Bill Watters on AM640: Second arena in Toronto?

[Killion]

Regardless of who is right or wrong, the only way a 2nd team ends up in S.O. IMO is either a huge payout going to the Leafs or a huge court case where the Leafs fail to block it. Businesses do not willingly give up a monopoly.

Agreed, however, if the location being contemplated is Hamilton I seriously doubt MLSE's resolve in defending their turf would be nearly as fierce in comparison to almost anywhere else within the GTA proper, Markham, York, Mississauga..... Despite Ballards best efforts to ruin several generations of Leaf fans, I remain one, come Hell or Highwater. Frankly, I find the very thought of a 2nd Toronto team heretical, anarchistic, non-sensical & completely impracticable. The costs to indemnify, build, pay for the expansion etc would virtually guarantee the first & probably the 2nd owners bankruptcy's. I would no sooner deal so low a blow to Montreal, Chicago or anywhere else for that matter in trying to force a 2nd team into their markets. I find the very notion absurd, while alternately awarding a team to Hamilton is a complete & utter no brainer that MLSE & the Sabers could live with.

 

[Ripper]

Ooooohhh My G Oh Dee

Uncle Billy has been sippin the old "koolaide", probably out with that certain energy drink guy who told him he was buying a team...maybe this time an NHL type one hic!
This is what Bill Watters knows about hockey...
Gro-bo-gos-ski, he is not a player that should be on the leafs...useless as two t's on a bee as my old aunt reggie used to say...useless Ruskie not tough, not talented....what is he...useless duffer!...or words to that effect...

Grabovski could play on my team any day, he is tough as nails, talented and can fly, the Russian Gilmour of second line centres.
Anyway, there are far too many examples of how bad Watters is with hockey talent obsevations that even his radio partners shake their heads, you can hear them whirr in your left speaker if you listen close enough.

It may be time for Brad to start looking into homes for the once proud agent, and around the shuffle board he can entertain with his quips of idiocy, and likely get away with it there....leave the airways to those who actually know a thing or two about playing this great game of ours and please please, stop with these silly stories about 2nd teams arenas land purchased and being built...someone is smokin your pipe Billy!!!

 

[Killion]

...someone is smokin your pipe Billy!!!

Wow!. You have a serious dislike of Dear Wilbur.

 

[Ryan34222]

If the GTA gets a second team, then Hamilton might as well give up IMO. Three teams in the Golden Horseshoe is probably a stretch.

I agree with the bolded. 3 teams would work but it would have to go Hamilton in first than a TO2

 

[Kitsune]

if another large arena gets built ... its going to be in vaughn at the end of the spadina subway line. Its the only spot in outside of toronto that will have a subway.. and hence the perfect spot. I imagine it'll be about a 40 minute ride though to Bloor station.....

 

[Killion]

I agree with the bolded. 3 teams would work but it would have to go Hamilton in first than a TO2

Sorry Ryan. Your mistaken in projecting, figuratively, that another team in Toronto would be a slam dunk. Well do I remember the Toro's & that fatal episode. No my friend, the only place thats both logical & tenable is Hamilton-Wentworth, Copps.....
Ya nutz?....

 

[Melrose Munch]

was it every game? why did they stop? why don't I see every Sabres games like I do the Leafs This is their so called market isn't it ? I get every Bills game but when it comes to hockey completely shutout why is hockey different? hmm.


what will I do umm watch Hockey like I am now.

Every game. They signed a contract with empire sports in the 1990's with exclusivity. Naturally, that channel was not available in ontario.

 

[JawandaPuck]

You know, I hadn't thought about that but you make good sense. I had always figured further West and South, like Mississauga.

Yeah, in fact, a quick Google search revealed that Woodbine is already well down the road to developing this property...a large scale project called Woodbine Live. It will include residential, commercial, hotel, shopping and entertainment including a concert hall and outdoor rink...

A mélange of activity will appeal to a broad demographic, including offices, residences, shops, restaurants, a cinema complex, a 6,000-seat concert hall, a four-star hotel boasting 600 rooms, a 100,000 sq. ft. conference centre, clubs, pubs, canals and a skating rink.

Their partner is The Cordish Company, which is developing Philly Live (Philadelphia) with Comcast-Spectacor, and Ballpark Village (St. Louis) with the Cardinals, among other projects. See the artists rendering for what is either the concert hall or convention center here...

View attachment 45254


Probably wouldn't take much to alter the plan for the concert hall/convention centre to turn it into a 20K seat arena when one considers the possible return (a new NHL team for the GTA!). They could also easily put a GO Train Station on the south side of Woodbine where the rail already exists with the next stop being the Malton GO Station near Pearson, all connected to Union Station downtown (about 30-40 minutes away).

 

[GKJ]

RT @NHL_Oilers: News conference upcoming at City Hall for major #yegarena announcement.

Are we sure he didn't mean Edmonton?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yeah, in fact, a quick Google search revealed that Woodbine is already well down the road to developing this property...a large scale project called Woodbine Live. It will include residential, commercial, hotel, shopping and entertainment including a concert hall and outdoor rink...



Their partner is The Cordish Company, which is developing Philly Live (Philadelphia) and Ballpark Village (St. Louis), among other projects. See the artists rendering for what is either the concert hall or convention center here...

View attachment 45254


Probably wouldn't take much to alter the plan for the concert hall or convention centre to turn it into a 20K seat arena when one considers the possible return (a new NHL team for the GTA!). They could also easily put a GO Train Station on the south side of Woodbine where the rail already exists with the next stop being the Malton GO Station near Pearson, all connected to Union Station downtown (about 30-40 minutes away).

Sick man. I'm down already!!!

 

[bobbop]

I've certainly got enough to think about here in Phoenix but let me pose a question -- Would the Leafs be willing to have a second team play at ACC rather than see another arena (and competitor for non hockey events) spring up in TO? Between rent and a terriotorial rights fee, I'm sure they could afford to keep the lights on.

And as for an owner, I remember reading last summer that David Thompson's real motive in bringing a team to Winnipeg might be to pave the way to own the next Southern Ontario team. Hmmm...

 

[JMROWE]

Agreed, however, if the location being contemplated is Hamilton I seriously doubt MLSE's resolve in defending their turf would be nearly as fierce in comparison to almost anywhere else within the GTA proper, Markham, York, Mississauga..... Despite Ballards best efforts to ruin several generations of Leaf fans, I remain one, come Hell or Highwater. Frankly, I find the very thought of a 2nd Toronto team heretical, anarchistic, non-sensical & completely impracticable. The costs to indemnify, build, pay for the expansion etc would virtually guarantee the first & probably the 2nd owners bankruptcy's. I would no sooner deal so low a blow to Montreal, Chicago or anywhere else for that matter in trying to force a 2nd team into their markets. I find the very notion absurd, while alternately awarding a team to Hamilton is a complete & utter no brainer that MLSE & the Sabres could live with.

I totally agree with you Hamilton is a no brainer for the NHL. it would be the 5th largest market in the league & Hamilton is one of the best places to invest in the country . Some people mostly the bias Toronto media don't seem to get that it would cost between 1-2 billion dollars to put a second team in Toronto not mention the MLSE. won't let it happen because a 2nd team in there yard would cut into not just leaf profits but profits from other events like concerts , trade shows , mma\wrestling ect. .

 

[JMROWE]

Bill Watters & Bob Mccown are Toronto's resident BIG MOUTHS & they will shoot there mouth off at anything to get rattings it dose not matter if it is true or not especially if the topic is about anything Toronto . All this talk is here say about Toronto getting 2nd NHL. team there is no truth to it there is no serious ownership group has steped forward in Hamilton's case 3 billionares have steped forward seriously wanting to put NHL. team in Hamilton & I would not count Balsille out yet this is man that dose not give up easlly he still has all his money & he is just waiting to make his next move & that move might be on the coyotes since TNSE. & David Thompson have shifted there focus on the Thrashers for Winnipeg . If that 240 million dollar offer still stands that Balsille made you bet the NHL. would take it in a heart beat .

 

[dobiezeke*]

Bill Watters & Bob Mccown are Toronto's resident BIG MOUTHS & they will shoot there mouth off at anything to get rattings it dose not matter if it is true or not especially if the topic is about anything Toronto . All this talk is here say about Toronto getting 2nd NHL. team there is no truth to it there is no serious ownership group has steped forward in Hamilton's case 3 billionares have steped forward seriously wanting to put NHL. team in Hamilton & I would not count Balsille out yet this is man that dose not give up easlly he still has all his money & he is just waiting to make his next move & that move might be on the coyotes since TNSE. & David Thompson have shifted there focus on the Thrashers for Winnipeg . If that 240 million dollar offer still stands that Balsille made you bet the NHL. would take it in a heart beat .

Wow.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Wow.

Shocking eh?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Bill Watters & Bob Mccown are Toronto's resident BIG MOUTHS & they will shoot there mouth off at anything to get rattings it dose not matter if it is true or not especially if the topic is about anything Toronto . All this talk is here say about Toronto getting 2nd NHL. team there is no truth to it there is no serious ownership group has steped forward in Hamilton's case 3 billionares have steped forward seriously wanting to put NHL. team in Hamilton & I would not count Balsille out yet this is man that dose not give up easlly he still has all his money & he is just waiting to make his next move & that move might be on the coyotes since TNSE. & David Thompson have shifted there focus on the Thrashers for Winnipeg . If that 240 million dollar offer still stands that Balsille made you bet the NHL. would take it in a heart beat .

And it wont cost more for Hamilton? You would have to pay the leafs and the sabres.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

Wow, why are the Hamilton people so scared? This is just an idea.

A scary idea.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I just remembered that TSN has this special a little while back, where they looked at the various Canadian cities as options for an NHL team.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=326939

Long story short, they concluded that Toronto would be an excellent choice for a second NHL team, but... there's the little issue of the start up cost. How much? Well...

One way around the Leafs' perceived right to protect their territory - in theory - is with money. But paying off the Leafs, paying an expansion or relocation fee and then building an arena would add up to a very expensive proposition.

"You're talking about a pretty big number," said O'Reilly. "It's probably pushing a billion dollars if I forecast it in my mind. That's what it's going to cost."

... we're talking about a massive set-up cost. Not many groups have that much bank to throw around, and I'm not sure that those that do would be willing to wait so long before they turn a profit on such a massive investment.

 

[htpwn]

I just remembered that TSN has this special a little while back, where they looked at the various Canadian cities as options for an NHL team.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=326939

Long story short, they concluded that Toronto would be an excellent choice for a second NHL team, but... there's the little issue of the start up cost. How much? Well...

... we're talking about a massive set-up cost. Not many groups have that much bank to throw around, and I'm not sure that those that do would be willing to wait so long before they turn a profit on such a massive investment.

I think you would be looking at doing a few things to lessen your expenses...

1) You need a government funded arena. A $400 million arena is just not possible to most businessmen when you are spending $600 million on fees.

2) You might need to launch a court case arguing MLSE's against rights to the territory.

 

[nitroise]

if another large arena gets built ... its going to be in vaughn at the end of the spadina subway line. Its the only spot in outside of toronto that will have a subway.. and hence the perfect spot. I imagine it'll be about a 40 minute ride though to Bloor station.....

I agree. Vaughn has alot of stengths to make it the best fit to have a new arena. One of the main things as you pointed out is the expansion of the subway. As well as the fact that it is surrounded by two major highways going both N/S and E/W (although the 407 is a toll highway). Add to that the fact that it is centrally placed to attract fans from Markham, Toronto, Brampton, Barrie and Missisauga it has great potential. For the people that don't know Vaughn is a very "it" neighborhood that has been growing like crazy and could very well support a new team. However, traffic would be pretty bad but games usually take place around 7pm and traffic starts to loosen up around 6p, and after that there really isn't any significant traffic.

 

[JMROWE]

And it wont cost more for Hamilton? You would have to pay the leafs and the sabres.

The total cost of bringing an NHL. team to Hamilton would around 400 - 500 million dollars when factor in all the cost 240 million for the team that includes a golden handshake for glendale if it is the coyotes that move to Hamilton a 100 million to pay off the leafs & Sabres & 100 - 150 million to renovate Copps Coliseum .

Grand total of = 490 million

The total cost of bringing a 2nd team to Toronto would be around 1 billion dollars + when you factor in all the costs a new arena plus land for the arena 400 - 500 million paying off the leafs & Sabres 200 million the team alone 300 - 400 million not to mention possible legal costs that could range betwen 100 million because you can bet MLSE will & could tye this up in court for a whille & that is why a 2nd team in Toronto won't happen it just way just to costly

Grand total of = 1.2 billion

 

[MoreOrr]

What I can't understand from all of this is, if there's a chance that Toronto could get a second team, why, why would MLSE be more willing to allow that to happen than to simply allow a team in Hamilton? It seems absolutely and totally illogical.

 

[Bryan574]

What I can't understand from all of this is, if there's a chance that Toronto could get a second team, why, why would MLSE be more willing to allow that to happen than to simply allow a team in Hamilton? It seems absolutely and totally illogical.

Welcome to the club.

 

[MoreOrr]

Welcome to the club.

Oh, I've been part of "the club" since this news broke, but just too dumbfounded to comment, or basically believed it to be nonsense.

 

[Killion]

It seems absolutely and totally illogical.

I agree completely. It just doesnt make any practicable sense to me either. I'm sure a team in Markham or Downsview would do extremely well, however, it would be at the expense of MLSE & the ACC. Hamilton is just far enough away to ameliorate concerns over any tremendous loss of revenues (concerts etc) & would be a natural rival (for the Sabres as well), they have an arena, retro-fitted & good to go. Studies suggest the GTA & Southern Ontario could support 3 teams, and Im sure it could, but it doesnt make it sensible or rational.