Biggest Point Leech ever

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
Then he was traded to Boston and was terrible no matter who he played with. He is a point leech.
The Stevens you saw in Boston was nowhere near the Stevens who dominated the league in the early 1990s. He was never the same player after the Rich Pilon incident in the 1993 playoffs. Even in 1993-94, when Stevens scored over 40 goals, you could tell he wasn't the same. Didn't dominate the corners. Didn't play with the same wreckless abandon. Didn't take the pounding in front of the net to score a goal.

1990-1993 Stevens was one of the best players in the league. Likely the best all-round play from an LW in 20 years, since Mahovlich and Hull were at their best. He didn't need Lemieux to put up the monster numbers, and he proved it in 1990-91, and whenever Lemieux was out of the lineup.
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
valeri kamensky anyone? he was useless without forsberg.
Valeri Kamensky was a very skilled player who was considered to be one of the left wingers on the planet before he played his first NHL game. He didn't come to the NHL until he was 25. He proceeded to spend the majority of the next two seasons injured (Played only 55 games). When he was healthy, he showed why he was labelled one of the best outside of the NHL. He was showing signs of slowing down in his final year in Colorado, and he was 33, and broken down, when he bolted to the Rangers in 1999 during NYR's case study failure in the free agent market.
 

NeonDion

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
215
0
Shawn Horcoff.

Without Ales Hemsky this guy would have never put up over 50 points. The fact that this guy considers himself a legit 1st line centre is disgustting.
 

Polska

Registered User
May 25, 2004
411
0
Vancouver
FACT: In his first full year in the league, Cheechoo scored 28 goals playing largely on the third line, I believe with Mike Ricci and Scott Thornton, neither of whom are exactly offensive dynamos.

FACT: In those first 25 games of the season, the entire team struggled. Remember there was a 10 game losing streak in there. Losing streaks have a nasty habit of not letting players add to their stat totals all that much.

FACT: Any player who plays with the eventual Art Ross winner on their line is going to experience some increase to their point totals. However, 99% of the time, the players on lines with such offensive catalysts are no slouches themselves. In order for Cheechoo to be put into the situation he was in and succeed, he had to have some latent offensive ability. After all, why didn't Scott Thornton and Nils Ekman break out while on the Joe line? Ekman finished with 1 less goal and 2 more points after playing most of the season with Joe and Cheech. Scott finished with 3 less goals and 6 less points last season compared to the season before. Granted his play on the top line was limited, but he never showed any real improvement in that time.

FACT: Cheechoo is not a leech.

A leech should be defined as someone whose achievments are significantly increased and solely the result of a specific teammate.

Cheechoo was almost a 30 goal scorer with checking line companions. Logic suggests that over the course of a full season, he would do better with scoring line forwards. Your stat setup shows this, because even with a struggling team Cheechoo was on pace for better totals (albeit only slightly better). Logic again suggests that if the team went on a winning streak, Cheechoo could've conceivably scored more points than his initial pace was set for.

Do I believe that Cheech would've been a 50 goal man without Thornton? I'd say it would've been very unlikely. Do I believe that he could've eventually scored, say, 40 goals if Thornton hadn't arrived. I think that wouldn't be an impossible total. Do I think that adding 16 goals to that total due to the addition of the guy who won the freaking Art Ross qualifies him as a leech? Absolutley not.

By your logic, shouldn't Joe be considered a leech since Cheechoo's 56 goals obviously contributed to his assist totals? Joe averaged 1.4 points per game in Boston. He averaged about 1.6 points per game in San Jose. It might only be .2 points per game, but that .2 means that every 5 games he notched an extra point. And considering that his goals per game level is virtually the same in both Boston and San Jose last season (less than 0.1 goals per game difference), I'd say that those extra points were coming in the form of assists. Assists that usually found the blade of Cheechoo's stick. No Cheech, no Art Ross for Thornton. Leech? I doubt anyone would be willing to make that claim.

If Thornton had kept the same pace he had in Boston he would have finished with 114 points. Fewer than 125 obviously, but still a very impressive sum. On the other hand there is a huge difference between what Cheechoo was on pace for without Thornton (56) and what he finished with having played with Thornton for the majority of the season (93).

You mention that the entire team was struggling at the time and it's hard to perform when the team is playing poorly. You think they would have turned it around without Thornton? The team would have continued losing and Cheechoo would in all likely hood finish the season with close to 56 points, again, a huge difference. Not only that, players who truly have the emmense talent that it should take to win the Rocket Richard, like Ovechkin and Crosby, put up fantastic numbers on absolutely wretched teams.

You're right though, Cheechoo is talented. You can't score 56 goals and be completely devoid of talent. And if he had kept pace his numbers would definitely have been respectable, but they wouldn't put him in the category of players like Ovechkin and Crosby. Playing on a Thornton-less Sharks team, he'd put up closer to 56 points, playing on a Thornton-less team that is still very good, such as the Devils, he'd probably put up closer to 40 goals and 70 or 80 points. Great, but not hardware worthy.
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,264
6,476
South Korea
FACT: Cheechoo is not a leech.

A leech should be defined as someone whose achievments are significantly increased and solely the result of a specific teammate.

Cheechoo was almost a 30 goal scorer with checking line companions. Logic suggests that over the course of a full season, he would do better with scoring line forwards. Your stat setup shows this, because even with a struggling team Cheechoo was on pace for better totals (albeit only slightly better). Logic again suggests that if the team went on a winning streak, Cheechoo could've conceivably scored more points than his initial pace was set for.

Do I believe that Cheech would've been a 50 goal man without Thornton? I'd say it would've been very unlikely. Do I believe that he could've eventually scored, say, 40 goals if Thornton hadn't arrived. I think that wouldn't be an impossible total. Do I think that adding 16 goals to that total due to the addition of the guy who won the freaking Art Ross qualifies him as a leech? Absolutley not.

By your logic, shouldn't Joe be considered a leech since Cheechoo's 56 goals obviously contributed to his assist totals?
Joe Thornton benefitted statistically from having a developing 30-, nay, 40-goal scorer. And Cheechoo benefitted from having a great passer. Thornton should thank Cheechoo for his trophy, or at least the Bruins for trading him away from less productive linemates.

Was Brett Hull a leech off of Adam Oates? Same kind of situation.
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
Yeah, he got to pad his stats in the same way Viagara Pimp benefitted from the mismanagement of the expansion teams from the 67 growth. Sort of like a Martin Gelinas type, except for the having to hawk his memorabilia and promote sugary sports tonics to keep in smokes.

:bow: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

I'm suprised no one has said Brian Leetch yet.
 

FoppaArGud

Registered User
Jan 18, 2006
395
0
PHILLY
Schlubs who played with Mario in the 80s

There are a handful to choose from.

Last yea I would say Savard, I mean you'd have to grossly inept not to score on that line and worse yet he got an enormous contract out of it (from a team that dealt away a premiere center and has two in training ... well, anything would be looking up from the way things were being run).
 

Obsessed Sharks Fan

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Aug 7, 2006
1,238
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San Mateo
www.obsessedsharksfan.com
Most recently I'd say Marc Savard, Cheechoo, and Gange.

I know they're talented, especially the ladder two, but they'd be putting up a fraction of the numbers they're putting up if they weren't playing with Thornton and Forsberg. I hate seeing these guys' names near the top of the stats. There are far better players out there that have to do it all by themselves. Cheechoo winning the Rocket Richard was especially annoying.

A classic canucks example would be Gino playing with Bure in 93/94.

i think what you mean is, "DAMN THE SHARKS ARE GOOD"

thornton is amazing. cheech is the perfect linemate for Thornton because he loves to shoot the puck, plain and simple. This is a freaking team sport where systems are put in place. Who cares who deserves it or doesn't. It's such a moot point. if there's a "leech" on the team, it just means the line is that good. Put cheech on a crappy line and of course his numbers would go down b/c it's a team sport and all 3 guys need to have chemistry. But Thornton wouldn't have had his point totals if his linemates couldn't finish. Now why can't you say thornton leeched off cheechoo's finishing touch?!?

btw, thornton assisted on 38 of cheech's 56 goals. That's still putting up 19 goals without thornton. Cheech has a nack for the net -- he has throughout his whole hockey career at every level (except during the lockout when he was in Sweden!).
 

knifer

Registered User
Sep 4, 2006
1,257
326
yk
There are a handful to choose from.

Last yea I would say Savard, I mean you'd have to grossly inept not to score on that line and worse yet he got an enormous contract out of it (from a team that dealt away a premiere center and has two in training ... well, anything would be looking up from the way things were being run).


savard? im defientely not a fan of the guy but to say hes a leech is being an idiot. the guy has always had the potential but just could never put it together(think kovalev when he was in NYR). hes the playmaker that worked well with Kovalchuk. watch kovalchuks goals , 15-20 percent of em were tap ins after a beauty pass by savard. the guy is skilled but hes a cancer, and defientely not a leech.
 

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