Biggest snub from NHL Top 10 list (2018)

[DRW204]

Kopitar had 92 points and won the Selke

Mackinnon had 97 pts in 74 gp and 2nd in Hart voting

IMO id take those guys easily over Matthews at 10. I think it's tough to gage different rankings and valuation across Fwds and D also

edit - I wish these lists would publicize a term or over what period of time they are ranking these players. Some people bringing up Mack's rookie season like it has any bearing on the ranking of how Mackinnon played last year. Don't care he put up 60 pts or w/e in his rookie year, last year he was a top 10 player

 

[Connor McConnor]

[mod]

Kane, Kopitar and MacK all deserve to be in there ahead of Matthews and Hall AINEC.

 

[Halla]

Matthews now has the most ES goals since he entered the league.
1 more than McDavid, in 19 less games.

0.5241 per game. moves him ahead of stamkos in goals/gm into 2nd among active players behind ONLY ovechkin.
200 ft game, great on draws, clutch player

but yeah he isn't top 10 because he is a leaf!

 

[Halla]

Kopitar had 92 points and won the Selke

Mackinnon had 97 pts in 74 gp and 2nd in Hart voting

IMO id take those guys easily over Matthews at 10. I think it's tough to gage different rankings and valuation across Fwds and D also

edit - I wish these lists would publicize a term or over what period of time they are ranking these players. Some people bringing up Mack's rookie season like it has any bearing on the ranking of how Mackinnon played last year. Don't care he put up 60 pts or w/e in his rookie year, last year he was a top 10 player

gotta be a body of work no? Matthews has been a 40g player and a ppg+ player in his two seasons.
Mackinnon had a bunch of 20g/50-60pts ish seasons before 1 massive year

you dismiss rookie seasons pretty easily but how about the other three 53pts and under?

full season pace

AM34: 43g/76pts
NM : 25g/66pts

i know who im taking

 

[Halla]

Because he's never broken 70 points. He's never played a full season, and there's players overall that are just better than him. He'll get there soon I'm sure of that, but he just isn't there quite yet.

hard to take your comment seriously when you spit out lies like this. he played 82 games his rookie year. got 40g.
also he had 63pts in 62 pts last year. that is >>> a guy with 70pts in 82 games. if healthy he will crush that this year.

47g/85pt pace since last year. monster

 

[Sasso09]

Giroux isn't better than MacKinnon offensively.

Based on exactly what? MacKinnon has been in the league 5 years. Hasn't outscored Giroux once.

Player A: 677 points in 738 games career 0.92 PPG top 3 seasons 102, 93, 86

Player B: 303 pts in 370 games, career PPG 0.81, top 3 seasons 97, 63, 53

much higher career PPG, much longer body of work, never been outscored in a single season

 

[Echo Roku]

Based on exactly what? MacKinnon has been in the league 5 years. Hasn't outscored Giroux once.

Player A: 677 points in 738 games career 0.92 PPG top 3 seasons 102, 93, 86

Player B: 303 pts in 370 games, career PPG 0.81, top 3 seasons 97, 63, 53

much higher career PPG, much longer body of work, never been outscored in a single season

Had a ton better offensive season than him last year.

We both know why you're saying "hasn't outscored him any given season"

 

[Panthaz89]

Kopitar had 90+ and won the selke yet isn't considered a top ten player? OK

 

[1865]

Had a ton better offensive season than him last year.

We both know why you're saying "hasn't outscored him any given season"

He didn’t. He only got 97 points. That may be because he missed a few games, but Giroux didn’t and scored 5 more points. PPG doesn’t mean a damn thing.

 

[Echo Roku]

He didn’t. He only got 97 points. That may be because he missed a few games, but Giroux didn’t and scored 5 more points. PPG doesn’t mean a damn thing.

MacKinnon had a better offensive year. He's also the better offensive player, in general.

And yes, I'm not going to argue statistics because you already seem primed to say anything that doesn't favor you doesn't count because reasons.

 

[1865]

MacKinnon had a better offensive year. He's also the better offensive player, in general.

And yes, I'm not going to argue statistics because you already seem primed to say anything that doesn't favor you doesn't count because reasons.

PPG matters on HF during an argument, but all that really counts is points scored and Giroux got more. MacKinnon got injured, Giroux didn’t. MacKinnon has also only has one great year and it’s theoretically possible it’s an outlier. Giroux’s down years were the opposite.

In any case, I’m walking into a fight I don’t really want here. I’ve no beef with MacKinnon. He’s a great player, I’m just unbelievably salty about how disrespected Giroux is.

 

[Echo Roku]

PPG matters on HF during an argument, but all that really counts is points scored and Giroux got more. MacKinnon got injured, Giroux didn’t. MacKinnon has also only has one great year and it’s theoretically possible it’s an outlier. Giroux’s down years were the opposite.

In any case, I’m walking into a fight I don’t really want here. I’ve no beef with MacKinnon. He’s a great player, I’m just unbelievably salty about how disrespected Giroux is.

Saying MacKinnon is a better offensive player than him is no disrespect to him. MacKinnon in his current state tends to take over games more often than not.

 

[1865]

Saying MacKinnon is a better offensive player than him is no disrespect to him. MacKinnon in his current state tends to take over games more often than not.

But Giroux produces more goals.

The disrespect is the fact that he was the #2 scorer in the league and he’s neither in the top ten forwards, nor the thread discussing who was left off...

 

[Echo Roku]

But Giroux produces more goals.

The disrespect is the fact that he was the #2 scorer in the league and he’s neither in the top ten forwards, nor the thread discussing who was left off...

MacKinnon has a greater positive impact on a more regular basis. Never underestimate how important the ability to take over the game can be.

I'm not disagreeing with your second claim. But he's still not a better offensive player than MacKinnon.

 

[1865]

MacKinnon has a greater positive impact on a more regular basis. Never underestimate how important the ability to take over the game can be.

I'm not disagreeing with your second claim. But he's still not a better offensive player than MacKinnon.

“Ability to take over a game” is an entirely subjective and unsubstantiatable claim. To take this down to a simple point, I’ll agree with your point when MacKinnon ourscores Giroux. He’s had five years in the league and hasn’t done it once yet.

 

[Echo Roku]

“Ability to take over a game” is an entirely subjective and unsubstantiatable claim. To take this down to a simple point, I’ll agree with your point when MacKinnon ourscores Giroux. He’s had five years in the league and hasn’t done it once yet.

Not really. He actively takes over games. Physically. He can essentially determine pace often. He has the puck? He determines what the defenders are going to try to do because all eyes are on him. He doesn't. Stuff like that.

He's a better offensive player. You established that you only care about advantageous stats, so I know your stance there

 

[1865]

Not really. He actively takes over games. Physically. He can essentially determine pace often. He has the puck? He determines what the defenders are going to try to do because all eyes are on him. He doesn't. Stuff like that.

He's a better offensive player. You established that you only care about advantageous stats, so I know your stance there

Not ‘advantageous’ stats, I’m using stats. Points are fairly reliable. You’re the one using something that it’s entirely impossible to prove or disprove. You sound like Pierre McGuire talking about a college player.

It’s entirely possible and even likely that he’ll outscore Giroux this year. Until he does, your flowery language doesn’t really mean anything.

 

[Echo Roku]

Not ‘advantageous’ stats, I’m using stats. Points are fairly reliable. You’re the one using something that it’s entirely impossible to prove or disprove. You sound like Pierre McGuire talking about a college player.

It’s entirely possible and even likely that he’ll outscore Giroux this year. Until he does, your flowery language doesn’t really mean anything.

You just pick and choose what's important based on the needs of the argument.

He's a better offensive player.

 

[Regal]

You just pick and choose what's important based on the needs of the argument.

He's a better offensive player.

You've literally provided no evidence for your argument yet you're calling him out for picking and choosing?

 

[Echo Roku]

You've literally provided no evidence for your argument yet you're calling him out for picking and choosing?

Like I said at the beginning, he pre-empted any attempts on that by specifically doing so before I'd even have the chance to do as much.

 

[Sasso09]

Had a ton better offensive season than him last year.

We both know why you're saying "hasn't outscored him any given season"

A ton better offensive season than who?? No one in the league had a ton better offensive season than Giroux... he scored 102 points, 2nd in the league, 6 away from McDavid. What are you talking about?

 

[McFlash97]

[mod]

Kane, Kopitar and MacK all deserve to be in there ahead of Matthews and Hall AINEC.

I'm all for your opinions on McDavid...but your out to lunch if you think Taylor fn Hall is not a top 10 player in this league. Just on pure ability to carry a team on his back hes probably top 5 or better. The real Taylor Hall stood back up last year and it's pretty dam dominant.

 

[Sasso09]

MacKinnon has a greater positive impact on a more regular basis. Never underestimate how important the ability to take over the game can be.

I'm not disagreeing with your second claim. But he's still not a better offensive player than MacKinnon.

All facts and tangible stats say Giroux is and has always been better offensively.

Your opinion and prediction says mckinnon will start being better offensively starting this year.

Again, giroux faces tougher competition and contributes more to his own end and still outscores Nate every year, and likely will this year too.

 

[Sasso09]

I'm all for your opinions on McDavid...but your out to lunch if you think Taylor fn Hall is not a top 10 player in this league. Just on pure ability to carry a team on his back hes probably top 5 or better. The real Taylor Hall stood back up last year and it's pretty dam dominant.

Taylor Effin Hall is not better than Giroux and more than 9 other players in the NHL.

 

[Todd Parchment]

Marchand, Barzal, Hellebuyck.