Bloody brilliant move by the owners cancelling the draft...

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by shayne, Mar 24, 2005.

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  1. shayne

    shayne Registered User

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    I may not like it ( i looove the draft and look forward to the Hockey news and the event that is the draft) but i think the PA beleives in pressure points and the crosby thing was probably one of them.
    KABOOM, bye bye pressure point!!

    I may not like Bettman but he has outplayed Goodenow as far as the chess match of collective bargaining goes.

    I was surprise but i think it was a briallant move by the league to take away the pressure point from the players. The other example of the NHL outwitting the PA is the lack of the dropdead date, it must have drove Goodnow and the players nutting waiting and waiting.
     
  2. ACC1224

    ACC1224 Registered User

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    It's not cancelled. Just won't be held in Ottawa as planned.
     
  3. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Are you hearing any FAT LADY singing ?? .. because that is the saying of a sign when this is over ..

    Until we have an ending we do not know how individual events effected the outcome ..

    Cancelling the Live draft may have been in the NHLPA plan all along be stalling on signing a NEW CBA .. The NHL will have a big mess with players rights previous and present if June comes and goes with not draft ..

    While NO CBA exists .. Restricted , Drafted , Qualifying offers .. everything in the old CBA timeline will come and go and open a BIG CAN of worms .. Players and Agents may take these issues to court and fight for UFA .. Lots of articles on that already published ..

    So cancelling the live draft does have an effect but more so on the city of Ottawa and Revenue then anything else IMO .. The NHLPA gains nothing from the Draft really $$ wise or other ..and if the whole draft class is ruled UFA's then the bidding War and frenzy to get these players signed once a new CBA is finalized may be far better for the NHLPA in contracts and the NHL in FAN excitement ..

    In fact the cancelling of the Draft may have Replacement player implications .. The NHL may try to use these young players and once drafted an members of the NHLPA they are no longer to use them in all scenarios ..
     
  4. cram

    cram Registered User

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    And you honestly think that the league would not address this year's eligible draftees in any new CBA they eventually sign?

    I keep reading this sort of thing, that the top guys will try and declare themselves as free agents, wouldn't the NHLPA not be able to certify them as rightful PA members if a clause specifically dealing with these elegible players is put in in any new CBA?
     
  5. DJmastamind

    DJmastamind Registered User

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    If they cancelled the draft as a way to use the draft eligiable players as replacements, then that was a great move on the NHL' s part. If NOT, however i fear that canceling the draft would have more damaging effect then canceling the season did for the fan's.

    Looking at it from a fan's point of view.... :banghead: you get the point.
     
  6. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Absolutely a draft is part of a CBA .. but it has to be agreed upon by both the NHL and NHLPA ... In this case if the draft class can earn more money as UFA rather then Entry level Contracts why would the NHLPA not support UFA .. but mostly I think this has to do with timing .. many players like say Crosby may want to turn pro .. With no draft they are limited in their options .. This includes the previous drafts as well .. If September comes and hockey begins in other leagues then the players may have gone to court in the summer to have their status ruled on .. Any future CBA after that time can't change history if it occurs after that point ..

    Also just for clarification on your second point .. Players do not become NHLPA members until they have officially played their very first game in the NHL .. Then they are automatically enroled in the Union and Union Fees comes off their first Pay Cheque until that time drafted or not, they are not members so they wouldn't be certified .. Players like Alex Ovechkin and Jeff Carter or Al Montoya even while they have been drafted are not voting members of a current NHLPA ..
     
  7. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    I think other then the obvious Reservation issues to the city of Ottawa and planning the event and the unlikelihood of a CBA in time .. It was really designed to keep the focus on the CBA and the talks and not let all the media hype be focussed on the June entry draft .. You say it at both the Owners and NHLPA meetings .. The first question was almost always .. WHAT ABOUT THE JUNE DRAFT?? ... To both sides its not really a big event , its a Fans event and a players event more so then anything else ..

    But if it postponed the NHL could use it at a later date to CREATE FAN EXCITEMENT and interest after a long work stoppage ..

     
  8. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    I think that it was about the hotel rooms and reservations for hundreds of rooms having to be paid for rather than brilliant strategy.

    However it is simply :lol that all reports out of Goodenow's and the NHLPA's meeting were about how much pressure the players had on the owners because the owners were desperate to have a draft in June. No, I do not think that the owners were brilliant in cancelling the draft, merely doing what had to be done because of reservation deadlines, but the players, in thinking that was the dagger to the owner's heart that would make them cave, are yet again wearing the hat of the :dunce:
     
  9. syc

    syc Registered User

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    We lost an entire season because of 4 million dollars. I don't see how you could possibly think Bettman is winning.

    Once this is all settled Bettman will be lucky to have a job in the NHL.
     
  10. mooseOAK*

    mooseOAK* Guest

    Yes, a mere 4 million dollars. Chump change.
     
  11. trickster

    trickster Registered User

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    Absolutely - this takes a bargaining chip away from the NHLPA and places it securely in the grasp of the NHL who can bring it out and use it when they want it... Once the agreement is signed, it will be another boulder in the landslide of excitement that will repair a lot of the damage that has been done.
     
  12. kerrly

    kerrly Registered User

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    If you really think that the difference was $4m only, then you have some reading to do about the situation.
     
  13. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Cancelling it (which is out of both sides control anyways with no CBA) also hurts the NHL Owners.

    Owners are currently trying to raise Season ticket money and sponsors and save TV deals etc ..

    You don't think an owner would have a much easier time doing that IF he had just selected Crosby in the Draft ??

    Sure it takes something the NHLPA can use against the NHL as a pressure point .. but post phoning it just decreases the opportunity of a Summer CBA and all this nonsense begins again in September with a lockout or replacement players ..

    Also in a recent interview with Crosby and his parents ..they said it was still their dream to go through the Draft process and have your name called and walk up to the stage to put on a team jersey .. If that is taking away from him now he may in fact be more inclined to have his agent investigate the court system and be ruled an UFA ..So at least he can pick his team of choice to play for .. and as a UFA could cost far more to the NHL and its teams in Salary then Entry level contracts might ...

    So this has repercussions on both sides .. not just one .. IMO ..
     
  14. Russian Fan

    Russian Fan Registered User

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    Then Kerrly it all depends how you see it. I know the difference is 37,5 vs 52,5 but it could have been negotiated between 42,5 & 46M$ at that time.

    I never believe Bettman with those ''magnet cap'' or those 4 millions times 30 = 120M$ apart theory.

    Both sides play this thing badly for the fans. It's all about not letting you guard down.

    very sad
     
  15. alecfromtherock

    alecfromtherock Registered User

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    A bidding war under a salary cap system seems to be a paradox Messenger.

    When a team can not spend over $X how can they offer $(X+1)?

    They could offer X+1 but you would need a X-1 for the equilibrium.

    Veteran/current players would see their salaries(and jobs) take a hit for some young upstart’s in a UFA world.

    To protect their own interests($) current NHLPA members almost have to agree to the 850K rookie salary cap proposed by the NHL.

    Salaries are going to have to go down under any salary cap system, veteran players will be hit twice as hard if the draftees are deemed UFA.
     
  16. cram

    cram Registered User

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    You see, this is where this gets cloudy for me, how could they get a ruling on something that doesn't exist, how can they go to court and get ruled free agents if there is no NHL to play in, or a CBA in place to be ruled upon..I mean if we're talking about the present, all players not under an NHL contract are realistically free agents allowed to play in any league that will allow them to, pro, minor, beer league. The NHL nor the NHLPA have any governance over these kids, they can do or play anywhere they want....
     
  17. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    Never said that the owners faced no reprecussions from this or any other decision. However it was the players, and Goodenow specifically, who said that the 'pressure' was on the owners because of their 'need' to hold a June draft. Apparently, as I said, they are wearing the :dunce: once more . . . it seems to be in fashion this year in hockey, Goodenow just seems to wear the bigger hat than most.
     
  18. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Lots of answers to your questions .. but until a new CBA is in place it would be all about quess work to know how each effects a CAP but ..

    Possible options to consider to make cap room could include ..
    • Early Retirement packages
    • Buyouts
    • Injuries and Injury Reserve
    • 2 way contracts that allow team to send a contract to the minors
    • Not resigning a RFA and letting him walk by not Qualifying him
    • Trades
    • NHL waivers and the waiver draft
    • Contract Regotiations with current players
    • Defereed money in extended deals.
    • Performance bonus or team bonuses
    • Paying fines and penalties for Cap overages
    • Reverse Salary Arbitration (Owner taking player have contract reduced).
    • etc etc ..
    Owners do all their UFA buying and spending in July and August and need to be under the CAP amount by the first day of the Regular season in October .. until that time many many options are available to a team to free up cap room.

    With young players its even easier as the team could sign him to a big $$$ contract but because of his age could simply let him start the year on the Farm team or send him back to Junior age permitting and free up cap space at a later date .. ie. Vancouver could outbid everyone for Gilbert Brule services if he was a UFA .. then keep him in the farm system or junior system until the time is right .. No big deal at all .. A big market older team like Toronto could go crazy like this .. Sign lots of top prospects and then let their roster turn over in a year or two and have lots of cap room .. Big Market teams would love the opportunity to get at top prospects, that they usually don't get as they draft late ..

    All of which do not prevent a bidding war from occuring for a players services ..
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2005
  19. mooseOAK*

    mooseOAK* Guest

    You have to believe what Bettman says about the magnet because whatever the maximum cap is the NHLPA and the agents will use every resource available to them to get to that number.
     
  20. Russian Fan

    Russian Fan Registered User

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    stop putting all the blame to the agent, Goodenow & the PA.

    There's the other side who sign contract & even offer the contracts.

    If you can't have a budget, then you should'nt be a GM or an owner.

    It just stupid that you blame always the other side.

    So you want an idiot proof CAP & the PA's should just pay for it ? Come on , be realistic here.
     
  21. kerrly

    kerrly Registered User

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    Thats speculation on what it could have been negotiated too and nothing more. $42.5m and a $49m soft cap or $53.9m hard cap are as close as we ever came. Plus what I was referring too in being further apart than we thought in that case was point #7 in the NHLPA's proposal and teams luxury taxes being credited as revenue sharing, both sneaky loopholes, which were not made as aware to the bulk of the public showing how far they actually were apart.
     
  22. mooseOAK*

    mooseOAK* Guest

    I am not blaming the agents, Goodenow, nor the NHLPA for getting the maximum amount of money that they can. That is part of their jobs and the reason that they exist in the first place.

    On the subject of budget, that is what the league is trying to do with a new CBA. Set a a mutually agreed upon budget.
     
  23. FlyersFan10*

    FlyersFan10* Guest

    Well, I just think that this was a terrible move by the league. The draft is always about the young kids getting an opportunity to shine on their most important day. The NHL took that away from the kids as means of dispute with the NHLPA. I just can't see any benefit from this at all. So they reach an agreement and have a draft via teleconference and Crosby gets picked. Whoopty do. The NHL BLEW a marketing gold mine here by dropping the draft. And that's why the NHL will ALWAYS be a bush league. They never think about the greater good. And don't believe for one second that this impasse is about the greater good. This impasse is about eight cheapwad owners who want to maximize profits at the expense of their fans and have a system in place that will prevent them from losing money for making stupid moves.

    As much as I dislike the NHLPA for being somewhat stubborn, the facts are that the NHLPA has bent over like cheap hooker to try to appease the owners. And don't kid yourself. If the NHL ever goes towards declaring an impasse, there will be NO way that one is declared.

    I've said all along and I'll say it again. The only way to get this thing fixed is by binding arbitration. And if nobody fears the outcome and they feel they have a strong case in binding arbitration, then it shouldn't be feared. Yet both sides refuse binding arbitration which means that there's something to hide. For the NHLPA, it's that the losses are more significant than what they believe and for the NHL, it's that their report on the losses are over exaggerated.
     
  24. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Set a a mutually agreed upon budget??

    League has a funny way of showing that by moving towards Imapsse and Implementation in order to put their own self imposed CBA in place ..

    Maybe I'm just reading to much into Mutually agreed upon .. !!!!
     
  25. Drury_Sakic

    Drury_Sakic Registered User

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    For the record..

    Who here thinks that more than 6-7 teams would have spent up to 45 million... Heck..Even 42.5 million...?

    I bet if we held a poll, the numbers would be so lopsided with that view.... There is no way.. NO WAY that more than 6-7 teams would spend to a cap..Max at one given time MIGHT be 10... Most would hang around the 30-35 million range on any given sunday...

    :soap:

    Now that I said that.... it was not just about 4 million dollars... It was about the little(big) issues like arbitration and crap...(not to say if the cap was not higher, they may have given more on the little things)..

    ;)
     
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