Bill Ny the contractless guy (part 8)

[Bluelines]

If Hyman can get a partial NTC.......

Did he really?

I bet if you asked the 30 other GM's who Hyman was and what position he played 50% would have no clue who he was.

The words, "What do you want for Hyman?", will never come out of an opposing GM's mouth.

 

[Mess]

i'm guessing at these numbers they're not buying into Dubie's "vision"

Whenever Dubas speaks it always comes across as he's speaking through rose-coloured glasses .. "We before Me", "We can afford all of them", "We'll get them all signed long-term, no problem" etc etc.

I can't tell if that is simply unbridled cockeyed optimism, inexperience at the job, or putting on a brave face for public perception through the media.

If there is any truth to that "sticking together as one group" pack mentality then it does explain Nylander's rumoured $8 mil asking range as it would be based off of Mitch and Matthews next contracts and not present day comparables.

In a way I can see that position from the 3 Amigo's perspective, because if there were to be a +$2 mil or more gap between each player and they all produce similar stats (ie close to PPG) and all 3 feel they're in this together long-term and important parts of the core than their own version of "We before Me" also applies to them by sticking together and negotiating as one, to avoid future hard feelings and regrets.

Dubas getting a +$500k break on all 3 contracts for each player taking less individually, but only in an all or nothing scenario saving the Leafs ~$1.5 mil combined cap to be used towards other players to satisfy Dubas "We before Me" contract savings.

 

[Nithoniniel]

On Leafs Lunch yesterday, Andi mused that one of the reasons Willie is holding out is he is concerned that if he signs a mid to low $6 mil contract that makes him easier to trade than if he signs in the 7's or 8's, one of the other commentators on the show said that where his dad played on 7 teams in the NHL he knows better than anyone, you are just a commodity and he could be influencing his son's decision making.

Interesting slant on the contract discussions. I think it's not just one thing, I think its a little from column "A" a little from column "B" a little from column "C" , he want to get paid, he wants assurances that he will not be traded, he wants assurances that he will get good ice time (believe it or not agents try to negotiate this, IE my player will get X amount of ATOI, will play on the PP at least X amount of ATOI each year, etc.)

I find that to be weird logic. If Willy signs a cheap contract, it will make him much more valuable to the Leafs compared to the market as we'll need to squeeze out as much impact per cap dollar as we can. If he gets a long-term contract in the low $6M range, he's among the safest players on our league.

Ponder that he and Marner maintain their relative performance going forward. That might mean that Marner hits PPG, and Nylander a bit under. Marner gets a case for a significantly bigger contract compared to Willy. If they stay close, who is the first to go? Willy at $6, or Marner at $8? But if Willy was at $7.5, that scenario changes.

 

[MyBudJT]

Will ny "Dreger talking **** as usual" guy

It’s been reported by both TSN and SN that WN is asking for Draisatl money

 

[ShaneFalco]

Did he really?

I bet if you asked the 30 other GM's who Hyman was and what position he played 50% would have no clue who he was.

The words, "What do you want for Hyman?", will never come out of an opposing GM's mouth.

Nope

CLAUSE DETAILS: Player submits a 10 team no trade list.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Whenever Dubas speaks it always comes across as he's speaking through rose-coloured glasses .. "We before Me"

Yeah, you'd never catch for example Lou saying something about team before individual. Only inexperienced, naive kids like Dubas says things like that. He'd obviously also never allude to wanting to sign core players long-term.

If there is any truth to that "sticking together as one group" pack mentality then it does explain Nylander's rumoured $8 mil asking range as it would be based off of Mitch and Matthews next contracts and not present day comparables.

Obvious answer, there isn't. It was an initial bid. Just like every other initial bid in every other negotiation, it wasn't an intended target.

I don't get you, Mess. Sometimes it seems you actually want things to be as bleak as possible.

 

[Walshy7]

It’s been reported by both TSN and SN that WN is asking for Draisatl money

Who works for TSN? do you believe TSN would shoot down their own employee's info? SN it was kypreos stating it again im not sure aobut you but he really gets nothing right and wouldn't surprise me if he just took dregers info and attributed to "sources".

The fact dreger retracted tells you all you need to know

edit: by the way im talking about asking right now for $8M, its very possible he started at $8M because that's how negotiations work the leafs probably started at $5M

 

[ACC1224]

Is he signed yet?

 

[ZEBROA]

Is he signed yet?

Yep a week ago, Dubas and Willy are just dragging it out watching this thread derail while eating popcorn.

 

[glue]

Willy hurry up!

 

[Mess]

I doubt it, seems (from the outside looking in) that Marner and Matthews are best buds but they aren't that close to nylander to say "all 3 of us sign similar numbers". Marner and Matthews I can totally see that which is dangerous because marner isn't close to Matthews in value, so unless Matthews is planning on a discount that would raise marner AAV pretty high

We all believe Matthews is getting around $11 mil and there have been reports of Marner camp asking around $10 mil and with the $8 mil number being tossed out for public consumption as Nylander's ask than this is not so far fetched an idea.

As a group if all are offering 8 year terms than Matthews @$11 mil & Marner @ $9-$9.5 mil and Nylander at $8-8.5 mil range does qualify as keeping the gap difference close from one to another and ranked according impact long-term.

Those are not #'s Dubas is going to like TODAY, if he believes he is getting Nylander at $6.5 mil locked up, but strength in numbers would support the negotiating position of the trio as one.

This idea is also not too far fetched as Patty Kane and Toews agents got together and both players inked identical $10.5 mil contracts together to avoid any internal in regards to team and Monahan and Johnny Hockey used it as did Hall and Eberle in the past.

Quote: https://calgaryherald.com/sports/ho...r-calgary-flames-free-agents-gaudreau-monahan

Identical deals could be in picture for Calgary Flames free agents Gaudreau, Monahan

There’s a precedent for star teammates to ink identical deals simultaneously.

Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle did it in Edmonton when they signed $6-million-per-year extensions three years ago.

And Chicago Blackhawks studs Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews signed matching eight-year, $84-million in 2014.

So, how about it, Johnny? “Yeah, we’ve talked about it at times,” Gaudreau said. “But we have different agents and they probably don’t see eye-to-eye. “They probably think their player deserves more. Me and Sean love playing together and we love being in the city of Calgary.

“So if it was up to us, I think we would sign the same deal and get back after it next season. But the agents are smart and they’re professionals at what they do. I trust my agent (Lewis Gross). He looks after me and does a lot for me.” .....................

PS .. Check out the agent Louis Gross who just happens to be William Nylander's agent and been in this situation before ..

 

[Field of Dreams]

Dubas needs to start leaking trade rumors to Ottawa

 

[Leaf Fans]

Did he really?

I bet if you asked the 30 other GM's who Hyman was and what position he played 50% would have no clue who he was.

The words, "What do you want for Hyman?", will never come out of an opposing GM's mouth.

I don't believe that for one second. He is a very good player.

 

[diceman934]

even McKenzie has no info on these contract negotiations yet everyone wants to keep spouting off about nylander being greedy because he is asking for $8M? Which dreger retracted, yet still gets brought up

What is you guess of his ask. It would have to be significantly higher then the offer on the table for it to be not done yet. I would be shocked if he was not asking for 8m at some point in the negotiations, why anyone would be offended by such a thought is surprising.

Where the Nylander camp is right now on their ask is anyone’s guess but I would think anyone with a heart beat can figure out where the Leafs are in their offer. It is between 6m to 6.75 for 7 to 8 years.

If it goes to a bridge deal of say 3 years he is not getting a sniff at anything close to 6m.

What is your guess at what Nylander is asking for?

 

[diceman934]

You just don't know good contracts man...Ehlers is on a great deal and inflation is pushing the numbers up

He also scored a lot more goals, correct.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

The notion that of Rielly has a couple more points, he would have been paid significantly more money...

Quotas, dude.

 

[Confucius]

Still not traded? Just mkae a hockey trade him for a young RHD FFS.

Problem may be the rest of the league doesn't think he's as good as we do, a 6 million dollar player.

 

[nsleaf]

Did he really?

I bet if you asked the 30 other GM's who Hyman was and what position he played 50% would have no clue who he was.

The words, "What do you want for Hyman?", will never come out of an opposing GM's mouth.

Wow 50 % you say? Do you really believe that?

 

[Trapper]

He also scored a lot more goals, correct.

Why didn’t Lou sign him last year when Ehlers/Pastrnak were signing?

If you have time use it, except when the time is not right to wait.

 

[ArtRoss]

What is you guess of his ask. It would have to be significantly higher then the offer on the table for it to be not done yet. I would be shocked if he was not asking for 8m at some point in the negotiations, why anyone would be offended by such a thought is surprising.

Where the Nylander camp is right now on their ask is anyone’s guess but I would think anyone with a heart beat can figure out where the Leafs are in their offer. It is between 6m to 6.75 for 7 to 8 years.

If it goes to a bridge deal of say 3 years he is not getting a sniff at anything close to 6m.

What is your guess at what Nylander is asking for?

I'd assume he's looking for roughly $8M. The middle ground will be $7M and I think it'll get done long term (6-8 years) for $7Mish.

 

[Nineteen67]

Speaking of speculating, during the intermission a couple games back now Elliot Friedman was saying that from his "sources" he believes that all 3 of the kids don't want to have a big gap difference in their next long term contracts.

He was suggesting that Nylander and Marner next deals being essentially $1 mil or less in difference on term.

Matthews @$11 mil and Marner at ~$8.5 mil- $9 and Nylander $7.5 mil to $8 in demands.

Makes one wonder if the 3 amigo's are negotiating as the 3 Musketeers as in their motto "One for all and all for one".. It would perhaps explain why none of the new contracts are done.

I don’t see how 39 million on 4 players (all forwards) works. Let’s assume the cap goes to 81 million next year that’s still 48% of the cap.

When JT signed and Dubas said he could make it fit I don’t think he was looking at 8 million for Nylander.

 

[diceman934]

Why didn’t Lou sign him last year when Ehlers/Pastrnak were signing?

If you have time use it, except when the time is not right to wait.

Nylander clearly communicated that he was not willing to sign last year. He bet on him self and lost.

 

[Walshy7]

What is you guess of his ask. It would have to be significantly higher then the offer on the table for it to be not done yet. I would be shocked if he was not asking for 8m at some point in the negotiations, why anyone would be offended by such a thought is surprising.

Where the Nylander camp is right now on their ask is anyone’s guess but I would think anyone with a heart beat can figure out where the Leafs are in their offer. It is between 6m to 6.75 for 7 to 8 years.

If it goes to a bridge deal of say 3 years he is not getting a sniff at anything close to 6m.

What is your guess at what Nylander is asking for?

right, totally agree at some point as in first ask was likely around $8M but as I said in a different post Dubas fist number would have been low, its how negotiations work.

$750K difference between $6M and $6.75, if the leafs are at $6.75 and Nylander is at $7.25 that's totally different than $6M and $7.25 isn't it? so anyone with a heart beat still is way off no? so if Dubas is sticking to low 6's by 8 years and Nylander is sticking to low 7's that explains it doesn't it?.

Id say for 8 years he is looking for a touch above $7M, and for the record I don't think he is worth that as of right now but he is factoring in growth and UFA years bought up and I think Dubas is trying to stick in the low 6's. It proably gets done for $6.75 day before camp. Nylander's manager seeing what happens if he waits out a rookie GM and if he caves to $7.25m or not, I don't think he does cave that much both see the game of bluff of the other and the deal gets done for 8 years

 

[Nineteen67]

It’s been reported by both TSN and SN that WN is asking for Draisatl money

When was it reported?

 

[56 Years No Cup]

I'd assume he's looking for roughly $8M. The middle ground will be $7M and I think it'll get done long term (6-8 years) for $7Mish.

That's an overpay.