
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
19,809
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Personally think the NFL game is one of the more boring sporting events one can watch, it's a very plodding and predictable. I've played Fantasy Football for 14 years and have not tuned into a single game in the last 4-5 years, the NFL has legions of "fans" that do nothing but dial surf looking at tickers for their fantasy players.

If anyone actually thinks it doesn't take extraordinary athleticism to move a 6'.8" 250 body the way Lebron James does, I just don't know what to say. Basketball players are freaks of nature and probably among the best athletes in the world when it comes to speed, strength, agility and coordination.

This thread had descended into madness.

Go Bombers!
 

TheDeuce

Halak, Ryder, and a second.
Feb 22, 2009
2,078
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Personally think the NFL game is one of the more boring sporting events one can watch, it's a very plodding and predictable. I've played Fantasy Football for 14 years and have not tuned into a single game in the last 4-5 years, the NFL has legions of "fans" that do nothing but dial surf looking at tickers for their fantasy players.

If anyone actually thinks it doesn't take extraordinary athleticism to move a 6'.8" 250 body the way Lebron James does, I just don't know what to say. Basketball players are freaks of nature and probably among the best athletes in the world when it comes to speed, strength, agility and coordination.

This thread had descended into madness.

Go Bombers!

100% agree. I've tried to watch the NFL but unless it's that one game in twenty that's actually entertaining it's dreadfully dull. Run run run punt. Run run pass punt. Watch multimillionaire athletes gather around a ball watching it come to a stop.

Now if there was a league merger that mandated the new league used CFL rules I'd be all over that! Chances of that happening are slightly worse than my suiting up for the Jets tomorrow evening.



m.
 
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Evil Little

Registered User
Jan 22, 2014
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Now if there was a league merger that mandated the new league used CFL rules I'd be all over that! Chances of that happening are slightly worse than my suiting up for the Jets tomorrow evening.

I agree that the CFL is a better game, but someone would die.

CFL game at NFL size and speed is a recipe for tragedy.
 

bustamente

Kinda Optimistic
Jun 29, 2015
40,800
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Outside Looking In
It's cold and snowy and CFL football is a long ways away but the Bombers resigned Stanley Bryant so I thought I would bump up this thread and maybe somebody could change the title, back to Bryant who really showed his worth last year and solidified the line along with Bond who may not be coming back, hearing 200k think Nichols is sleeping better tonight
 
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nobody important

the pessimist returns
Jul 12, 2015
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Too early for me to be thinking about football. Although an announcement thanking Richie Hall for his contributions here could change my mind.

I really would love to see them start the season a month earlier. I might even consider getting season tickets if I knew I would never have to sit out in the frigid cold.
 

bustamente

Kinda Optimistic
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DRCO5M-VwAAPIXG.jpg


Looks like the schedule has been bumped earlier by 2 weeks and only 1 Thursday game
 

BellMTSPlace

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
145
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I used to be a big Bomber fan in the 1960's in the Bud Grant era -- but things have changed. At that time in history, the NFL and CFL were pretty much on par.

Times are "different now"--and I won't watch a CFL game unless the Bombers are playing, because it's part of me growing up. I won't watch a pathetic Argos game, turn on the TV- AND seeing the seats 3/4 empty, I tuneout "right away'- "no interest." I will watch CFL western games though, and enjoy them very much. I think Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa and Winnipeg could compete and beat some of the weaker NFL clubs--I know they can. ( good quarterbacks--of which 2-3 could make the NFL)

I prefer to watch the NFL- the best league in the world--"as do my friends" With that being said--I hope the CFL can somehow survive ?? but I see a tough struggle.

In a perfect world--I'd like to see the Bombers, Calgary, and Edmonton all joining the NFL, and the Eastern teams collapsing, until they prove ( like the Jets did) that they will financially support their football club, and "deserve to have one"--"send them a wakeup call"-- just like we got in Winnipeg, when the Jet's pulled out. Took a lot of effort to get the Jet's back.

I won't comment anymore on this subject, and for your sake, I hope the CFL can survive and keep all their great fans happy--including you Tom.:) You seem like a die hard passionate CFL fan, and there should be more guys like you.



what are you talking about? hope the CFL can survive. Its #2 in Canada for popularity over the NFL, MLB. It generates the #2 corporate sponsorship in Canada and only #3 in Olympic years. It generates the majority of all media components in Canada. And you are asking if its going to survive?

Why don't you ask if the NHL is going to survive when Winnipeg only had 11,000 to a Jets game 20 years ago. The Argos generate lots of publicity in the city, its higher than average TV numbers prove this. And who cares if the Argos ever did fold. There are soon to be 9 other teams all doing well financially. When teams win, places like vancouver/montreal support. the Als were neck and neck with fans of the Canadiens during their Grey Cup years with popularity and exposure in the city. Same thing in Winnipeg, Calgary, Ottawa,etc

Rogers is now reportedly interested in broadcasting CFL games. And MLSE just bough the Argos. And the CFL ratings in the USA w/ zero american teams do extremely well.
 

BellMTSPlace

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
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Too early for me to be thinking about football. Although an announcement thanking Richie Hall for his contributions here could change my mind.

I really would love to see them start the season a month earlier. I might even consider getting season tickets if I knew I would never have to sit out in the frigid cold.

sitting out in the cold? so its no big deal for americans to sit out in much colder conditions but in winnipeg its a big deal? come on. Grey Cup in November will never change. Starting 1 month early is just dumb and they will regret it next season and go back to how it was. It will never work.
 

nobody important

the pessimist returns
Jul 12, 2015
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sitting out in the cold? so its no big deal for americans to sit out in much colder conditions but in winnipeg its a big deal? come on. Grey Cup in November will never change. Starting 1 month early is just dumb and they will regret it next season and go back to how it was. It will never work.

I didn't say it was a big deal in Winnipeg. I said it was a big deal for me. But thank you for thinking that I speak for an entire city. :laugh:
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
22,807
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Man 3 regular season games before Canada day. Interesting. It was only like 5-6 years ago Canada Day was when CFL would kick off their season. Doesn't look like the end date has changed though, still a late Nov 25th Grey Cup. 3 bye weeks. Love that Wade was actually talking about pushing for not having weekday games, I love it. Weekday games suck, much better to have it Friday night or Saturday. Should be a good one, Bombers will be back in the hunt next year for sure, already got lots of key pieces locked up.
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
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what are you talking about? hope the CFL can survive. Its #2 in Canada for popularity over the NFL, MLB. It generates the #2 corporate sponsorship in Canada and only #3 in Olympic years. It generates the majority of all media components in Canada. And you are asking if its going to survive?

Why don't you ask if the NHL is going to survive when Winnipeg only had 11,000 to a Jets game 20 years ago. The Argos generate lots of publicity in the city, its higher than average TV numbers prove this. And who cares if the Argos ever did fold. There are soon to be 9 other teams all doing well financially. When teams win, places like vancouver/montreal support. the Als were neck and neck with fans of the Canadiens during their Grey Cup years with popularity and exposure in the city. Same thing in Winnipeg, Calgary, Ottawa,etc

Rogers is now reportedly interested in broadcasting CFL games. And MLSE just bough the Argos. And the CFL ratings in the USA w/ zero american teams do extremely well.

____________________________________________________

Well, all I can say is--"I'd never buy the Argos -or take them for free"-they have a dispassionate and pathetic fan base, who don't care at all about the team. Eastern Canada is a big problem for the CFL --it's to bad really. Ottawa folded about 8-9 years ago, and Toronto draws next to zero fans out to the games-out of 4 million people. You'd have to be crazy to buy the Argos, unless your prepared to lose $ 2 million or so per year. I guess some people have nothing better to do with their money.

If our cities were bigger in Western Canada--I'd love to see the Western teams join the NFL--and screw the undeserving fans of the east. Seems they will only support hockey with any passion at all. That's my opinion, and the CFL has been continually struggling with this problem over the last 15 years.
 

Huffer

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
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Love that there is only 1 Thursday game, and I love that the schedule is a little longer with more rest for the players.
 

BellMTSPlace

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
145
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BellMTSPlace_____Downtown
____________________________________________________

Well, all I can say is--"I'd never buy the Argos -or take them for free"-they have a dispassionate and pathetic fan base, who don't care at all about the team. Eastern Canada is a big problem for the CFL --it's to bad really. Ottawa folded about 8-9 years ago, and Toronto draws next to zero fans out to the games-out of 4 million people. You'd have to be crazy to buy the Argos, unless your prepared to lose $ 2 million or so per year. I guess some people have nothing better to do with their money.

If our cities were bigger in Western Canada--I'd love to see the Western teams join the NFL--and screw the undeserving fans of the east. Seems they will only support hockey with any passion at all. That's my opinion, and the CFL has been continually struggling with this problem over the last 15 years.


Again. You make zero sense. And have zero knowledge of the topic. Ottawa is a football frenzy. I was at the GC and the week was unreal. Redblacks I say are bigger than the Sens right now. Its unbelievable. when you have good owners this is the result. The Alouettes are a big part of the city and have tons of great fans and are right behind the Habs average day to day media. Hamilton is a huge CFL town. It's one of the most underrated sports towns in the world. Great place to take a game. There are so many things about going to a Cats game that is unknown to so many others, and its too bad. Game day in Hamilton is pretty cool.

And all these cities are in the east.
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
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Again. You make zero sense. And have zero knowledge of the topic. Ottawa is a football frenzy. I was at the GC and the week was unreal. Redblacks I say are bigger than the Sens right now. Its unbelievable. when you have good owners this is the result. The Alouettes are a big part of the city and have tons of great fans and are right behind the Habs average day to day media. Hamilton is a huge CFL town. It's one of the most underrated sports towns in the world. Great place to take a game. There are so many things about going to a Cats game that is unknown to so many others, and its too bad. Game day in Hamilton is pretty cool.

And all these cities are in the east.
___________________________________________________

I guess we'll see what happens with the CFL going forward. I think it will "survive" but not flourish.
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
22,807
5,400
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___________________________________________________

I guess we'll see what happens with the CFL going forward. I think it will "survive" but not flourish.

CFL is in it's strongest form in the past 20 years. Your taking the oddest time to think they will have trouble. The CFL is doing really well right now, 4 of 5 west teams are on strong footing. Ottawa is on the rise and do well with have decent ownership. Montreal and Hamilton are average markets, but doing ok. Only BC and Toronto really struggle, but with the population bases they can turn it around if markets are well run. CFL is currently in the process of looking at expansion for 10th team. CFL is completely fine. I'm not sure what "flourish" the CFL could do, only so much you can do in a 33 million people market.

And no CFL market is an option for the NFL. Just won't ever happen. At all. It makes no sense for either side.
 
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