News Article: Bill Meltzer: How the 2011 draft went down for the Flyers

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Flyers' started by BernieParent, Jun 12, 2018.

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  1. BernieParent

    BernieParent Just living with my wrongness.

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    Bill M's piece was an interesting read on the account of how Paul Holmgren pulled off the Richards and Carter trades, and ended up with the 8th overall pick in the 2011 draft (among other pieces). I do have to say, though, that my enjoyment of the article was tainted – not by your writing, Bill! ;) – by the list of picks that Holmgren had dealt away, including their 1st (25th overall) for Chris Versteeg. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

    I thought a revisit of this draft would be fun, with absolute 20/20 hindsight, on how the Flyers could have put these picks to use.


    Flyers traded away:

    • 1st (25) for Chris Versteeg

    – Toronto chose Stuart Percy (bust)

    – Could have had:

    - William Karlsson (53)

    - John Gibson (39)

    - Brandon Saad (43)

    - Boone Jenner (37)

    - Vlad Namestnikov (27)

    - Philip Danault (26)

    - Rikard Rakell (30)

    • 2nd (56) for Carcillo

    – Arizona chose Lucas Lessio (bust)

    – Could have had:

    - Nikita Kucherov (58)

    - Vincent Trocheck (64)

    • 3rd (84) for Bryzgalov – pick was from Pitt for Hamhuis rights

    • 3rd (86) for Chris Versteeg

    – Arizona chose Harrison Ruopp (bust)

    – Toronto chose Josh Leivo (good pick)

    – Could have had:

    - Johnny Gaudreau (104) – Doh!!!

    - Jean-Gabriel Pageau (96)

    - Andrew Shaw (139)

    - Nikita Nesterov (148)

    - Josh Manson (160)

    - Jyrki Jokipakka (195)

    - Ryan Dzingel (204)

    - Ondrej Palat (208) – 2 after the great Derek Mathers
    For those of you who are just aching to point out that all of the teams messed up, notably everyone but Calgary for not scouting Gaudreau better or Columbus (except ... Vegas) for waiting until late in the second round to get Karlsson. But it's just another reminder about the potential value of even late-round picks. The Flyers punted their 7th rounder for a knuckle-dragger and two picks later Tampa nabs a winger with 253 points in 363 NHL games.

    The counter-argument is that neither Toronto nor Arizona really took full advantage of the picks they received from Philadelphia, although Leivo in the 3rd was a decent pick.

    Oh, crystal ball, why did you fail us so?

     
  2. Striiker

    Striiker Hot dogs are sandwiches

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    1st for Versteeg... ugh

    But if we didn't trade for him, we wouldn't have Ghost, I guess.
     
  3. LegionOfDoom91

    LegionOfDoom91 Registered User

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    That’s why I don’t even care at this point. :laugh:
     
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  4. Striiker

    Striiker Hot dogs are sandwiches

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    Yup, I take Ghost over any of those 1st rounds we missed on.
     
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  5. Magua

    Magua 5 For Tomahawking

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    It pisses me off that Kucherov goes #58 overall after having 21 points in 7 games at the u18s, a record. Yakupov, only 3 months younger, has 13 points and goes #1 next year. Kucherov torched the MHL too. It's so self-defeatist I can't stand it. There are players who get drafted and over perform and surprise and while the signs are there, you can't criticize anyone either. Then there are players who get drafted and you look back and think......

    [​IMG]
     
  6. BernieParent

    BernieParent Just living with my wrongness.

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    Yeah, that is the fun part; following the spiderweb of if-thens.
     
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  7. Striiker

    Striiker Hot dogs are sandwiches

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    You can drive yourself crazy trying to think about that kind of butterfly effect stuff.

    Not just for hockey, obviously.
     
  8. BernieParent

    BernieParent Just living with my wrongness.

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    Too true. I am far from obsessing that the Flyers missed out on Gaudreau, for example. It was just a walk down Wasted Asset Lane that exited at the beautiful intersection of Ghost and Bear.
     
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  9. DrinkFightFlyers

    DrinkFightFlyers Provolone & The Neck Sponsor

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    Yeah you can't look at the what could have been because we don't even know who they would have selected. We could have picked garbage like Kevin Marshall (best known for his dance moves on 24/7) two picks ahead of PK Subban.
     
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  10. Tripod

    Tripod Registered User

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    And worse yet...traded UP to take Marshall.
     
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  11. DrinkFightFlyers

    DrinkFightFlyers Provolone & The Neck Sponsor

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    :ha::ha::ha:
     
  12. Lindberg

    Lindberg Bennyflyers16 get a life

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    It is interesting that the Flyers came pretty close to taking Voracek, the 15th OA and the 21st OA for the 2nd overall. I think its somewhat telling that the Flyers weren't over the moon with JVR.
     
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  13. Deadpool8812

    Deadpool8812 Registered User

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    Obviously not considering what they ended up trading him for
     
  14. GoneFullHextall

    GoneFullHextall Cautiously pessimistic pretty much all the time

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    makes you wonder what kind of butterfly effect would of happened had the Flyers drafted PK Subban instead of Marshall.
     
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  15. Deadpool8812

    Deadpool8812 Registered User

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    Ahhh Kevin Marshall. I remember one of the Mods here claiming he would be a regular for the Flyers after his short injury call up stint. I said he would never play in the NHL again...
     
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  16. GoneFullHextall

    GoneFullHextall Cautiously pessimistic pretty much all the time

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    in that same draft the Leafs traded the 30th OV and the 39 OV to the Ducks for the 22nd OV.

    Anaheim took Rickard Rackell at 30 and John Gibson at 39.
    Toronto took Tyler Biggs with the 22 OV.
     
  17. Deadpool8812

    Deadpool8812 Registered User

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    Brian Burke at his finest
     
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  18. Beef Invictus

    Beef Invictus Baboon Invictus

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    Yeah, it worked out. At the time I was OK with Versteeg basically being our 1st round pick, he was young enough that it was a whatever. Even though I'm not a fan of that mindset. But then he was traded away again for a loss immediately, so it all seemed damned pointless. If Ghost didn't happen, it would've been extremely pointless.
     
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  19. Ghosts Beer

    Ghosts Beer Registered User

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    It's amazing how many draft picks Holmgren pissed away. Not only in lousy trade-deadline trades, but also for "negotiating rights."
     
  20. CS

    CS Bryzgalov's Blueline

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    I mean...he was great until he got hurt if I remember correctly.

    It honestly reminds me a lot of all the people here who swore Pat Maroon would never play an NHL game. I got a lot of grief for telling people that he had the hands of an NHLer even if he was slow.

    Ah well.

    All this hindsight stuff is a weird web. Remember the Eminger trade? That pick turned out to be Johnny Carlson...so yeah.
     
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  21. Garbage Goal

    Garbage Goal Registered User

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    Yeah, the Eminger trade sticks out for me more than anything that was in the OP.

    With Maroon, I thought he might have been able to bring something. My big thing with him at the time, and with all prospects, is that he was never given a shot at the NHL with us so how are we supposed to know if the team doesn't even attempt to find out? Drove me crazy. Still relevant to me today as well with several prospects.
     
  22. Deadpool8812

    Deadpool8812 Registered User

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    Well.....Marshall was never great. He only got that stint with the Flyers because we had so many injuries on the blueline. And when he did play, he barely played because it was obvious that he wasn't ready (then...or ever) for the NHL.
     
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  23. deadhead

    deadhead Registered User

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    My rule is to look only at the ten picks after your pick, i.e. the guys you reasonably could have taken as alternatives - further out too many teams passed on the player for him to be a "no brainer."

    When evaluating a trade for a draft pick, the player actually taken is irrelevant, unless in the case of Frost, the trade was made with a specific player as the target.
    The pick's value is the expected value of the player at that point in the draft, the actual player is a crap shoot.
     
  24. Jtown

    Jtown Registered User

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    imagine if we got those 3 picks from montreal. That alone may have won us the stanley cup.
     
  25. FLYguy3911

    FLYguy3911 Registered User

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    But it says you joined HF on Feb 10 2018...
    [​IMG]

    Marshall blew. Bourdon was somewhat decent until his brain turned to mush.
     

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