Big trade or fire the coach first?

[sipowicz]

BIG TRADE, BIG TIME!

Don't think this group has the talent to reach the play-off's especially in the Western Conf.

Number 1 line one of the weaker top lines in the league

PP doesn't click despite two pretty good D men as the anchors, team just doesn't have forwards good enough.

Team going on year 3 as Jets 2.0 without a bona-fide number 2 centre

Chevy has handed out premium contracts for average players


PS Be honest here guys, aside from Kane and Trouba who else wouldn't you trade?

 

[Guerzy]

I have been pretty vocal in my thoughts and opinions in that I believe Noel has to go. I've marked my line in the sand. I'm trying not to be too repetitive but some days it's a bit difficult. I am an optimist and I have long been a Noel supporter and have been more than open to giving him the time and assets necessary to endure success, but this season, I'm just not seeing it. I'm just not seeing Claude Noel as the guy for the job here. It's time to change the tide and direction. With that said, as I've said all along, prove me wrong and I'll gladly eat my words.

As for our recent 4 games or so where we've shown solid effort, I'm not buying it. Maybe I am wrong, maybe they will prove me wrong, but we've seen this before. Both in the last 2 seasons we've went on losing skids, our play has been poor, we've had meetings, players have gotten pissed off, etc, etc, etc. Same song and dance with this team, different year. If the Jets can be consistent in their efforts, i'll begin believing again, but it's going to take a while for me to get to that state. The last few games have been more positive, but it's nothing this team hasn't shown before. Show me more, consistently, then i'll begin taking this team more seriously.

What happens first, coach being fired or trade? likely a trade or roster addition of some sort, is my guess. However, I don't think just a trade is enough to move this team forward because I still think Noel is a big part of the issue.

Our next 7 games are against some difficult teams, and I have a feeling this is a big 7 game test where we're going to see what this team and coach are made of. We play St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Chicago, Nashville, SJ and Detroit. That will bring us to mid-November and we'll be at 20 games. I think this is the stretch that either keeps some jobs are we possibly make change, both in regards to Noel and the roster.

What do I think needs to happen? I think Noel has to go and I think Cheveldayoff finally, for the first time since getting the team, has to trade a core piece (logic says Dustin Byfuglien) in order to air out the house and change the culture, the feeling of the room, most of all - the identity of the team. What we're doing right now is not working, in my opinion, and truth be told I don't ever see it working.

Fire Noel, trade Byfuglien. New voice, new players, new feeling in the room --- new identity.

 

[wpgsilver]

I have been pretty vocal in my thoughts and opinions in that I believe Noel has to go. I've marked my line in the sand. I'm trying not to be too repetitive but some days it's a bit difficult. I am an optimist and I have long been a Noel supporter and have been more than open to giving him the time and assets necessary to endure success, but this season, I'm just not seeing it. I'm just not seeing Claude Noel as the guy for the job here. It's time to change the tide and direction. With that said, as I've said all along, prove me wrong and I'll gladly eat my words.

What happens first, coach being fired or trade? likely a trade or roster addition of some sort, is my guess. However, I don't think just a trade is enough to move this team forward because I still think Noel is a big part of the issue.

Our next 7 games are against some difficult teams, and I have a feeling this is a big 7 game test where we're going to see what this team and coach are made of. We play St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Chicago, Nashville, SJ and Detroit. That will bring us to mid-November and we'll be at 20 games. I think this is the stretch that either keeps some jobs are we possibly make change, both in regards to Noel and the roster.

What do I think needs to happen? I think Noel has to go and I think Cheveldayoff finally, for the first time since getting the team, has to trade a core piece (logic says Dustin Byfuglien) in order to air out the house and change the culture, the feeling of the room, most of all - the identity of the team. What we're doing right now is not working, in my opinion, and truth be told I don't ever see it working.

Fire Noel, trade Byfuglien. New voice, new players, new feeling in the room --- new identity.

Really well said, Guerzy.
Pretty much my view on Noel.

 

[garret9]

I'm scared ****less of that SJS game...

 

[RonJon]

I voted fire, not because that's what I would like to see but I believe that is what will happen before any "major" deal is done.

 

[Bob E]

Neither. Just stop "doing" things and let the team become a team. The players are good, the coach is fine, they clearly can play with the best teams in the conference (St. Louis, Colorado, Los Angeles) ... just be patient.

With all due respect, I disagree.

This group - core players and coaches - has only proven they can be about a .500 team.

Are games agaisnt strong opponents close? Maybe. Sometimes. But they don't always get points when they play well, and rarely get points when they play poorly.

But do the Jets win the odd game against good opponents, sure. But can the consistently beat Chicago, St Louis, and Minnesota? I don't think so. With their current group, those teams are either too deep, or better coached, or both. Can they consistently beat Colorado, Nashville or Dallas? Maybe. But the Avs are playing well, and Dallas is improving.

The month of November is killer - Chicago, Detroit, Chicago, Nashville, SJ, Detroit, Philly, Minny, Calgary, Chicago, Minny, NJ, NYI, and Philly. That's 14 gms - 8 at home, 6 on road - where getting 7 wins (.500) will be very, very difficult for this group, imo. Even Philly and Calgary are playing better recently and would put up a decent fight.

I think November will be a key month. They would be hard pressed to get a 5-8-1 record, in Nov. They may be 5-7-2 after tonight. They currently sit in 12th spot in the West, with Dallas having games in hand. They could easily be in 13th (or 14th) place in the West by the end of November. I would think changes would be made then.

 

[Huffer]

The thing about a coaching change right now is, how would that be handled?

I think IF the Jets decide at some point to look for a new coach, we all want them to do a thorough job, go through the best process, leave no stone unturned, etc. We want Chevy and Zinger to get "their guy" right?

Can that be done mid stream? They're not going to do that in secret, so they would have to fire Noel and then start that process correct? So who is the "interim" coach in the meantime?

And more importantly, can that process be done to it's fullest in November or December? Or does the team need to wait to do it correctly in the off season? Does anyone want them to fire Noel and then just stick some guy behind the bench because he's available?

 

[Guerzy]

The thing about a coaching change right now is, how would that be handled?

I think IF the Jets decide at some point to look for a new coach, we all want them to do a thorough job, go through the best process, leave no stone unturned, etc. We want Chevy and Zinger to get "their guy" right?

Can that be done mid stream? They're not going to do that in secret, so they would have to fire Noel and then start that process correct? So who is the "interim" coach in the meantime?

And more importantly, can that process be done to it's fullest in November or December? Or does the team need to wait to do it correctly in the off season? Does anyone want them to fire Noel and then just stick some guy behind the bench because he's available?

I too want the "right" coach for the job and not just who's available if we were to fire Noel.

I wouldn't be at all surprised however if Chevy, Chipman, Zinger, etc. were doing behind the scenes discussions/interviews with Haviland, Laviolette, Carbonneau, etc, (to just name some names as examples), but we may never hear a word about it. Perhaps Noel stays, and we'd still never hear a single word about it. This is highly confidential information and a strict process within the NHL, I would think.

If for instance Mike Haviland was Chevy's choice or a top candidate, perhaps he's in discussions with Washington/Hershey in getting permission to speak to Haviland to gauge his interest, that in the instance Winnipeg makes a coaching change, can he be relieved of his AHL coaching contract to pursue NHL work?

Maybe we get to a point where going further here under Noel's guidance is more detrimental than good, so we're caught between a rock and a hard place. And do we know a quality coach will become available in May or July? maybe, but maybe not. It's a tricky situation, really. Sometimes I think when you need to fire a coach, the situation presents itself and you have to deal with it then and there. Perhaps it's bringing in an individual on an interim basis to finish the season, or perhaps there is a coach in mind you like on full-time basis. But continuing on with something that isn't working can do more harm than good, in my opinion.

Perhaps we pursue Mike Haviland on an interim basis for the duration of the season, give him a trial run. Something tells me though that Mike Haviland may still be atop Kevin Cheveldayoff's list of coaching candidates.

 

[cbcwpg]

Normally I would look for a trade to shake things up, but trading usually involves bringing something back in the trade that will improve your team. We have a couple pieces that we could look at trading and other teams might want, but you want to be trading from a position of power ( ie: the team is playing well or winning ), and I think Chevy is going to get taken if he makes a trade now. And trading for draft picks isn't going to help this team today.

So... Fire Noel's ass, get in the guy Chevy wants ( Side Bar: I'm still not convinced TNSE didn't force Chevy to keep Noel as the coach just to make things as painless as possible to get the team up and running given the time constraints we were under. And if Noel worked out, then great. Bonus points. ) , and see what happens.

 

[Channelcat]

Pretty sure it'll be the coach first. It may seem early, but tonight is the last game of the road trip then they are off until Saturday. I'm not saying that Chevy is seriously considering a change, but if he was, tonight might be the night.

 

[Huffer]

I too want the "right" coach for the job and not just who's available if we were to fire Noel.

I wouldn't be at all surprised however if Chevy, Chipman, Zinger, etc. were doing behind the scenes discussions/interviews with Haviland, Laviolette, Carbonneau, etc, (to just name some names as examples), but we may never hear a word about it. Perhaps Noel stays, and we'd still never hear a single word about it. This is highly confidential information and a strict process within the NHL, I would think.

If for instance Mike Haviland was Chevy's choice or a top candidate, perhaps he's in discussions with Washington/Hershey in getting permission to speak to Haviland to gauge his interest, that in the instance Winnipeg makes a coaching change, can he be relieved of his AHL coaching contract to pursue NHL work?

Maybe we get to a point where going further here under Noel's guidance is more detrimental than good, so we're caught between a rock and a hard place. And do we know a quality coach will become available in May or July? maybe, but maybe not. It's a tricky situation, really. Sometimes I think when you need to fire a coach, the situation presents itself and you have to deal with it then and there. Perhaps it's bringing in an individual on an interim basis to finish the season, or perhaps there is a coach in mind you like on full-time basis. But continuing on with something that isn't working can do more harm than good, in my opinion.

Perhaps we pursue Mike Haviland on an interim basis for the duration of the season, give him a trial run. Something tells me though that Mike Haviland may still be atop Kevin Cheveldayoff's list of coaching candidates.

Definitely good points there. It's the bolded that I am wondering about though. Could that kind of stuff really stay secret?

The idea of picking up a Haviland type for the interim seems ok. Do they still go through the process in the off season? How well does that coach need to do in the interim for them to not go through the process? More fuel to criticize management if they just hire the interim guy and not follow a thorough process? etc.

 

[KJJetson]

I would like see some changes. First coach.

I'm seek of Noels bla blah after every game.

I'm sure we need some changes. It's time... to shake up this squad.

 

[Analyst365]

I have been pretty vocal in my thoughts and opinions in that I believe Noel has to go. I've marked my line in the sand. I'm trying not to be too repetitive but some days it's a bit difficult. I am an optimist and I have long been a Noel supporter and have been more than open to giving him the time and assets necessary to endure success, but this season, I'm just not seeing it. I'm just not seeing Claude Noel as the guy for the job here. It's time to change the tide and direction. With that said, as I've said all along, prove me wrong and I'll gladly eat my words.

As for our recent 4 games or so where we've shown solid effort, I'm not buying it. Maybe I am wrong, maybe they will prove me wrong, but we've seen this before. Both in the last 2 seasons we've went on losing skids, our play has been poor, we've had meetings, players have gotten pissed off, etc, etc, etc. Same song and dance with this team, different year. If the Jets can be consistent in their efforts, i'll begin believing again, but it's going to take a while for me to get to that state. The last few games have been more positive, but it's nothing this team hasn't shown before. Show me more, consistently, then i'll begin taking this team more seriously.

What happens first, coach being fired or trade? likely a trade or roster addition of some sort, is my guess. However, I don't think just a trade is enough to move this team forward because I still think Noel is a big part of the issue.

Our next 7 games are against some difficult teams, and I have a feeling this is a big 7 game test where we're going to see what this team and coach are made of. We play St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Chicago, Nashville, SJ and Detroit. That will bring us to mid-November and we'll be at 20 games. I think this is the stretch that either keeps some jobs are we possibly make change, both in regards to Noel and the roster.

What do I think needs to happen? I think Noel has to go and I think Cheveldayoff finally, for the first time since getting the team, has to trade a core piece (logic says Dustin Byfuglien) in order to air out the house and change the culture, the feeling of the room, most of all - the identity of the team. What we're doing right now is not working, in my opinion, and truth be told I don't ever see it working.

Fire Noel, trade Byfuglien. New voice, new players, new feeling in the room --- new identity.

Noel has done a perfect job of finding the identity of this team, which is why we need to start finding new players.

 

[Jet]

I have been pretty vocal in my thoughts and opinions in that I believe Noel has to go. I've marked my line in the sand. I'm trying not to be too repetitive but some days it's a bit difficult. I am an optimist and I have long been a Noel supporter and have been more than open to giving him the time and assets necessary to endure success, but this season, I'm just not seeing it. I'm just not seeing Claude Noel as the guy for the job here. It's time to change the tide and direction. With that said, as I've said all along, prove me wrong and I'll gladly eat my words.

As for our recent 4 games or so where we've shown solid effort, I'm not buying it. Maybe I am wrong, maybe they will prove me wrong, but we've seen this before. Both in the last 2 seasons we've went on losing skids, our play has been poor, we've had meetings, players have gotten pissed off, etc, etc, etc. Same song and dance with this team, different year. If the Jets can be consistent in their efforts, i'll begin believing again, but it's going to take a while for me to get to that state. The last few games have been more positive, but it's nothing this team hasn't shown before. Show me more, consistently, then i'll begin taking this team more seriously.

What happens first, coach being fired or trade? likely a trade or roster addition of some sort, is my guess. However, I don't think just a trade is enough to move this team forward because I still think Noel is a big part of the issue.

Our next 7 games are against some difficult teams, and I have a feeling this is a big 7 game test where we're going to see what this team and coach are made of. We play St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Chicago, Nashville, SJ and Detroit. That will bring us to mid-November and we'll be at 20 games. I think this is the stretch that either keeps some jobs are we possibly make change, both in regards to Noel and the roster.

What do I think needs to happen? I think Noel has to go and I think Cheveldayoff finally, for the first time since getting the team, has to trade a core piece (logic says Dustin Byfuglien) in order to air out the house and change the culture, the feeling of the room, most of all - the identity of the team. What we're doing right now is not working, in my opinion, and truth be told I don't ever see it working.

Fire Noel, trade Byfuglien. New voice, new players, new feeling in the room --- new identity.

Yup. As much as I've been drinking the kool aid in that the past 4 games have seen a turnaround, we've all seen this movie before. The team will win a few, get comfy, and get lazy. Seems to be the MO. Now you can't put that ALL on the coach. We seem to have a lot of players here that can't self motivate. You look at guys like Kane, Bogo, Enstrom, Little. These guys have no problem getting up for games and making sure they are trying to do the best they can out there. They aren't always perfect, but you KNOW where their heart and passion is. However, the larger segment of this team is either so fragile confidence-wise (Wheeler, Clitsome) or so lazy (Byfuglien) that they find it hard to play at that level game in and game out. While this isn't necessarily Noel's fault, it's his responsibility to ensure these players are up for games and prepared. That is part X's and O's, part babysitter, part motivational speaker. I still don't think Noel and staff are good at any of it. I actually think the limited success we've seen out of our group is despite them more than because of them.

When you look at this roster and where they slot in in the lineup and how they compare to the rest of the league, yes, we have some holes. Yes, we aren't the MOST talented. However, we have some world class pieces and we should be better than we are. That, is coaching.

 

[Channelcat]

When you look at this roster and where they slot in in the lineup and how they compare to the rest of the league, yes, we have some holes. Yes, we aren't the MOST talented. However, we have some world class pieces and we should be better than we are. That, is coaching.

I agree. Many on this board have suggested that our players simply aren't good enough, but I believe the skill is there to be at least a playoff team.

 

[viper0220]

I voted fire, not because that's what I would like to see but I believe that is what will happen before any "major" deal is done.

Why you say that RonJon?

 

[Bob E]

My guess, if there was a guy they really wanted (say Lavy), they would move quickly to not miss the opportunity. They may even be kicking tires there right now, who knows.

I don't think anything is imminent, but when it does, the insider media types (Dreger, LeBrun, McKenzie, Kyper, etc) sure know of who the possible replacement(s) are. Some is speculation, I'm sure. But some must be based on sources - other media, agents, or team personnel. When Noel is near his end - I'm sure the insiders will be busy, which means the talk behind the scenes will be fast and furious.

I think Haviland is a top candidate.

 

[jorbjorb]

This organization won't be able to make a big trade.
So fire the coach. And fire the next one too.

 

[Guerzy]

My guess, if there was a guy they really wanted (say Lavy), they would move quickly to not miss the opportunity. They may even be kicking tires there right now, who knows.

I don't think anything is imminent, but when it does, the insider media types (Dreger, LeBrun, McKenzie, Kyper, etc) sure know of who the possible replacement(s) are. Some is speculation, I'm sure. But some must be based on sources - other media, agents, or team personnel. When Noel is near his end - I'm sure the insiders will be busy, which means the talk behind the scenes will be fast and furious.

I think Haviland is a top candidate.

True in most cases, Bob. I wouldn't be surprised though if a day arrived and it just come out in the news out of nowhere. Noel fired, replaced by ...

Given how tight-lipped and secretive TNSE is, it's likely Scott Brown breaks the news and confirms it on twitter.

We'll see, maybe not.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Noel has done a perfect job of finding the identity of this team, which is why we need to start finding new players.

Ok, ya made me laugh with that quip.

 

[Bob E]

True in most cases, Bob. I wouldn't be surprised though if a day arrived and it just come out in the news out of nowhere. Noel fired, replaced by ...

Given how tight-lipped and secretive TNSE is, it's likely Scott Brown breaks the news and confirms it on twitter.

We'll see, maybe not.

You could be right too, Guerzy.

TNSE definitely wants to keep things quiet and behind closed doors. I appreciate that approach, and I'm sure players, coaches, and staff do as well. Makes it hard for fans though. .

 

[sipowicz]

I agree. Many on this board have suggested that our players simply aren't good enough, but I believe the skill is there to be at least a playoff team.

An indicator of a teams skill level is on the PP, the Jets have been dismal there since season 1 even with different PP coaches, different schemes it hasn't improved, personnel has remained relatively the same proving the majority of our forwards just aren't good enough.

 

[BigZ65]

They both happen this off-season. Noel fired or re-assigned within the organization, Wheeler and Byfuglien traded.

 

[surixon]

An indicator of a teams skill level is on the PP, the Jets have been dismal there since season 1 even with different PP coaches, different schemes it hasn't improved, personnel has remained relatively the same proving the majority of our forwards just aren't good enough.

I completely disagree, system play is more important. It' s why elite talent teams like Anaheim and Chicago have finished bottom half of the league 2 of the last 3 years while a team like Nashville finishes top 10 2 of those three years. The Jets run a pretty predictable pp and quite frankly amateurish pp and that's largely on the coaches.

 

[Bob E]

They both happen this off-season. Noel fired or re-assigned within the organization, Wheeler and Byfuglien traded.

I would be surprised if wheeler is moved. If he picks it up and plays better, he'll finish near where he's been in the past with this franchise (20+ gs, 60 pts. He'll have 'earned' his contract $, but the Jets likely wouldn't want to move him.

If he continues to struggle, good luck in trying to move that contract.

Buff has a lower hit, and provides a bit more upside offensively. He might be moved.