OT: Blue Bombers Thread 2.0 - Home Playoff Game, Nov 12, 330PM

[Ducky10]

Yep, football in Winnipeg, Edmonon, Regina and Calgary in December and January............what could possibly go wrong?

 

[GNP]

Yep, football in Winnipeg, Edmonon, Regina and Calgary in December and January............what could possibly go wrong?

You'd obviously have to convert the stadiums to covered domes, and it would work. Green Bay is just as cold as Winnipeg ( just about) with no covered stadium. You could also have schedules where Northern teams host games in the first half of the year.

The long and short of it is--I don't think the CFL will survive much longer. It's just not financially capable.

When we lost Ottawa--if Toronto or Montreal would have dropped out as well, in that period, I'm sure the CFL woulkd have folded. It's on very thin ice.

I want to see NFL Football, in covered domes in Canadian cities !!!

 

[Ducky10]

People have been saying the CFL is on thin ice for, well, about as long as the CFL has been around.

Your dreams are admirable but consider the realities of what you're proposing. Just start with stadium costs, Winnipeg just scraped together every nickel it could borrow from taxpayers to build a $100 million dollar bargain basement special. Calgary can't even get anyone to pony up for a new hockey arena, but it's going to be no problem to just pop up a couple of domed stadiums? Regina just opened a new field, what are they supposed to do with that?
This is just one of many, many impediments. I don't want to be a dream killer but you have to know this will never happen.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

You'd obviously have to convert the stadiums to covered domes

And if nothing else killed it, that's where the dream ends. There is no way that the smaller CFL markets could carry the cost of converting existing stadiums to covered stadiums, even given NFL revenue streams. Even in Toronto, the Skydome (sorry, Rogers f***ing Centre) is a bit of a white elephant for anything other than baseball.

 

[GNP]

People have been saying the CFL is on thin ice for, well, about as long as the CFL has been around.

Your dreams are admirable but consider the realities of what you're proposing. Just start with stadium costs, Winnipeg just scraped together every nickel it could borrow from taxpayers to build a $100 million dollar bargain basement special. Calgary can't even get anyone to pony up for a new hockey arena, but it's going to be no problem to just pop up a couple of domed stadiums? Regina just opened a new field, what are they supposed to do with that?
This is just one of many, many impediments. I don't want to be a dream killer but you have to know this will never happen.

And if nothing else killed it, that's where the dream ends. There is no way that the smaller CFL markets could carry the cost of converting existing stadiums to covered stadiums, even given NFL revenue streams. Even in Toronto, the Skydome (sorry, Rogers ****ing Centre) is a bit of a white elephant for anything other than baseball.

Well, I disagree with you guys--it could be done !!! there would be a lot of obstacles like Ducky says, especially the cost of retrofitting stadiums.(main cost problem) These costs could be amortized over 40 years-- much like financing for houses etc.

I think the market and support would be there for this NFL merge. There are small cities in the US like Nashville that do just fine.

It would take a lot of will, some extremely entreprenurial people, but this could be done, and may have to be done, if the CFL collapses. How long can you keep reviving CFL franchises by building new stadiums ??? After a while the novelty of the new stadium wears off, and then no attendance. A good example is BC place--at first when it opened it was packed, but now their lucky to get the bottom row filled out--about 20,000 people usually.

Most of my friends, including myself, only watch the NFL. I do watch the CFL if the Bombers are playing, because it's a tradition that goes back to the 1960's with me. If an Eastern team is playing though, I automatically switch the channels.

I really think my vision someday will come to fruition, and it be great to see, but it won't be easy, and will cost a lot of upfront money. The NFL is one of the richest sports leagues in the world, and could make this happen. It would be very exciting, and revive Football in Canada again.

 

[SensibleGuy]

lol...whoo boy! NFL merger with the CFL? Covered domes across Canada? wow...that's some high level fantasy stuff there.

move the start of the CFL season a few weeks or so earlier. Take advantage of nicer weather. Profit!...

 

[tacogeoff]

I personally am not a huge fan of the CFL. I will watch it though as it is football. I caught the second half of the Grey Cup game after the Rams/Saints game and it was entertaining and fun to watch them play in the snow.

in response to the CFL/NFL post above. The CFL will not collapse and no management group would be able to afford an NFL franchise in small Canadian cities. Maybe Toronto or Vancouver if there was interest but that is about it.

Also agree with SensibleGuy that the CFL season needs to move there schedule back to not only have better weather down the stretch but to increase casual viewership and have more NFL free weekends so a casual CFL fan like me will take the time to watch it more.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Maybe Toronto or Vancouver if there was interest but that is about it.

I wouldn't even trust Toronto to support it. There are a crap-ton of fans that go down to Buffalo to watch the Bills, and the first few games played in Toronto were well attended, but then attendance dropped off. I'm really not sure how well it would be supported here, though TO certainly has the population base, and has an appropriate stadium already.

It's an interesting idea, but so incredibly dangerous from a $$ standpoint that I doubt it would be entertained by anyone seriously.

 

[Spock]

If you think it cannot be done-"think again"--as Green Bay is a small city and packs in 70,000 people for games. Reason is, the "whole state" of Wisconsin supports the club, and I think the Canadian provinces would do the same.

There are 5.7 million people living in Wisconsin.

 

[tacogeoff]

I wouldn't even trust Toronto to support it. There are a crap-ton of fans that go down to Buffalo to watch the Bills, and the first few games played in Toronto were well attended, but then attendance dropped off. I'm really not sure how well it would be supported here, though TO certainly has the population base, and has an appropriate stadium already.

It's an interesting idea, but so incredibly dangerous from a $$ standpoint that I doubt it would be entertained by anyone seriously.

It really the only place in Canada that would be feasible based on sheer population numbers but there would have to be public interest .

I believe (correct me if I am wrong ) that the MLS soccer attendance outdraws the CFL average attendance so I cant see the NFL really doing that well in the Toronto and surrounding markets.

 

[Channelcat]

lol...whoo boy! NFL merger with the CFL? Covered domes across Canada? wow...that's some high level fantasy stuff there.

move the start of the CFL season a few weeks or so earlier. Take advantage of nicer weather. Profit!...

Thats what will happen. 2 weeks earlier.....problem solved. Indoor football sucks imo.

 

[TheDeuce]

lol...whoo boy! NFL merger with the CFL? Covered domes across Canada? wow...that's some high level fantasy stuff there.

move the start of the CFL season a few weeks or so earlier. Take advantage of nicer weather. Profit!...

I strongly suspect that this kind of effort would be resisted by CFL fans - hard core and casual alike. A lot of us, myself included, much prefer the Canadian game. Keep four-down football south of the border, we like our rouges and 150 yard fields.


m.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

It really the only place in Canada that would be feasible based on sheer population numbers but there would have to be public interest .

I believe (correct me if I am wrong ) that the MLS soccer attendance outdraws the CFL average attendance so I cant see the NFL really doing that well in the Toronto and surrounding markets.

The attendance for MLS has been steadily rising, and reached 27,085 last year. The Argo's attendance has been steadily dwindling: 13,913 last year, with a 10 year average of 22k - you can see that it's rapidly dropping. Not sure if it's the team (I don't follow the Argos), but MLS has about double the support in TO right now that the CFL has.

Unsure if this translates over to the NFL - from what I can tell from friends (and being at sports bars), NFL support is stronger here. All anecdotal of course, but there ya go. My $0.02.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

The CFL is really a "joke' of a league !! What other league has 2 years in a row of sub 500 teams winning the championship ??- Answer is none. This would "never" happen in the NFL or the NHL.

Toronto is the 3rd or 4th largest city in North America, and that city cannot even average over 16,000 fans per game--"that is pathetic" and Toronto doesn't deserve a winning team, with the apathetic fan base Toronto has. Greater Toronto area has 4-5 million people.

I'd like to see the CFL merge with the NFL, and it could be done on a revenue sharing basis, to help the smaller cities. I'm quite sure Winnipeg, Regina, and Edmonton could average at least 50,000 people per game. If this were done then -"maybe" the dispassionate fans of Toronto would show up ?

If you think it cannot be done-"think again"--as Green Bay is a small city and packs in 70,000 people for games. Reason is, the "whole state" of Wisconsin supports the club, and I think the Canadian provinces would do the same.

I'm surprised the CFL is still functional, but when we lost Ottawa, I was starting think, that was the beginning of the end. Something has to change here.

I guess the CFL will continue to "scrape by" and have the Eastern team's losses subsidized by their owners, but how long can that last ? It's only a matter of time, til it collapses.

I hope this is satire, because it just gave me a good laugh.

An NFL team would never work in WPG, and if they put one in here, a new league with Canadian rules would pop up and be more popular.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

The attendance for MLS has been steadily rising, and reached 27,085 last year. The Argo's attendance has been steadily dwindling: 13,913 last year, with a 10 year average of 22k - you can see that it's rapidly dropping. Not sure if it's the team (I don't follow the Argos), but MLS has about double the support in TO right now that the CFL has.

Unsure if this translates over to the NFL - from what I can tell from friends (and being at sports bars), NFL support is stronger here. All anecdotal of course, but there ya go. My $0.02.

Argos have TV numbers that TFC can only dream of at this point. Each franchise has what the other one wants

 

[nobody important]

Nothing like kicking a teammate when they're down.
Stamps’ McDaniel ticked over teammate Jorden’s costly fumble

 

[sipowicz]

Nothing like kicking a teammate when they're down.
Stamps’ McDaniel ticked over teammate Jorden’s costly fumble

Of course McDaniel too afraid to rip Bo-Levi about throwing the INT. that really cost them the game!

 

[Shakey Rustie]

The CFL is really a "joke' of a league !! What other league has 2 years in a row of sub 500 teams winning the championship ??- Answer is none. This would "never" happen in the NFL or the NHL.
..

Toronto was not sub 500 this year.

You'd obviously have to convert the stadiums to covered domes, and it would work. Green Bay is just as cold as Winnipeg ( just about) with no covered stadium. You could also have schedules where Northern teams host games in the first half of the year.
The long and short of it is--I don't think the CFL will survive much longer. It's just not financially capable.
When we lost Ottawa--if Toronto or Montreal would have dropped out as well, in that period, I'm sure the CFL woulkd have folded. It's on very thin ice.
I want to see NFL Football, in covered domes in Canadian cities !!!

Unfortunately a dome is not an option in Winnipeg. When Investors Group Field was being constructed, it was originally designed to have a removable roof so that the stadium could be used in the winter months by students for soccer. Truth North vetoed it because when the MTS Centre was built, they had a clause put in stating along the lines that the MTS Centre would be the only indoor stadium/arena to receive government funding, and that the proposed removable roof at Investors Group Field contravened said clause.

 

[Guardian17]

Of course McDaniel too afraid to rip Bo-Levi about throwing the INT. that really cost them the game!

Exactly, BLM cost them with the INT.

 

[Evil Little]

Thought Trestman lost his mind on the squib kick with under a minute left and only a 3 point lead, Stamps easily got into FG position and then more bad CFL coaching and Dickenson decides to go for it needlessly with good ol’boy Bo picked off.

Couldn’t be happier for a Ego driven Stamps loss!

Squib was the right call there. Trestman was playing for OT or better, which is what we all think Dickenson should have been doing.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

The CFL is really a "joke' of a league !! What other league has 2 years in a row of sub 500 teams winning the championship ??- Answer is none. This would "never" happen in the NFL or the NHL.

Toronto is the 3rd or 4th largest city in North America, and that city cannot even average over 16,000 fans per game--"that is pathetic" and Toronto doesn't deserve a winning team, with the apathetic fan base Toronto has. Greater Toronto area has 4-5 million people.

I'd like to see the CFL merge with the NFL, and it could be done on a revenue sharing basis, to help the smaller cities. I'm quite sure Winnipeg, Regina, and Edmonton could average at least 50,000 people per game. If this were done then -"maybe" the dispassionate fans of Toronto would show up ?

If you think it cannot be done-"think again"--as Green Bay is a small city and packs in 70,000 people for games. Reason is, the "whole state" of Wisconsin supports the club, and I think the Canadian provinces would do the same.

I'm surprised the CFL is still functional, but when we lost Ottawa, I was starting think, that was the beginning of the end. Something has to change here.

I guess the CFL will continue to "scrape by" and have the Eastern team's losses subsidized by their owners, but how long can that last ? It's only a matter of time, til it collapses.

Signed Avgard the Hockey Professor?

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Toronto was not sub 500 this year.



Unfortunately a dome is not an option in Winnipeg. When Investors Group Field was being constructed, it was originally designed to have a removable roof so that the stadium could be used in the winter months by students for soccer. Truth North vetoed it because when the MTS Centre was built, they had a clause put in stating along the lines that the MTS Centre would be the only indoor stadium/arena to receive government funding, and that the proposed removable roof at Investors Group Field contravened said clause.

The removable roof you are talking about for soccer was a bubble that would have covered the field only to allow IGF to be used for indoor soccer. The stands would not have been covered. This part of the project was quietly cancelled at some point during the building of the stadium. And that is fine as they built an indoor facility in Garden City. Best to have these structures spread out around the city.

As for the clause that True North had with the government that other covered facilities would not receive public funding as they would compete with them for concerts, it was only applicable to those of a similar size. A domed stadium seating 30,000 is not comparable to an arena seating 15,000 and would draw different concerts - we know there are very few acts that can draw crowds in excess of 15 - 20,000.

A domed stadium could have received funding from the province and the city regardless of True North's clause but the economics of it simply don't work - that is the primary reason you will not see a domed stadium anywhere on the prairies. $400 million and an annual operating cost of $10 - $20 million to heat and cool it throughout the year.

It would not draw any more large concerts either. All the big stadiums acts play in the spring, summer and fall when a domed stadium is not necessary. Just check out the stadium acts this past summer in North America - Metallica, Guns N Roses, U2, ColdPlay. They are not playing domed stadiums in the middle of winter in NA.

 

[GNP]

The attendance for MLS has been steadily rising, and reached 27,085 last year. The Argo's attendance has been steadily dwindling: 13,913 last year, with a 10 year average of 22k - you can see that it's rapidly dropping. Not sure if it's the team (I don't follow the Argos), but MLS has about double the support in TO right now that the CFL has.

Unsure if this translates over to the NFL - from what I can tell from friends (and being at sports bars), NFL support is stronger here. All anecdotal of course, but there ya go. My $0.02.

Some very interesting views here on NFL-CFL merger !!!

As YW says in above quote- the Argos had average attendance of 13,913 this year--so what does that tell you ??? How long are the owners going to eat these losses. In my opinion, it's only a matter of time. Also about 10 years ago the BC franchise was in financial trouble til the Hamilton owner took it over. Also Ottawa was broke and folded about 8 years ago due to low attendance levels. What direction is this league going in. I think it's heading toward extinction eventually, but may take 10-20 years for this to happen.

When the Jet's were sold back in the 1980's by Barry Schenkrow of Winnipeg for about $ 70 million, people said Winnipeg will "never" get an NHL franchise back. I always thought the Jet's would return, because the passion and "demand" for Hockey is here. I'll also go on record and say, I full well expect the Quebec Nordiques will return to Quebec, and be very successful like the Jets--and that's because there is passion for Hockey in Quebec.

The way I see this working is thru the construction of "multi-plexes" where a Hockey team shares the arena with a football team, and any other sport franchise. I was watching an LA Kings game or Sharks game and they were saying the hockey team splits the arena with an NBA basketball team, and some other sport team, and they also had "concerts there". This can make it sustainable.

Even though Toronto has the population base to support an NFL franchise, I'm not so sure they would--as Cited above by YW. They had NFL games, and at first they were well attended , then attendance dropped. Toronto is a sort of City, I just don't understand. They are crazy passionate about Leafs games, and could probably draw 40,000 people per game. ( been sold out for years) Yet they won't support football ?

This NFL / CFL merger would be great for the fans, but I do wonder if there is enough will, and enough motivation out there, to put the money up, to see if it would work ??? Somehow I don't think so. I do think the worst market would be the Eastern Canada markets, as they don't seem to support football. They are even supporting soccer in way greater numbers. I think your best chances would be in Winnipeg, Regina, and Calgary, and Edmonton. They support their football teams. It may be the Canadian cities / provinces are just to small. It is ironic though, that they are not to small to make the NHL work on a North American level. Another thing you have to consider is the dollar "exchange rates" and ours is about 20% less than the US dollar right now-makes it even tougher.

I should add to this- if the giant Edmonton mall can happen, and a huge cost--maybe a blending of this idea "huge covered" and heated areas, being supported by merchants of all kinds, and also with a "big sports indoor multi-plex added. This kind of thing, just might work. I don't know what the Edmonton mall costed, or who built it, but I can assure you they had plenty of detractors saying it would never work-- but it worked out "very well." Why couldn't you add a large "indoor sports multiplex" to it ???

I'd love to see an NFL/CFL merger -- but it may not be in my lifetime.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

This NFL / CFL merger would be great for the fans.

A lot to pull out of your post, but this is just flat out wrong. It would be TERRIBLE for fans in Canada, and terrible for football in general.

 

[razorsedge]

CFL will never fold. NFL has bailed out the CFL in the past and would do it again. Even though the rules are different, the NFL still values the CFL as it keeps the talent pool up for scouting available players.