Blizzard's Diablo Immortal (Mobile Game)

[Moskau]

Blizzard has stopped being about gamers, it's about MONEY, now. This just is how it is - ACTIVISION.

Blizzard was trending downwards well before Activision.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Blizzard was trending downwards well before Activision.

Sadly true.

And yet, I find they still make really good games when they put their minds to it. They seem to be more than happy to just ride the train right now though....

A farmed out mobile Diablo game is just too on the nose.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

Blizzard was trending downwards well before Activision.

yeah, people just have so many great gaming memories with Blizzard it is hard for them to see Blizzard as a bad guy, it is just way easier to blame Activison for turning Blizzard, when the truth was Blizzard was heading that way anyway.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Entitled gamers being entitled, news at 11.

Shouldn't have made it the closing announcement of their event, but then their petulant fanbase would ride them for not having anything new.

I am the first one to tear apart entitlement culture but that isn't the problem here. It isn't entitled gamers. It is a frustrated consumer that is not happy with the next line of products. Blizzard had nothing to offer on the Diablo front so they cook up a shitty pay to win mobile game, a game that some are suggesting is just a re-skin of Endless of God.

It shows that Blizzard is 100% out of touch with THEIR gamer and that is a problem that is not easy to fix. Would this particular announcement have been met with more acceptance in a different franchise? Possibly. Probably. They don't know their consumer well enough to know what they want, which leads me to believe that if Diablo 4 is ever released, it will not be a good game. It also leads me to believe that Diablo 2 remake will not happen for a long time, if ever. But to chide a fanbase as petulant and entitled because they were being given something that is not only a terrible product, but they didn't ask for, is... wrong on many levels.

 

[syz]

I am the first one to tear apart entitlement culture but that isn't the problem here. It isn't entitled gamers. It is a frustrated consumer that is not happy with the next line of products. Blizzard had nothing to offer on the Diablo front so they cook up a ****ty pay to win mobile game, a game that some are suggesting is just a re-skin of Endless of God.

It shows that Blizzard is 100% out of touch with THEIR gamer and that is a problem that is not easy to fix. Would this particular announcement have been met with more acceptance in a different franchise? Possibly. Probably. They don't know their consumer well enough to know what they want, which leads me to believe that if Diablo 4 is ever released, it will not be a good game. It also leads me to believe that Diablo 2 remake will not happen for a long time, if ever. But to chide a fanbase as petulant and entitled because they were being given something that is not only a terrible product, but they didn't ask for, is... wrong on many levels.

I'm chiding a fanbase as petulant and entitled for not realizing that not every game is for them. If Blizzard wants to try and expand their market then that's their prerogative. The only thing they're out of touch with here is, again, making it the closing announcement of their keynote. Again, Bethesda did the same thing like 4 months ago but got themselves off the hook by showing a couple of logos for games that won't be out for several years. Blizzard has unfortunately never really talked about anything until they have something substantial to show, which in this case ended up shooting them in the foot. Doing shit like trying to reupload trailers to dodge the dislikes doesn't do them any favors, either.

I've said this about Blizzcon before, but I really don't know why they feel the need to have keynote presentations. People ultimately compare anything like this to an E3 conference, and Blizzard isn't a prolific enough studio to live up to those expectations, especially considering where their franchises are all currently at. Diablo is next in line for an actual new release rather than expansion, but it's still too early for anything significant given the speed at which we know Blizzard works.

Blizzard had nothing to offer on the Diablo front so they cook up a ****ty pay to win mobile game, a game that some are suggesting is just a re-skin of Endless of God.

Also just want to say that statements like this are outrage spin to a T. Whatever they had for Diablo 4 wasn't ready, so it wasn't shown. Immortal is being developed externally, so I doubt it's taking much manpower away from Diablo 4's development. The developer that's making it already makes similar games so it makes sense that Blizzard would go with that team and their engine (which would mean that it's going to play similarly to other games they've made.) AFAIK, they haven't said anything about business models yet.

The game's not for me, but my only response after seeing it was to shrug my shoulders and close the stream. The idea that "it's not for me and therefore f*** Blizzard" is 100% entitlement. The people who were actually at the venue have some right to be upset considering Blizzard charged them however many hundreds for a ticket to attend, but everybody else on the internet needs to suck it up. Y'all spent like 12 years between Diablo games before.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I'm chiding a fanbase as petulant and entitled for not realizing that not every game is for them. If Blizzard wants to try and expand their market then that's their prerogative. The only thing they're out of touch with here is, again, making it the closing announcement of their keynote. Again, Bethesda did the same thing like 4 months ago but got themselves off the hook by showing a couple of logos for games that won't be out for several years. Blizzard has unfortunately never really talked about anything until they have something substantial to show, which in this case ended up shooting them in the foot. Doing **** like trying to reupload trailers to dodge the dislikes doesn't do them any favors, either.

I've said this about Blizzcon before, but I really don't know why they feel the need to have keynote presentations. People ultimately compare anything like this to an E3 conference, and Blizzard isn't a prolific enough studio to live up to those expectations, especially considering where their franchises are all currently at. Diablo is next in line for an actual new release rather than expansion, but it's still too early for anything significant given the speed at which we know Blizzard works.



Also just want to say that statements like this are outrage spin to a T. Whatever they had for Diablo 4 wasn't ready, so it wasn't shown. Immortal is being developed externally, so I doubt it's taking much manpower away from Diablo 4's development. The developer that's making it already makes similar games so it makes sense that Blizzard would go with that team and their engine (which would mean that it's going to play similarly to other games they've made.) AFAIK, they haven't said anything about business models yet.

The game's not for me, but my only response after seeing it was to shrug my shoulders and close the stream. The idea that "it's not for me and therefore **** Blizzard" is 100% entitlement. The people who were actually at the venue have some right to be upset considering Blizzard charged them however many hundreds for a ticket to attend, but everybody else on the internet needs to suck it up. Y'all spent like 12 years between Diablo games before.

So the majority of Diablo fans can't be upset when the next game in the series isn't geared towards what they are accustomed to and want?

This isn't a market expansion. This is a shitty FTP/PTW cash grab aimed at the core fans. If it was anything but that, Blizz wouldn't have outsourced the development to a studio that specializes in that stuff.

 

[syz]

So the majority of Diablo fans can't be upset when the next game in the series isn't geared towards what they are accustomed to and want?

They aren't entitled to anything. They can be disappointed while they wait for the thing they want. That's about it.

Again, the thing they're accustomed to and want is still in development and is likely barely affected at all by the existence of this game.

This is a ****ty FTP/PTW cash grab aimed at the core fans.

No, sorry, you're thinking of Hearthstone. But I would be surprised if Blizzard expected their traditional market to be the primary market for a mobile game. I just don't think they were ready for how much said market would hate the idea.

And "cash grab" is such a childish term. Like, welcome to capitalism? Did you think benevolence was driving AAA game development, or something? That Elder Scrolls mobile game is gonna come out years before ES6. Where's the outrage?

 

[Moskau]

I think the major problem with Diablo 4 is going to be that the game most Diablo fans think that they want already exists with Path of Exile. Blizzard is never going to make a Diablo game that good and they know that.

Oh and for anyone who thinks mobile gaming doesn't concern them.

"Many of us over the last few years have shifted from playing primarily desktop to playing many hours on mobile. We have many of our best developers now working on new mobile titles across all of our IPs."'

That's an actual quote from a Blizzard employee from their recent media tour. It's only a matter of time before every company thinks like this. Pretty soon we will be lucky to get a new PC/Console title every 5 years from AAA developers.

 

[Osprey]

I think the major problem with Diablo 4 is going to be that the game most Diablo fans think that they want already exists with Path of Exile. Blizzard is never going to make a Diablo game that good and they know that.

I wasn't very familiar with Path of Exile, so I just looked it up on Steam and was amused reading the top six Most Helpful reviews in the last 30 days:

atleast its not diablo immortal

I will try this now, right after the announcement of Diablo Immortal.

It's not on mobile

You guys don't have phones, do you?

Diablo Immortal brought me here.

I hear if you play it enough and develop a passion for it, they might just release POE 2...

on mobile.

 

[LightningStrikes]

A lot of high profile developers and community figures have left Blizzard over the past months and years. Things like Blizzard North are well a thing of the past. A name that stood for great quality. As a big fan of Blizzard IPs myself who grew up with Diablo 1+2 and WarCraft 3 and who transitioned into WoW (well into its 3rd expansion) and later Hearthstone (until today) and Heroes of the Storm it's really sad to see how things have changed. Chris Metzen, Mike Morhaime, Ben Brode, people that stood for understanding the community and pushing for ultimate quality, are gone.

I've always loved the look, sound and feel of Blizzard games. They've always felt 110%. Intuitive, atmospheric, addictive, paired with great humor and innovations. It fell apart for me after WoW: Cataclysm and Diablo 3 real money auction houses. They won me back with Hearthstone because my available free time was limited (not a student anymore, now occupied with a fulltime job, my girlfriend, friends and HFB ofc) and I could play a game here and there on my tablet without having to spend hours of farming and grinding to advance in the game. Same with HotS later on. But none of my former WoW pals, the few who are still playing from time to time, are really happy with the games. Overwatch was a phase for them. Diablo 3 does nothing to keep players interested. WoW tumbles from one mess to the other. HotS, while good, has to compete with LOL and DotA 2, not an easy task. And now this Diablo Immortal mess. What has become of you, beloved Blizzard?

 

[SeidoN]

I think the major problem with Diablo 4 is going to be that the game most Diablo fans think that they want already exists with Path of Exile. Blizzard is never going to make a Diablo game that good and they know that.

yeah I started POE and its pretty fun. just gonna pretend its Diablo 4 lol

 

[Gardner McKay]

They aren't entitled to anything. They can be disappointed while they wait for the thing they want. That's about it.

Again, the thing they're accustomed to and want is still in development and is likely barely affected at all by the existence of this game.



No, sorry, you're thinking of Hearthstone. But I would be surprised if Blizzard expected their traditional market to be the primary market for a mobile game. I just don't think they were ready for how much said market would hate the idea.

And "cash grab" is such a childish term. Like, welcome to capitalism? Did you think benevolence was driving AAA game development, or something? That Elder Scrolls mobile game is gonna come out years before ES6. Where's the outrage?

Being upset/frustrated is not the same as "being entitled" and who are you to say what people can/cannot feel? What makes you the arbitrator of peoples feelings?

I don't play any of those other games so frankly, I don't give a rats ass. Cash grab is not a "childish" term, it is what Diablo: Immortal appears to be. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do it. I am saying I have a right to say it is a piss poor idea. Also, maybe try to tone down having every post dripping with such a condescending nature.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Blizz has all the right in the world to explore other markets (here: RPG on mobile). What doesn't sit well with the fans is Blizz is known for creating high profile PC (and console) games. In fact it's genre defining IPs like Diablo, StarCraft, Hearthstone or WoW. So on their annual convention filled with die-hard fans who spent hundreds of dollars to be there (flights, hotels, tickets, merch) expecting the promised (or hinted at) next big thing in the Diablo world, they show a 3 months in development, unfinished (no talents, no loot system shown), outsourced, "wrong" platform game. It's like a gourmet steak restaurant, known for serving the most tender and delicious steaks, is serving its most loyal customers a BigMac menu without fries and ketchup on "special surprise night for loyal customers".

So I don't know how the fans are acting "entitled" here or just air their justified anger and frustration. It's been 4 years since the only add-on for Diablo 3 was released. And let's be honest it was just a mini game with a full game price tag. The fans are (were) still there though, stayed loyal, get hyped, and this time... got disappointed hard.

Again, Blizz has every right to go the mobile route with the Diablo brand. It's their product and most likely it will be a smash hit in Asia. But Blizz has built a reputation, is a AAA product company, the #1 in lots of game genres. Are they sure they want to risk or even destroy their reputation with Diablo Immortal? An outsourced, microtransactions-based, reskin of an already existing game of said 3rd party company? Is this "Blizzard quality"?

 

[syz]

Being upset/frustrated is not the same as "being entitled" and who are you to say what people can/cannot feel? What makes you the arbitrator of peoples feelings?

I don't play any of those other games so frankly, I don't give a rats ass. Cash grab is not a "childish" term, it is what Diablo: Immortal appears to be. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do it. I am saying I have a right to say it is a piss poor idea. Also, maybe try to tone down having every post dripping with such a condescending nature.

If you think the internet's reaction to this is on the level of "being upset/frustrated" then you need to adjust your sights a bit. The lack of civility being displayed and the temper tantrums being thrown are textbook entitlement. I say that not as the arbiter* of people's feelings, but as somebody who knows what words mean.

So I don't know how the fans are acting "entitled" here or just air their justified anger and frustration. It's been 4 years since the only add-on for Diablo 3 was released. And let's be honest it was just a mini game with a full game price tag. The fans are (were) still there though, stayed loyal, get hyped, and this time... got disappointed hard.

4 years is the speed of light in non-expansion Blizzard time.

 

[Gardner McKay]

If you think the internet's reaction to this is on the level of "being upset/frustrated" then you need to adjust your sights a bit. The lack of civility being displayed and the temper tantrums being thrown are textbook entitlement. I say that not as the arbiter* of people's feelings, but as somebody who knows what words mean.

Ahh. Very cool of you to correct me and continue with the condescending tone. I presume that you have never, ever made a mistake.

 

[syz]

Ahh. Very cool of you to correct me and continue with the condescending tone. I presume that you have never, ever made a mistake.

Do you have anything to say regarding whether or not the level of outrage here is actually warranted or are you just going to stick to ad hominem?

Also, since I forgot: yes, "cash grab" is a childish term. We're talking about a AAA developer that currently makes however many hundreds of millions of dollars per year via blind loot boxes in Overwatch and card packs in Hearthstone. That it would be the mere announcement of a mobile game--even without any details regarding its actual business model--that would get fans to condemn the studio for a "cash grab" is hysterical, and is a big part of where my criticism comes from here.

All I'm saying is that this goes a lot deeper than just "but I want a thing and didn't get the thing so I'm mad." Blizzard is a wealthy western developer belonging to a wealthy western publisher, who both belong to wealthy shareholders in a capitalist society. Almost every decision that gets made gets made from a "cash grab" perspective (i.e.: with the sole intention of maximizing profits.)

There is nuance involved that would probably not be an interesting read to people here, but to sum up: the only consumer entitled to anything at the upper ends of a capitalist structure is the consumer who spends the most money. Anybody who fuels capitalist ends and then gets mad when a producer they like begins to entertain a wealthier consumer base would do well to investigate the irony there. Though, again, this is all (so far) hyperbolic; Blizzard has not yet abandoned their core market, and will eventually (try to) produce the thing that that market wants. Whether or not said market can bring themselves to have some patience remains to be seen.

 

[Beau Knows]

Being upset/frustrated is not the same as "being entitled" and who are you to say what people can/cannot feel? What makes you the arbitrator of peoples feelings?

I don't play any of those other games so frankly, I don't give a rats ass. Cash grab is not a "childish" term, it is what Diablo: Immortal appears to be. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do it. I am saying I have a right to say it is a piss poor idea. Also, maybe try to tone down having every post dripping with such a condescending nature.

I think this sums it up pretty well. Blizzard is free to make whatever games it wants and people are allowed to dislike the direction they're going in with their newest game.

I don't play any Blizzard or phone games anyways, so it doesn't matter to me what they do.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I think this sums it up pretty well. Blizzard is free to make whatever games it wants and people are allowed to dislike the direction they're going in with their newest game.

I don't play any Blizzard or phone games anyways, so it doesn't matter to me what they do.

Yep. That is all I am saying.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

My hot take:

It was a dumb place to announce it and it made matters worse to announce it at the very end. Blizzcon is not an investor event, it's a fan event, and that fanbase is overwhelmingly PC, so trying to spin a mobile game as anything other than something mentioned in passing is pretty obviously going to net you a negative reaction. And being condescending on stage just made matters worse.

At the same time, being upset about it unless you specifically bought a ticket to go to Blizzcon in the hopes of seeing an exciting reveal is nonsensical. Oh, a franchise I like is getting a port I don't care about? Ignored.

 

[SeidoN]

At the same time, being upset about it unless you specifically bought a ticket to go to Blizzcon in the hopes of seeing an exciting reveal is nonsensical. Oh, a franchise I like is getting a port I don't care about? Ignored.

I dont think its that unreasonable to be disappointed. especially if you attend cause that kinda implies youre a hardcore. but this Blizzcon was definitely a huge letdown. lets compare to last years

Overwatch
2017 - New Hero and BlizzardWorld map
2018 - New Hero

WoW
2017 - BfA expansion announce and trailer and vanilla server
2018 - Remastered WC3 (not actually NEW content)

HotS
2017 - Two anticipated heroes and an event
2018 - One hero (not even from a Blizzard IP)

Starcraft 2
2017 - goes F2P (ok this isnt much but hey free game)
2018 - One new coop commander (nothing actually shown)

Diablo 3
2017 - literally nothing (planting the seeds)
2018 - a mobile game

certainly a downgrade, and the two franchises that got basically nothing last year, have another year of nothing to look forward to

 

[Randallooch]

I say let the internet rage. This has decent potential to yield results. I personally love that the mob won't stand for cash-grab, micro-transaction heavy, watered down games anymore. I'll cite you SW Battlefront II and the first year of Destiny 2. SWBFII missed its goals by quite a bit over the loot crate controversy. Destiny 2 was pretty awful, and then got exposed for EXP throttling so that you would be more inclined to spend cash on cosmetic items. What resulted from the Destiny controversy is an incredible experience in the Y2 expansion, Forsaken. Not sure on the current state of things with Star Wars, but I can tell you that I didn't buy it based on the loot crate debacle, and in the end, that is what counts.

I don't understand the high-horse stance calling the fan base petulant. What have they done so far, said some mean things on the internet and disliked a trailer a bunch? Oooo, look out. When it comes down to it, they'll use their most effective weapon to get the point across, and that is their wallet.

 

[God King Fudge]

I think the bigger issue here is the necessity to have a Blizzcon every year, and poor planning on Blizz's part. Move that mobile game trailer somewhere else in the keynote and end it with even like a splash of the D4 title and I think the response is much less muted.

I love Diablo but don't care at all to play this game, so I won't. I think it was a poor decision by Blizz to go out on that, but it's not as egregious as people make it out to be.

 

[Osprey]

All I'm saying is that this goes a lot deeper than just "but I want a thing and didn't get the thing so I'm mad." Blizzard is a wealthy western developer belonging to a wealthy western publisher, who both belong to wealthy shareholders in a capitalist society. Almost every decision that gets made gets made from a "cash grab" perspective (i.e.: with the sole intention of maximizing profits.)

There is nuance involved that would probably not be an interesting read to people here, but to sum up: the only consumer entitled to anything at the upper ends of a capitalist structure is the consumer who spends the most money. Anybody who fuels capitalist ends and then gets mad when a producer they like begins to entertain a wealthier consumer base would do well to investigate the irony there. Though, again, this is all (so far) hyperbolic; Blizzard has not yet abandoned their core market, and will eventually (try to) produce the thing that that market wants. Whether or not said market can bring themselves to have some patience remains to be seen.

Consumer economy is built around supply and demand. The consumer demands something and a seller eventually supplies it, and if it's not exactly what was wanted, the demand continues until it's satisfied. That's perfectly natural and how the system works. I don't agree with criticizing the demand and suggesting that it be replaced with patience. That's not going to do anything but delay the supply.

If Blizzard eventually produces what the market wants, it'll be because the market made itself heard. Patience hasn't done much for Diablo fans since the last Diablo II expansion in 2001. They're still waiting for a real replacement for Diablo II... 17 years later. I see how it might look like they're acting entitled, but they're not acting any more entitled than sports fans who are tired of waiting to have a winning team. Like them, they're voicing themselves in the hope that they'll be heard. That's just part of supply and demand.

 

[syz]

Consumer economy is built around supply and demand. The consumer demands something and a seller eventually supplies it, and if it's not exactly what was wanted, the demand continues until it's satisfied. That's perfectly natural and how the system works.

And when there's more demand globally for mobile games than PC games... see where this is going?

I don't agree with criticizing the demand and suggesting that it be replaced with patience. That's not going to do anything but delay the supply.

Stomping your feet shouldn't result in a game being developed faster--especially given how much of an issue overwork in game development has become, and especially considering Blizzard is, like, the most "it's done when it's done" studios in video game history. Fans should know what they've signed up for at this point. They're making Diablo 4. They were making Diablo 4 before this conference. It'll come out when it's finished. As is tradition. Ideally, if it ends up being bad then people just wouldn't buy it, and Blizzard would see losses... but that's not really how consumers function in video games now, for whatever reason. Everybody'll pre-order it and then whine about it after.

I'm pretty curious myself to see what it ends up being, at any rate. I'm willing to bet it won't be something aimed at the Diablo 2/PC crowd after the success they've had with D3 on consoles.

I see how it might look like they're acting entitled, but they're not acting any more entitled than sports fans who are tired of waiting to have a winning team.

"I see how it might look like they're acting entitled, but they're not acting any more entitled than people who are acting entitled." Nobody deserves a winning sports team. It's just a thing that happens; either you get it or you don't.

Like them, they're voicing themselves in the hope that they'll be heard.

And like them, a lot of people are just being dicks. I'm 100% on board with people voicing their concerns or voting with their wallets when the times comes. There are sports fans who manage to be civil, or who stop buying tickets, or whatever, and then there are sports fans who harass Connor McDavid and his parents in public, like he owes them shit anyways. Disappointment is not a justification to throw respect out the window, and that's where the entitlement always manages to show in this industry.

 

[Osprey]

And when there's more demand globally for mobile games than PC games... see where this is going?

That doesn't have relevance to what I was pointing out. PC gamers are going to demand a PC game regardless of whether Blizzard makes a mobile game or no game at all.

Stomping your feet shouldn't result in a game being developed faster--especially given how much of an issue overwork in game development has become, and especially considering Blizzard is, like, the most "it's done when it's done" studios in video game history. Fans should know what they've signed up for at this point. They're making Diablo 4. They were making Diablo 4 before this conference. It'll come out when it's finished. As is tradition. Ideally, if it ends up being bad then people just wouldn't buy it, and Blizzard would see losses... but that's not really how consumers function in video games now, for whatever reason. Everybody'll pre-order it and then whine about it after.

People aren't "stomping their feet" to get Blizzard to develop it faster. They're expressing dissatisfaction with being teased. All that they want is to be informed. Maybe work on Diablo 4 has started, but it hasn't been announced, so it may as well not exist yet. It might've even been pulled from Blizzcon because Blizzard is unhappy with its direction and considering cancelling it; we don't know. If Blizzard is working on Diablo 4, they would like to know and not be left hanging, especially after hype has been built. When it's finally announced, fans will be giddy and you won't have to tell them to be patient. Until then, I don't think that you can begrudge them for being impatient for an announcement. That's not a lot to ask for, IMO.