BioWare's Anthem (PC/XB/PS)

542365

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Yeah I've seen some Sterling videos and one argument that he made that really stuck with me because it makes a lot of sense is that even if they find a way to make amazing live service games, people's time and money are both finite resources. You can't keep pumping these games out in perpetuity and expect stable, continuous growth. People will run out of time and/or money eventually and the business model will fail miserably.
 

Ceremony

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Jun 8, 2012
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My favourite part of this discussion is that Anthem, in development for six years and with all sorts of hype around it, was released and is largely a disaster. At the same time EA put out Apex Legends, free to play with barely any fanfare, and it's much more popular.
 

Smoke

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My favourite part of this discussion is that Anthem, in development for six years and with all sorts of hype around it, was released and is largely a disaster. At the same time EA put out Apex Legends, free to play with barely any fanfare, and it's much more popular.

If they had hyped up a game with gambling lootboxes it would have failed for sure.

At least this time Respawn was on the better end of a release date. Poor Titanfall.
 

Whiplash27

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Jan 25, 2007
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Oh I fully understand why this is happening, and I don't blame companies for wanting to cater to that lucrative market. I could rant about how big publishers are trying to cram too much into a saturated market, but I'll restrain myself. :laugh:

I'm just a little sad that developers who thrive in the traditional games market are being pushed to the online world and not doing a very good job of it (Bethesda/BioWare, most recently).

I think there's easily a market for both types of games, but due to just how lucrative the "live service" segment can be, everything is being pushed that way and the single player experiences are hurting because of it. While there is certainly overlap, I don't think those two markets are the same and, even if they are, variety is the spice of life.

Just a shame, really. But then again, I'm a cranky old man.

Really the only somewhat recent SP games that did it well were Mass Effect 3 and GTV V. ME3's ending controversy notwithstanding, the single player story was the main focus of the game and was quite good. The multiplayer was kind of an add-on, was pretty fun. and they were able to then expand upon it. GTA V was kind of the same thing. Besides that, I can't really think of any recent SP focused games that had an even short lived popular MP game. It's really a waste of time for most of these developers.
 

Commander Clueless

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Really the only somewhat recent SP games that did it well were Mass Effect 3 and GTV V. ME3's ending controversy notwithstanding, the single player story was the main focus of the game and was quite good. The multiplayer was kind of an add-on, was pretty fun. and they were able to then expand upon it. GTA V was kind of the same thing. Besides that, I can't really think of any recent SP focused games that had an even short lived popular MP game. It's really a waste of time for most of these developers.

I'm having trouble even thinking of other games who tried to follow that formula recently.
 

18Hossa

And Grace, Too
Oct 12, 2012
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300+ fixes in’this patch that was pushed out the door a week early for a game that was pushed pushed out the door too early.

Par for the course for EA.
Funniest part is that there was a bug that made loot drop like 5-10 times a stronghold instead of once. People were loving it yesterday but they pushed the patch out early last night and “fixed” the loot drops to the normal drop rate.
 
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Smoke

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They are really trying to run this game in to the ground.

Just let the loot flow but make top tier inscriptions hard to get.

Nobody wants to play a loot game without any loot, see Diablo 3 at launch.
 

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Fired it up again last night for the first time in a while. Loading screens are definitely better, though they're still very inconvenient(especially the one entering and leaving the forge). Other games(Borderlands, Division, Destiny, Diablo etc.) allow you to immediately equip any item you pick up and swap weapons on the fly based on the situation. That feels like a big miss. It's also not as exciting to pick up something that says "Rare Item" rather than actually seeing the item immediately. I don't know how legendaries work, do they tell you what you picked up immediately or does it just say "Legendary Item"?

Still not a super exciting game to play by any means, but it's alright. One of those games I'll probably beat and then not touch for a couple months, come back, play the new stuff, stop playing again etc.
 

S E P H

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Pretty much. Look at Call of Duty, which comes out yearly with new games and lots of map packs and sees the playerbase happily shell out year on year.

And to both of your points, I for one am astonished that big name publishers push and push and push to try and dominate the market and your wallet with no regard for, well, anything but the money they make.
Majority of these game production companies prey on 12-year-old kids who's parents have no clue what they're buying them (in terms of mature content if the game is rated "M" and what factors are there in the game). I know for one that majority of my friends which are 99.9% over the age of twenty do not buy these games.

Also should add that preying on the younger fanbase is why gamble loot systems have worked so well in terms of money generators and why certain countries are passing amendments against them.
 
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Commander Clueless

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I'd say it had much less substance that's for sure. But the writing and characters were at least memorable for me.

I think they had a really good base with Haluk, Faye and Owen, but it was rushed and, as you said, lacked substance to have the emotion tied to it that it should've.

I think those three could've been really good BioWare-style characters, if given the time and care.


To me, the whole game felt rushed and yet it dragged on, thanks to a weird combination of light story completely separated from the missions and grindy missions.
 
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Morbo

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SolidSnakeUS

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yeah, this is exactly what I thought the game looked like. thrown together rapidly in the last 18 months.

You work on it for years and only some employees know what the f*** they were actually working on with only 18 months left... yeah... they deserved this shit show. The lack of skill, scheduling and communication really shines through with just that one sentence. Honestly, with shit like that, I think Bioware is dead to me. I doubt they put out something as good as ME2 ever again. The fact that Andromeda is a better game than this is hilarious. Also, putting this out there too, even though it has no where near the detail as Kotaku's article.

 

Do Make Say Think

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I hate how everyone is seemingly jerking off to this article.

"Unionize!" - Ummm, that doesn't really fix anything discussed (excrutiatingly poor leadership at the Bioware level) but sure, keep fighting the good fight

"People crying at work is not acceptable" - Yeah well, there are lot of really weak people who can't handle any kind of stress. It certainly is a problem and something that needs to be looked at but this is the real world: it is stressful and having to deal with people who fail upwards is just how it is

"Frostbite sucks! Screw EA" - Bioware chose to use Frostbite despite knowing how hard of time they had with it pn Andromeda and knowing EA wouldn't give them support over Fifa.

Calling this "real journalism" is a huge stretch since it only got one side of the story (understandbly, awful managers tend to not want to talk to anyone) and he got people who help push his "unions for everyone" narrative.
 

Whiplash27

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I personally think that Bioware is also a victim of open world syndrome. This idea of making games bigger and non-linear has really destroyed story based games, which is what Bioware was built upon. Instead of Devs making small worlds filled with detail, the idea has become to make huge worlds with very little detail. You end up with a repetitive mess. Very few devs can pull it off well. Really the only open world games that I've ever seen pull it off well are Bethesda games (even then I get bored with it), The Witcher 3 (which I personally think could have been stronger story-wise if more linear), and Kingdom Come Deliverance (the open world was on the smaller side which made it less daunting to play without fast travel and also made most of the locations more memorable).
 

Commander Clueless

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"Unionize!" - Ummm, that doesn't really fix anything discussed (excrutiatingly poor leadership at the Bioware level) but sure, keep fighting the good fight

I think the idea is that the working conditions are currently unacceptable, and that forcing restrictions on them might actually force management to plan rather than rely exclusively on crunch time to "finish" games as they have in the past. In reality, it's likely not that easy, but it's obvious something must change - both for the workers, and for the quality of games. What isn't as obvious, is what needs to change IMO.

Crunch time will always be a thing (experienced it myself in the software development world), but relying on it almost exclusively is obviously not a sustainable model.

"People crying at work is not acceptable" - Yeah well, there are lot of really weak people who can't handle any kind of stress. It certainly is a problem and something that needs to be looked at but this is the real world: it is stressful and having to deal with people who fail upwards is just how it is

True, but it's not a good condition for either the workers or the productivity and, hence, the company itself. There are steps that can be taken to mitigate this, as a project being mismanaged like this should not be "how it is". I realize the real world isn't an ideal scenario, but that doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be improved - particularly from our perspective, where the product obviously suffers.

"Frostbite sucks! Screw EA" - Bioware chose to use Frostbite despite knowing how hard of time they had with it pn Andromeda and knowing EA wouldn't give them support over Fifa.

I'm pretty sure the use of Frostbite was known to be a mandate from Soderlund across EA, rather than specifically BioWare's choice. They mentioned this in the article, and it's come up as an issue as far back as Dragon Age: Inquisition.


Calling this "real journalism" is a huge stretch since it only got one side of the story (understandbly, awful managers tend to not want to talk to anyone) and he got people who help push his "unions for everyone" narrative.

Granted, we have a very low standard for "real" journalism in the games industry. However, the fact that we have insider testimonies into a company's inner workings is a rare treat. Jason Schreier is really the only one who (occasionally) provides this.

The call to unionize really has nothing to do with the target audience for this article, anyways...that's between the workers and the developers/publishers, and if anyone knows what their industry is like, it's them. Gamers have no more authority than someone with an internet connection, a passing interest, and a big mouth. :laugh:

I'm not sure if it's sad that we as North Americans read an informative news article and only see an agenda, or if it's sad that every informative news article also has an agenda. It's probably one of those things, maybe a bit of both....either way, all I can tell you for sure is it makes me sad.



At the very least, it's interesting to hear about the issues with the engine, the diverting of resources, a flip-flopping design direction, and the lack of support. It all makes a lot of sense, really.
 
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syz

[1, 5, 6, 14]
Jul 13, 2007
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The article doesn't go hard enough on unionization, tbh. Schreier unfortunately comes across here as painting a picture of "life ruining crunch isn't benefiting the games" when the angle should instead be "life ruining crunch isn't benefiting the employees."

Otherwise the insights into the game's development are interesting in and of themselves. Failure the whole way down. Lots of egos at work, which is something that I remember hearing from a former employee a long time ago. Pretty sure I asked in this thread how a loot shooter could come out in 2019 and make some of the same mistakes that Destiny made in 2014, but then you read quotes in this article about how "Destiny" was apparently a bad word around the studio.
 
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Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
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I was about to write up a post about how Schreier and his dedicated fans are all-in on unionization (Schreier is very political) but I see Syz made that point in far quicker fashion!

I spent a lot of time last night reading reactions to this article and they almost all completely laughable. The article itself is fine of course, Schreier is very good at his job, my comments were aimed at the reactions rather than the article itself.
 

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