Nobody compared Eichel to Hischier. You missed the point again, so I'm just going to see myself out.
Proposal: Blockbuster: BUF + N.J.
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SpeakingOfTheDevils
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I never compared Nico to Eichel.
But if you are dense enough to not consider Nico Hischier a "young, proven, cost-controlled 1C," then I could see why there might be confusion.
I responded to an inadequate offer by stating what it would take from Buffalo to land him. And, frankly, there isn't anything there that entices me outside of the forbidden fruits.
Nothing I'm saying is controversial.
50 point players are #1C's now a days?
Sure you replied with what it would take but are you so dense that you don't know that eichel would never be traded for hischier+. I mean what could nj add that would make buffalo say yes?
It is controversial that you think hischier+ is good enough for eichel.
Dr Quincy
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How is he a proven #1? He's a proven NHL player. He's a potentially a #1C.
But any team in the NHL that has the current Nico as their #1C is a team that needs a C upgrade if it plans on contending.
Now 2 or 3 years from now maybe that changes.
But in no future do I think Hischier ever gets close to Eichel, and I'm not even that big of an Eichel fan.
Again whatever semantics you want to argue about over what makes a 1C is irrelevant. As is comparing Eichel and Hischier, as nobody has done that.
Nico Hischier is a good young hockey player who is the best center the team has with potential to grow. He is their 1C.
It makes no sense to trade him if they aren't getting back a center of greater or equal value to fill the 1C spot they open by trading him. It's very simple.
Neutrinos
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Horvat seems like a reasonable benchmark when we're projecting Hischier's ceiling
In his 3rd season at age 21, Hischier averaged .62 points in 18:04 minutes per game
In his 3rd season at age 21, Horvat averaged .64 points in 18:02 minutes per game
Everyone would love to have Horvat on their team, but I think it's fair to say that most fans feel he's better suited as a 2C
I think Hischier is likely viewed by most in a similar fashion
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Dr Quincy
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It makes no sense to say that you will trade a worse player for a clearly better player. It's very simple.
If you don't want to move a guy just say, "He's not available". It is in no way useful to say "He'll only move for a player clearly superior to him."
And it absolutely is 100% relevant and not at all "semantics" to say that a guy who isn't a #1 C right now, isn't a #1C right now.
This guy gets worse by the hour, #7, Cozens and Okposo for Hischier New Jersey takes that and runs. Don't know why Buffalo would though.
Exactly
Except he never proposed trading for Eichel. Seriously, you're totally missing the point.
Don't worry, nobody thinks Hischier is worth Eichel. Moving on.
drw02
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The way people view Hischier on this site and only use point % to compare him to other players is a tell all for their knowledge of grading players. Nobody is comparing him to Eichel but if you don’t think in 2-3 years he would be a #1 C on a contending team it’s obvious you don’t watch him play at all and are strictly looking at stats. There are things that are incredibly important that don’t go on the scoresheet. My suggestion for the future of this site, don’t make offers for Hischier because the people that watch him play (Devil’s fans) know he is so much better than the credit he gets
Dr Quincy
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Except nobody argued that. Rather a couple people said he's a clear #1C now and there's no debate.
Do you agree with that statement?
Yes I do. Name 30 centers better than him. I can probably think of 15-20 then it becomes very opinionated from there
phlocky
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Well, you've opened up the door so I'll step on through. Just from the Flyers, Couturier is CLEARLY better than Nico. Giroux, who still plays center at times, is CLEARLY better, and a legit argument can be made for Hayes to called better than Nico.
Now I know you are going to say G is a wing now but the truth is he plays both and if he were on a team that lacked center depth he'd be playing their #1 center position. As to Hayes, which I'm sure you're going to say is laughable, Hayes just this year has more goals, more points, plays ALL situations (pp, pk, 5v5, 3v3, shootouts, etc) and is far superior defensively and away from the puck.
I'm not suggesting that once Nico hits his peak (he's not even close to his peak yet) that he won't surpass Hayes but you didn't say "potential" or "in 2 to 3 years", you said right now and right now I just provided you with at least 2 and likely 3 centers just on the Flyers who are superior to him right now.
Should we continue with other teams or would you like to retract your statement?
Dr Quincy
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I can name 30 C better than him right now, but it's a fruitless exercise.
You'll surely pick out a couple names and say "No." without any evidence.
If I use counting stats you'll say that's stat watching.
If I use advanced metrics you'll say that is fancy pinhead thinking by guys who never played the game.
You'll say "If you don't agree with me, that means you haven't watched him as much." Which of course is ridiculous logic, because I can turn around and say "If you think the guy I had at #25 isn't better than Nico it just means you don't know him as well as I do and haven't watched the games."
The thing you conveniently leave out about your Hayes comparison is that Hayes has played 11 more games this season. He’s producing at a smaller ppg than Hischier is on a much, much worse team. And “far superior” defensively...lol.
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FreeBobbyFarnham
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SpeakingOfTheDevils
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Again, you're missing the point.
None of this exists in a vacuum. The OP proposed a trade for NJ's young, proven, cost-controlled 1C. Whether you subscribe to the idea that Nico is a 1C is irrelevant - for now, he is the Devils' 1C, and he is valued accordingly. If we're trading him to Buffalo, the only pieces that entice me are Eichel and Dahlin.
That doesn't mean it makes sense for Buffalo. And it also doesn't mean that the value is fair. It just means that the Devils view Nico as an important building block, and that we'd much sooner package him for an upgrade than liquidate him into lesser pieces.
I can't believe this has to be explained so thoroughly.
Dr Quincy
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You could have saved yourself a lengthy reply if you'd checked to see that I said the original offer wasn't good for NJ.
But whatever pieces entice your or not are irrelevant. Your idea that "if we're trading Nico, Eichel coming back" is exactly what I said it was: The point that most trade threads here come to... the point where the initial bad offer invites a response that takes it too far the other way.
Nothing in your explanation changes that.
Djp
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Its unknown whether Hirschier is better/worse than Cozens
I dont see Hischier being better than Eichel. I look at Hischier being a low 1C in this league he may be better with better linemates...only time will tell. Hes someone who more likely gets a bridge contract similar to RyJo.
“Far superior defensively” ummm what. Hischer’s strongest asset right now is his defensive play and responsibility. If you’re asking me if I want Hischier or Hayes right now especially with contract added in its Hischier and it’s not even close. And you said it yourself Giroux plays wing now... so you’ve named 1 center on the Flyers who YOU think is better than Hischier. I think a BUNCH of other people would argue you saying Hischier is better (thus the opinion part I said earlier). The original comment I made was in response to someone who said Hischier is not a #1 Center. So make a list of 31 centers you think are better than him
tsujimoto74
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You could offer NJ's 3 most valuable assets for Eichel and you'd still get laughed off the phone.
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
You're still viewing this objectively, instead of subjectively through the perspective of the Devils' organization.
As the other guy said, moving on.
I don't doubt that - and, frankly, I wouldn't blame you. Eichel is the backbone of your organization. The ultimate building block. If I were the Sabres, I wouldn't trade him for anything short of a stupid overpayment.
It's almost as if organizational context matters!
Neutrinos
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Hughes, Hischier, #6 for Eichel
I think that's an offer Buffalo would strongly consider, and quite possibly accept
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tsujimoto74
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