Confirmed with Link: Bill Peters next head coach for Calgary

[JPeeper]

Stone is not a capable top 4 dman. He'll have 1 or 2 good games here or there, but he is an absolute dumpster fire back there. Guy is barely any better than Bartkowski defensively . Bart just has more glaring giveaways/breakdowns, but defensively they're both 0/10 usefulness.

My problem with Hamonic is it moved Brodie to his "proper" side when even fans know he is better on the right side. Now if we put Brodie and hammer both on the right we need to find 2 LD when Ras is another RD who should be there. Unless Vali and Kylington are both ready , Brodie going to be on the left again.

 

[Lunatik]

Stone is not a capable top 4 dman. He'll have 1 or 2 good games here or there, but he is an absolute dumpster fire back there. Guy is barely any better than Bartkowski defensively . Bart just has more glaring giveaways/breakdowns, but defensively they're both 0/10 usefulness.

My problem with Hamonic is it moved Brodie to his "proper" side when even fans know he is better on the right side. Now if we put Brodie and hammer both on the right we need to find 2 LD when Ras is another RD who should be there. Unless Vali and Kylington are both ready , Brodie going to be on the left again.

Stone is barely better defensively than Bartkowski?
Also, Brodie was playing the left side before Hamonic was acquired.

Try watching games dude. You might actually have an idea what you are talking about

 

[Fig]

Stone is not a capable top 4 dman. He'll have 1 or 2 good games here or there, but he is an absolute dumpster fire back there. Guy is barely any better than Bartkowski defensively . Bart just has more glaring giveaways/breakdowns, but defensively they're both 0/10 usefulness.

My problem with Hamonic is it moved Brodie to his "proper" side when even fans know he is better on the right side. Now if we put Brodie and hammer both on the right we need to find 2 LD when Ras is another RD who should be there. Unless Vali and Kylington are both ready , Brodie going to be on the left again.

Stone is a 4/5 on a more favorable contract than Kris Russell. I'm fine with his contract. Bartkowski is not better than Stone defensively nor overall. I really hope your comment is just pure hyperbole.

 

[The Gnome]

I honestly don't have an issue with Stone, moving him would be nice to save cap and add another pick while also creating roster space for another dman. He is a solid #5 dman imo.

 

[Lunatik]

I honestly don't have an issue with Stone, moving him would be nice to save cap and add another pick while also creating roster space for another dman. He is a solid #5 dman imo.

Exactly, this. I wouldn't even be shocked if he returned a 2nd tbh

 

[Mobiandi]

To me, Stone always looked quite good with Brodie upon acquiring him and when he was filling in for Hamonic. They seem to have more of a natural chemistry than Bro-Ham.

I don't like Stone on the third pairing very much though. He doesn't have as many opportunities to contribute offensively and Kulak doesn't cover for his mistakes in the Dzone nearly as well as Brodie does.

He should be traded this offseason because Andersson is ready but also because Stone is being wasted on the third pairing at his cap hit

 

[The Gnome]

Exactly, this. I wouldn't even be shocked if he returned a 2nd tbh

That would be the dream if we could get a 2018 2nd. I wouldn't even hesitate on that, it'd be great value for a player we can likely replace internally.

 

[Mr Snrub]

You can get a guy who does what Stone does for a mil and a half, if we got a second for him I'd be surprised but would certainly take it and run especially with Andersson knocking on the door.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

You can get a guy who does what Stone does for a mil and a half, if we got a second for him I'd be surprised but would certainly take it and run especially with Andersson knocking on the door.

There are not that many guys getting paid that much that can slide into a top 4 role in a pinch that aren't on bridge deals or rookies. Would I prefer he's close to 2.75-3 or argue he's unnecessary given the young guys coming up? Yeah sure. But there are not that many players in his age range getting that pay level you suggest.

 

[The Gnome]

There are not that many guys getting paid that much that can slide into a top 4 role in a pinch that aren't on bridge deals or rookies. Would I prefer he's close to 2.75-3 or argue he's unnecessary given the young guys coming up? Yeah sure. But there are not that many players in his age range getting that pay level you suggest.

With our depth at D, he's expendable with the talent we have in the pipeline. We could really use another 3rd round pick, if we somehow got a 2nd I'd be laughing. The kids have to play at some point, and if an injury to the top 4 happens then you role with it. I'm not a strictly futures guys, but having a pick before the 4th round should be a priority.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

You can get a guy who does what Stone does for a mil and a half, if we got a second for him I'd be surprised but would certainly take it and run especially with Andersson knocking on the door.

Honestly think of what we could do annually with the cap space we have into:

- Stone - 3.5M
- Brouwer - 4.5 M
- Frolik - 4.5M

That's 12.5M For the less money you could have signed a single 8.0M perceived "bad contract" and had a more dangerous overall roster with more cap space. Fill the rest internally.

All low-ceiling UFA signings. I think "the middle" is where you can screw up in UFA. Go after a star or don't go UFA at all.

I've seen Tre and Burke throw around the idea that term is a mistake but I disagree. You can screw up with term if you're the Edmonton Oilers and you just signed an un-needed Lucic to six years, but the players who get term in UFA are usually the players who can elevate a team and fill an actual need. Even a guy like Zach Parise has to be looked as overall a more successful signing than any of our short term, low risk low reward signings. Marian Hossa may be the best UFA signing in the history of the post cap era along with Zdeno Chara.

 

[Lunatik]

select 3 guys from 3 different UFA classes and complains saying that money could go towards a single player. #okglogic

 

[Anglesmith]

One of those contracts doesn't belong.

Frolik has been a good signing. Bad year last year which appeared to be de-railed by his injury, but that seemingly happens to every player at some point.

That said, there is something to be said about just refusing to sign a UFA until you have the space for a big one.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

select 3 guys from 3 different UFA classes and complains saying that money could go towards a single player. #okglogic

I didn't know teams were obligated to spend to the cap after every UFA class.

One of those contracts doesn't belong.

Frolik has been a good signing. Bad year last year which appeared to be de-railed by his injury, but that seemingly happens to every player at some point.

That said, there is something to be said about just refusing to sign a UFA until you have the space for a big one.

Frolik is a mediocre signing. We wouldn't be much worse without him and Winnipeg hardly misses him. He completely fits the profile of spending too much on mediocre pieces. He's movable, but he's still an inefficient use of cap. The Blackhawks show that you can get your AHL guys - the Hinostrozas and Hartmans in that role for cheap. The guys you need to spend on are the Hossa or Panarin types.

 

[JPeeper]

Stone is a 4/5 on a more favorable contract than Kris Russell. I'm fine with his contract. Bartkowski is not better than Stone defensively nor overall. I really hope your comment is just pure hyperbole.

I didn't say Bart is better defensively, they play the same dumbass defensive style though, take the body at all times and completely ignore the puck. It's why they win 0 puck battles, it's why they are always hemmed in the zone, it's why Stone takes so many holding penalties. Defensively they are both atrocious train wrecks. Difference is is that Stone isn't an idiot and throw it up the middle 2 or 3 times a game leading to huge turn overs like Bart. Stone isn't that great offensively, yeah he has a cannon of a shot, but it takes him forever to get it off and this day and age in the NHL it will just get blocked most times.

Stone has a terrible contract, just because it is better than Russell's doesn't make it good, it's still terrible. All it is doing is closing a spot for Andersson and Fox to step in because our management has no faith in rookies making mistakes when vets make just as many, have no room to grow, and are worse overall.

It's the same fallacy people have with thinking Engelland is any good. He isn't, his partner (when Brodie went God mode) just covers up for him.

 

[The Gnome]

I didn't say Bart is better defensively, they play the same dumbass defensive style though, take the body at all times and completely ignore the puck. It's why they win 0 puck battles, it's why they are always hemmed in the zone, it's why Stone takes so many holding penalties. Defensively they are both atrocious train wrecks. Difference is is that Stone isn't an idiot and throw it up the middle 2 or 3 times a game leading to huge turn overs like Bart. Stone isn't that great offensively, yeah he has a cannon of a shot, but it takes him forever to get it off and this day and age in the NHL it will just get blocked most times.

Stone has a terrible contract, just because it is better than Russell's doesn't make it good, it's still terrible. All it is doing is closing a spot for Andersson and Fox to step in because our management has no faith in rookies making mistakes when vets make just as many, have no room to grow, and are worse overall.

It's the same fallacy people have with thinking Engelland is any good. He isn't, his partner (when Brodie went God mode) just covers up for him.

I'd say you are over selling how "terrible" Stone is. He's a very typical #5 dman. That said, with the youth in the pipeline, we have no need for him or the contract. Trade for a pick.

 

[Anglesmith]

Frolik is a mediocre signing. We wouldn't be much worse without him and Winnipeg hardly misses him. He completely fits the profile of spending too much on mediocre pieces. He's movable, but he's still an inefficient use of cap. The Blackhawks show that you can get your AHL guys - the Hinostrozas and Hartmans in that role for cheap. The guys you need to spend on are the Hossa or Panarin types.

The Blackhawks haven't won a playoff game since they started really stripping down the roster and relying on the Hinostrozas and Kampfs of the world to play a regular shift. They aren't proving that you can be successful with such mediocre players in key roles, they're just showing you can do it and not finish last.

The Winnipeg Jets don't miss Frolik. Sure. Is that really a strong point to make? The Jets have had Ehlers, Laine, Connor, Roslovic, Armia, Tanev, etc. etc. etc. join the team over the past few years. And it's worth mentioning that they didn't have any success until these guys were difference-makers, which was this year for most of them. Before this year, they definitely missed him. If the Flames had that kind of talent pushing up, Frolik would definitely be expendable here. But the Flames don't look like they'll have that for one, maybe two more years, which fits his contract nicely IMO. You don't actually have to fully guess whether we would be much worse without him. Just look at how much worse the Flames were after Frolik's season went down the toilet. They were a playoff team with Frolik playing like himself. When he was injured or turned replacement-level, they were much worse. That's the ultimate small sample-size evidence, but if I had to guess one way or another, I'd say there is more to suggest he is needed.

 

[Fig]

I'm really sorry to delegate, but I want to know the man games lost under Peters v Gully and I can't find access at first glance to neither 2017/2018 or 2016/2017 without needing to be a member somewhere.

IIRC man games lost under Gully was stupidly low and most of it were from only about 3 players or so (Jagr, Versteeg and Smith). I want to have an idea what Peter's man games lost in Carolina is as I am wondering whether the kids may suddenly have a shot at playing on the roster without the need to trade certain pieces like Stone. Andersson might actually pull out 15-20 games without being handed a spot not trading Stone. I think we really need to evaluate whether we should trade pieces to allow kids to play (ridiculous health due to Gully), or if Peter's new style will allow kids to play anyways (closer to Hartley man games lost).

 

[Anglesmith]

I'm really sorry to delegate, but I want to know the man games lost under Peters v Gully and I can't find access at first glance to neither 2017/2018 or 2016/2017 without needing to be a member somewhere.

IIRC man games lost under Gully was stupidly low and most of it were from only about 3 players or so (Jagr, Versteeg and Smith). I want to have an idea what Peter's man games lost in Carolina is as I am wondering whether the kids may suddenly have a shot at playing on the roster without the need to trade certain pieces like Stone. Andersson might actually pull out 15-20 games without being handed a spot not trading Stone. I think we really need to evaluate whether we should trade pieces to allow kids to play (ridiculous health due to Gully), or if Peter's new style will allow kids to play anyways (closer to Hartley man games lost).

Last year, Carolina was second-lowest in the league with only 100 man-games lost all season.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I'm really sorry to delegate, but I want to know the man games lost under Peters v Gully and I can't find access at first glance to neither 2017/2018 or 2016/2017 without needing to be a member somewhere.

IIRC man games lost under Gully was stupidly low and most of it were from only about 3 players or so (Jagr, Versteeg and Smith). I want to have an idea what Peter's man games lost in Carolina is as I am wondering whether the kids may suddenly have a shot at playing on the roster without the need to trade certain pieces like Stone. Andersson might actually pull out 15-20 games without being handed a spot not trading Stone. I think we really need to evaluate whether we should trade pieces to allow kids to play (ridiculous health due to Gully), or if Peter's new style will allow kids to play anyways (closer to Hartley man games lost).

Peters MGL was even lower.

 

[Lunatik]

The Blackhawks haven't won a playoff game since they started really stripping down the roster and relying on the Hinostrozas and Kampfs of the world to play a regular shift. They aren't proving that you can be successful with such mediocre players in key roles, they're just showing you can do it and not finish last.

The Winnipeg Jets don't miss Frolik. Sure. Is that really a strong point to make? The Jets have had Ehlers, Laine, Connor, Roslovic, Armia, Tanev, etc. etc. etc. join the team over the past few years. And it's worth mentioning that they didn't have any success until these guys were difference-makers, which was this year for most of them. Before this year, they definitely missed him. If the Flames had that kind of talent pushing up, Frolik would definitely be expendable here. But the Flames don't look like they'll have that for one, maybe two more years, which fits his contract nicely IMO. You don't actually have to fully guess whether we would be much worse without him. Just look at how much worse the Flames were after Frolik's season went down the toilet. They were a playoff team with Frolik playing like himself. When he was injured or turned replacement-level, they were much worse. That's the ultimate small sample-size evidence, but if I had to guess one way or another, I'd say there is more to suggest he is needed.

To add to this, Jets fans went on for 1-2 years about how they missed Frolik

 

[Fig]

Yeah, if the man games lost is so low, we gotta move bodies if the kids are to play. I'm not against the idea of moving excess pieces, but on some occasions, I think it makes more sense to move the kid than the vet due to the prices available for our players.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

The Blackhawks haven't won a playoff game since they started really stripping down the roster and relying on the Hinostrozas and Kampfs of the world to play a regular shift.

And? Frolik hasn't won a playoff game since he left the Blackhawks, where he was a fourth line checker.

They aren't proving that you can be successful with such mediocre players in key roles, they're just showing you can do it and not finish last.

What they are proving is that mediocre players like Honstroza et al are no worse than a mediocre player like Frolik.

The Winnipeg Jets don't miss Frolik. Sure. Is that really a strong point to make?

It certainly is. We're spending 4.5 million dollars a year on the guy.

They were a playoff team with Frolik playing like himself. When he was injured or turned replacement-level, they were much worse. That's the ultimate small sample-size evidence, but if I had to guess one way or another, I'd say there is more to suggest he is needed.

They were a playoff team while Frolik was injured. Did Frolik even play during the seven game winning streak / eleven game point streak? Suddenly he comes back and we flop out. This is a guy who has to be playing at 100% to be a marginally positive impact player. Which is fine for an AHL callup like Foo or Mangiapane on a dirt cheap contract.

Look, I think we could move Frolik's contract, and I think we should. You don't build strong teams paying guys of his caliber the kind of money he makes. The money has to go to the top of your roster and the support has to come from the bottom. There is no room for a so-called middle class of his sort.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I know there's going to be some overlap, but please try and keep the strictly Armchair GM stuff in the proper thread.

kthxbye.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Frolik had a bad year, but to suggest he was a bad signing I think is ridiculous. Our RW depth with him in the lineup is god awful, take him out and we're fighting to escape the top 5. He's also been an insturmental piece of our PK since he's arrived, and besides offensively this year at the very least a successful passenger on the best two way line in the league.

You want to point fingers OKG, look at your boys Jankowski and Bennett. We needed depth scoring from guys on cheaper contracts like you suggest (Hartmans, Hino, etc) and both of them didn't produce enough.
You said Bennett would emerge as a true #1 C when/if Monahan was gone. Where was he to end the season then?