Proposal: Blockbuster: EDM + OTT

Seachd

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
24,937
8,946
We were discussing options for next summer. If you can't keep up with the conversation, better not try to join in at all.

How’s this for keeping up? Your proposal sucks out loud.

Are you going to bother explaining why any team would trade assets like that just for pending free agents for the purpose of “bringing in win-now talent” with the cap space they leave behind the following summer?

You can’t be serious.
 
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Sureves

Registered User
Sep 29, 2008
11,520
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Ottawa
Wanna bet? I bet at least one signs if not both.

This isn’t a gambling site so no we can’t bet. But seriously, pretend you are Mark Stone or Matt Duchene for a few minutes and really think about it.

Why would you sign an offer Ottawa - a bottom feeder team for the foreseeable future who has openly announced they are going through a rebuild - offers when you can wait until July and have (almost) every team in the NHL bidding for your services and then choose wherever you like the contract/situation/city the most?
 

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
99,857
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Somewhere on Uranus
Oilers < Duchene, Stone (Wideman and/or Borowieki could also be added)

Sens < Puljujarvi, Nurse, Bouchard, Lucic


Edmonton load up offensively while dumping Lucic's contract

Ottawa gets 3 young, skillful players for their rebuild


not ONE or TWO soon to be UFAS but a 3rd one for good messure for 3 recent first rounder--all to dump Lucic contract?

come on people--Lucic contract is bad but not that bad and for you numb nuts that slamming Nurse? we will keep him if he sooo bad and Bouchard went 10th overall and is nearly ready for the NHL

[mod]
 
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Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
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too many people overrate the "favor" of taking on Lucic's contract. We are going to give him another shot to bounce back. If he fails again, I think we will get away with LTIRetirement. If not that, we will at least wait until the summer to gauge the trade market.

Btw, there's no way we sell out the future of our D, as well as a top end potential winger like Puljujarvi, for rentals.
 

puckpilot

Registered User
Oct 23, 2016
1,228
880
Well, I think Edm should throw in McDavid and Draisaitl if they're really intent on destroying their team's future. I mean don't half-ass it. Head first into the empty pool.
 

Kaniac

Registered User
Sep 11, 2018
686
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Yeah that's a no from me dog. That's a ton to give up for Edmonton for rental players.
 

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
99,857
13,840
Somewhere on Uranus
Oilers < Duchene, Stone (Wideman and/or Borowieki could also be added)

Sens < Puljujarvi, Nurse, Bouchard, Lucic


Edmonton load up offensively while dumping Lucic's contract

Ottawa gets 3 young, skillful players for their rebuild


If I made a thread Van/Ott

Duschene, Stone and Wideman to Vancouver for Erickson, Hughes, Jouvi, and Patterson--the thread may last 3 posts before shut down--that is the same level as this thread
 

Sureves

Registered User
Sep 29, 2008
11,520
928
Ottawa
hmm last I checked u lost ur franchise player, we still have the worlds best player on our team and our city, stop throwing stones in ur pathetic house

I wasn’t throwing stones I was stating a fact. It is extremely unlikely that a star UFA would want to sign in Edmonton, simply because they don’t want to play in the city of Edmonton. Same goes for Ottawa, you don’t need to be so sensitive; it is what it is.
 

Flyerfan52

Registered User
May 3, 2012
1,670
269
Winnipeg
too many people overrate the "favor" of taking on Lucic's contract. We are going to give him another shot to bounce back. If he fails again, I think we will get away with LTIRetirement. If not that, we will at least wait until the summer to gauge the trade market.

Btw, there's no way we sell out the future of our D, as well as a top end potential winger like Puljujarvi, for rentals.
How do you sell LTIR retirement for Lucic when he played in every game since the Oilers signed him? :huh: Explain please. :popcorn:

Just losing your mojo & becoming a bad player is not a major injury. Even if Katz paid a doctor in Edmonton to sign off on a bogus injury the NHL doctors would quash that very fast. Those types of shenanigans result in fines & loss of picks. Trying to ditch a $6 million anchor contract with 4 years left (I took after this year to account for that extra shot to bounce back) would probably be enough to cost the Oilers a 1st rounder. :thumbd:
 

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
99,857
13,840
Somewhere on Uranus
How do you sell LTIR retirement for Lucic when he played in every game since the Oilers signed him? :huh: Explain please. :popcorn:

Just losing your mojo & becoming a bad player is not a major injury. Even if Katz paid a doctor in Edmonton to sign off on a bogus injury the NHL doctors would quash that very fast. Those types of shenanigans result in fines & loss of picks. Trying to ditch a $6 million anchor contract with 4 years left (I took after this year to account for that extra shot to bounce back) would probably be enough to cost the Oilers a 1st rounder. :thumbd:


same logic that is used in trying to say the Oilers would trade Nurse, Bouchard and Pizza boy to move Lucic contract
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
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16,187
How do you sell LTIR retirement for Lucic when he played in every game since the Oilers signed him? :huh: Explain please. :popcorn:

Just losing your mojo & becoming a bad player is not a major injury. Even if Katz paid a doctor in Edmonton to sign off on a bogus injury the NHL doctors would quash that very fast. Those types of shenanigans result in fines & loss of picks. Trying to ditch a $6 million anchor contract with 4 years left (I took after this year to account for that extra shot to bounce back) would probably be enough to cost the Oilers a 1st rounder. :thumbd:
we don't have to pay any doctor to anything like that. Lucic has a degenerative back condition. If the league sends doctors they will confirm this. All that Lucic has to do is claim that it is responsible for his decline and that it gives him discomfort. Quite frankly, if he only gets worse, it will be enough proof that his condition has worsened.

As for playing every game, we just had Zetterberg do the same thing. A player doesn't need to be unable to play, just that their issue is impacting the well being of their life and that playing will impact it negatively.

Not only that, we are just on the heels of the Lupul situation, where he would say on Twitter that he is fine to play, but the Leafs got to put him on LTIR anyway. So maybe you enjoy the idea of us being saddled with a contract we'd rather not have, but that is just your emotional response.
 

Neutrinos

Registered User
Sep 23, 2016
8,587
3,597
If I made a thread Van/Ott

Duschene, Stone and Wideman to Vancouver for Erickson, Hughes, Jouvi, and Patterson--the thread may last 3 posts before shut down--that is the same level as this thread

Vancouver isn't expected to compete for a playoff spot this season

Lucic also has a worse contract than Eriksson
 

CapnZin

Registered User
Jul 20, 2017
4,665
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Sweden
This is all true in theory.

The problem with the logic is that

1) Edmonton isn’t a contender and acquiring Duchene and Stone won’t make them a contender
2) Giving up Nurse and their best D prospect makes their defence really bad to the point where the team is worse for having Stone and Duchene on it
3) A year later, Edmonton has nothing to show for the trade

In this way, Nurse, PoolParty, amd Bouchard are far more valuable to Edmonton than Duchene and Stone despite being far worse than those two players.
1) I don’t know about that... regardless of what makes them a contender, they’re not a contender now, so the point is rendered useless of what makes them a contender.

Taking a look at that team... adding a first line winger (on EDM) in Stone allows Draisaitl/RNH (most likely Draisaitl) to pair up with McDavid and Stone to create a formidable L1. Duchene as your 2C is good too. You have a good center below the red line in Duchene. The RW/LW is whoever slots in. This also allows for great C depth using McDavid-Duchene-RHN. That is a “contending” c depth. The B6 wingers will be a problem though.

2) This will be a big issue... yes. Giving up their #1/2/3 Dman will hurt a lot along with their top prospect. This aspect itself is what makes the trade not necessarily applicable (not Bouchard)... giving up Nurse who somewhat rounds out the D Corp. Letting Nurse go almost decimates the defense. Borowiecki or Wideman slotting in the 5/6 spot doesn’t do a whole lot because you have overplayed vets in Sekera/Russell.
***Just because Nurse plays as the #1 (sometimes) Dman in EDM doesn’t mean he has #1 value. He wouldn’t slot in the top pair on some teams. You pay that #1 Dman price for a player that slots in on every team as a #1 Dman you know? Karlsson Trade is different due to the surrounding situational discrepancies.

3) I generally don’t get these comments... “a year later we have nothing to show for the trade”... what does that mean? You’re insinuating that Stone and Duchene 100% will not resign. That’s an extremely bold statement. Again... you’re (the buying team) wanting the lower end of the premium due to the potential of Stone/Duchene not signing long-term. That premium comes to fruition when you know that they’re rentals. You have to know that those players won’t resign before you make a trade or decide not to make that trade.

I also stated in my previous post that I’m only accounting for value... which in its own right is a good trade. Accounting for needs... not as much. Solely due to Nurse.
My logic was the value, not that outside stuff like “potential/year later his happening” stuff that isn’t necessarily tangible aspects of what you base value on unless it’s a certainty.
 

Just Linda

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
6,632
6,506
1) I don’t know about that... regardless of what makes them a contender, they’re not a contender now, so the point is rendered useless of what makes them a contender.

Taking a look at that team... adding a first line winger (on EDM) in Stone allows Draisaitl/RNH (most likely Draisaitl) to pair up with McDavid and Stone to create a formidable L1. Duchene as your 2C is good too. You have a good center below the red line in Duchene. The RW/LW is whoever slots in. This also allows for great C depth using McDavid-Duchene-RHN. That is a “contending” c depth. The B6 wingers will be a problem though.

2) This will be a big issue... yes. Giving up their #1/2/3 Dman will hurt a lot along with their top prospect. This aspect itself is what makes the trade not necessarily applicable (not Bouchard)... giving up Nurse who somewhat rounds out the D Corp. Letting Nurse go almost decimates the defense. Borowiecki or Wideman slotting in the 5/6 spot doesn’t do a whole lot because you have overplayed vets in Sekera/Russell.
***Just because Nurse plays as the #1 (sometimes) Dman in EDM doesn’t mean he has #1 value. He wouldn’t slot in the top pair on some teams. You pay that #1 Dman price for a player that slots in on every team as a #1 Dman you know? Karlsson Trade is different due to the surrounding situational discrepancies.

3) I generally don’t get these comments... “a year later we have nothing to show for the trade”... what does that mean? You’re insinuating that Stone and Duchene 100% will not resign. That’s an extremely bold statement. Again... you’re (the buying team) wanting the lower end of the premium due to the potential of Stone/Duchene not signing long-term. That premium comes to fruition when you know that they’re rentals. You have to know that those players won’t resign before you make a trade or decide not to make that trade.

I also stated in my previous post that I’m only accounting for value... which in its own right is a good trade. Accounting for needs... not as much. Solely due to Nurse.
My logic was the value, not that outside stuff like “potential/year later his happening” stuff that isn’t necessarily tangible aspects of what you base value on unless it’s a certainty.

Duchene and Stone have no worth as futures unless they commit. 31 teams are competing in free agency, unless pen is to paper, you assume they are going to walk. It’s horrible management to even assume either would sign.
 

CapnZin

Registered User
Jul 20, 2017
4,665
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Sweden
Duchene and Stone have no worth as futures unless they commit. 31 teams are competing in free agency, unless pen is to paper, you assume they are going to walk. It’s horrible management to even assume either would sign.
I agree... that’s what that premium is... you assuming they would walk. You want less for that. It’s just a bold statement to think of a trade with a UFA to assume they would bolt at the end of the year. With that sentiment, you wouldn’t see any UFA contract year players being traded which, obviously, is not that case.

It’s not bad management to assume they would sign... lol... that’s why you’d make the trade for them... based on your logic SJS made a grave decision trading for Karlsson.

EDM may be a rocky place... I guess that’s why you’re assuming UFA players would walk away from EDM, but people want to play with a guy like McDavid. Stone would be lucky to be his RW. He “would” stay there for that role. Duchene plays better when being sheltered. That’s why he was so good in COL and not as good with OTT. He may want the limelight, but he’s better in a more open role instead of playing top lines. Playing behind McDavid is great for him too. Why wouldn’t Malkin walk someone to be their 1C? Playing Behind Crosby makes him that much more dangerous too.

I’m not necessarily saying everything that you’re stating is incorrect, I’m just challenging the thought behind it.:thumbu:
 

Just Linda

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
6,632
6,506
I agree... that’s what that premium is... you assuming they would walk. You want less for that. It’s just a bold statement to think of a trade with a UFA to assume they would bolt at the end of the year. With that sentiment, you wouldn’t see any UFA contract year players being traded which, obviously, is not that case.

It’s not bad management to assume they would sign... lol... that’s why you’d make the trade for them... based on your logic SJS made a grave decision trading for Karlsson.

EDM may be a rocky place... I guess that’s why you’re assuming UFA players would walk away from EDM, but people want to play with a guy like McDavid. Stone would be lucky to be his RW. He “would” stay there for that role. Duchene plays better when being sheltered. That’s why he was so good in COL and not as good with OTT. He may want the limelight, but he’s better in a more open role instead of playing top lines. Playing behind McDavid is great for him too. Why wouldn’t Malkin walk someone to be their 1C? Playing Behind Crosby makes him that much more dangerous too.

I’m not necessarily saying everything that you’re stating is incorrect, I’m just challenging the thought behind it.:thumbu:

San Jose didn’t pay for extended Karlsson. They paid for 1 year Karlsson. They went all in on now. If Karlsson signs great but they didn’t trade for him with the expectation that he would. To my knowledge, that has never happened outside of trading for signing rights.
 

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