GDT: BIG SHOWDOWN AT THE PNC: ARI @ CAR 7 PM

[NotOpie]

I'm not saying we shouldn't be excited by how Zykov looked as that line. He looked very good last night and he played as advertised and it's definitely encouraging. I'm simply saying pump the brakes a bit on "This is what could have been" based on 1 very sloppy game, against one of the worst teams in the league, coming off a back to back, with their back-up goalie who has struggled as of late.

All very true, but I also think the sentiment of, "Hmmm.....wonder what might have been had we tried this guy for a quick 4 or 5 game stint earlier". I agree with all of your caveats, but to not even try either speaks to Vellucci knowing some deficit we remain unaware of or some other secret grand plan. All season long we've been scoring starved. Given that Zykov has played both LW and RW in his career, it's not like we couldn't have sat PDG, Stempniak, et al for a game or three.

That said, having both Aho and Lindy at center probably did have a larger impact than we're giving credit for.

 

[Canes]

I personally think Zykov will be competing for the Rocket Richard every year.

 

[Stickpucker]

Didn't look out of place. Peters said after the game that he'd like Zykov to shoot more when given the opportunity to do so, but frankly, he got two goals last night apparently not heeding that advice, so..

He had 5 shots in 12 mins...that is a lot of shot generation.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Didn't look out of place. Peters said after the game that he'd like Zykov to shoot more when given the opportunity to do so, but frankly, he got two goals last night apparently not heeding that advice, so..

Are you f***ing kidding me? Guy scores 2 goals and Peters wants him to shoot more. What an asinine thing to say, when you have players like Skinner out there throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the net and not scoring. Maybe he needs to shoot as much as he wants as long as he's scoring.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I want to say something similar happened last season as well.

It did.

First 48 games he had 17 points and was +6

Final 34 he had 17 more points and was a +17

 

[RodTheBawd]

Was Peters saying he had hoped he had shot more in that game, or that going forward, given what we've seen, he wants to see him shooting as often as possible?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Was Peters saying he had hoped he had shot more in that game, or that going forward, given what we've seen, he wants to see him shooting as often as possible?

 

[cptjeff]

He didn’t put a muffin into the goalies chest from 50 feet out so he’s a failure in Peters eyes.

It does seem that Peters puts all of his emphasis on getting more shots and exactly zero emphasis on getting better shots. But hey, dat Corsi, right?

 

[geehaad]

Hello, I'd like to join the chorus in saying that Peters can get f***ed with his "shoot more" advice.

 

[bleedgreen]

Peters was right. At least once Zykov passed off a chance that was arguably his cleanest look at the net all night, while on his forehand with little defense in front of him. Forces a pass to the other two, even Tripp commented he has to shoot that.

The quality of the shots he did put to the net that didn’t score weren’t the quality of that one. He absolutely crushed his audition for this one game but Peters doesn’t care about one game he wants the kid to be a regular. On the nights he doesn’t score two goals or directly create one for someone else, his choice to not shoot on a couple of obvious ones lands his butt right back in the minors.

Mcginn had some early success like this and still went back down. Zykov scored in his first game last year. You can’t kiss this guys ass after one game, he needs to show it every night.

Though of course tonight shows what someone who can shoot playing a simple game can do for this team.

 

[MinJaBen]

It does seem that Peters puts all of his emphasis on getting more shots and exactly zero emphasis on getting better shots. But hey, dat Corsi, right?

This seems to explain our poor PDO, too. If the mantra of shoot, shoot, shoot is taken to an extreme (and I think Peters can be seen to be doing that), then lots of low percentage shots by our guys is going to lead to a lower PDO no matter the luck or skill that stupid statistic is trying to measure.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

You guys are freaking out over a nothingburger.

Peters doesn't offer praise or criticism lightly. If a guy has a particular game one way or the other, he'll herd it back to the middle. "He needs to to do X better" or "I liked his effort". He's done this his entire career here.

Zykov's second goal is the precise kind of goal the 'Canes have needed this year. Win a battle and score an ugly goal.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Guy scores 2 goals and Peters wants him to shoot more.

Are you suggesting that Peters say Zykov should shoot less? I, for one, would love for Zykov to shoot more.

It does seem that Peters puts all of his emphasis on getting more shots and exactly zero emphasis on getting better shots. But hey, dat Corsi, right?

If the rates remain the same for the remainder of the year, this will be the 3rd year in a row the 'Canes finish in the top 10 teams of bulk High Danger Scoring Chances, and the 2nd year they finish top-5.

For fun: last year only the 'Canes and the Stars were in the top 10 HDSC and didn't make the playoffs: two years ago, us, the Canadiens and the Blue Jackets.

The three competing theories are:
1) Peters runs a system that gets scoring chances, but the forwards can't convert because they suck
2) Peters runs a system that gets scoring chances, but it's matched with the wrong players on this team (ie Eric Staal)
3 Peters runs a system that gets "scoring chances", as defined by natural stat trick: but they are chances that no NHLer could convert (ie these are the "wrong players", but the "right players" don't exist)

 

[The Faulker 27]

Are you suggesting that Peters say Zykov should shoot less? I, for one, would love for Zykov to shoot more.

I'm suggesting it's an asinine thing to say about a player that scored twice, especially taking into consideration how often we've lost and still outshot the opponent. We have plenty of players that can shoot a bunch of nothing at the net, but very few that can score. I think he should have just kept his comments on Zykov simple and to the point "He had a good game. We'll evaluate him more over the coming games" and leave it at that. No need to single out something for him to work on, in his first game, having scored twice. Just my opinion obviously.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

It should also be pointed out that getting a lot of shots and not scoring can be detrimental to a player’s psyche. The “ruts” that Eric used to go on, that Skinner still struggles with, where they’re basically trying to force goals to happen because they haven’t scored in X games. It compounds on itself, because then they’re just taking shots from anywhere, with little chance to score.

And that’s not even getting into the numerous games this year where we’ve put up 40 shots, scored once, and lost the game. Got to imagine those games don’t feel great afterwards.

 

[NotOpie]

If the rates remain the same for the remainder of the year, this will be the 3rd year in a row the 'Canes finish in the top 10 teams of bulk High Danger Scoring Chances, and the 2nd year they finish top-5.

Yet we continue to finish near the bottom is basic scoring output (25th in goals for) and shooting accuracy (29th in shooting percentage) currently.

Over the last 4 seasons we've been:

Goals For:
25th
21st
27th
27th

Shooting %:
29th
20th
28th
29th

That speaks to skill and execution, no?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Yet we continue to finish near the bottom is basic scoring output (25th in goals for) and shooting accuracy (29th in shooting percentage) currently.

Over the last 4 seasons we've been:

Goals For:
25th
21st
27th
27th

Shooting %:
29th
20th
28th
29th

That speaks to skill and execution, no?

I was responding to the notion that Peters' system doesn't generate quality shots, which is mostly untrue.

How much is the disparity between chance/shot generation and actual effect is on the system vs. on the players? I don't know. This is the third year now that the 'Canes have been great at getting shots, and generating High Danger Chances, but fail to turn that into goals scored- at least we can say it's not an outlier.

A problem with HDSC is that a traffic point shot or traffic board shot that generates a rebound to the general area where a Hurricane player resides is going to be called a HDSC the same way a wrister by Stamkos or Kucherov from the slot is a HDSC. The heat maps we saw, the Lightning take a ton of slot shots from the slow, the Hurricanes, almost none, most of their shots are from the point to the boards.

A "Peters player" would be a guy who can consistently turn the rebound above into goals, so big guys with good hands. The 'Canes have none of those at the moment. Zykov might turn into that, maybe Roy and Goat. Can the 'Canes turn that into a quality hockey team? Maybe.

(I'll also say that the coach who figures out how to turn chest seeking missiles into glove side high goals on a consistent basis for his hockey club will become the greatest coach in sporting history)

 

[Lempo]

Yet we continue to finish near the bottom is basic scoring output (25th in goals for) and shooting accuracy (29th in shooting percentage) currently.

Over the last 4 seasons we've been:

Goals For:
25th
21st
27th
27th

Shooting %:
29th
20th
28th
29th

That speaks to skill and execution, no?

Or possibly ill and skexecution.

 

[NotOpie]

A "Peters player" would be a guy who can consistently turn the rebound above into goals, so big guys with good hands. The 'Canes have none of those at the moment. Zykov might turn into that, maybe Roy and Goat. Can the 'Canes turn that into a quality hockey team? Maybe.

Yeah, I just don't know....while I believe we have a dearth of skill from some players, I fail to see how our guys are that much worse than other bubble teams. That's what gets me....with all the positive statistical metrics, we should be doing better. We've seen a number of these guy have better seasons or stretches of seasons. I think Jordan Staal is a perfect example....while he's never been a sniper, his hands have seemingly petrified to a greater degree over the last 2 1/2 years. Skinner loses the puck, misfires, and is down right off with his shot. Faulk, Lindholm, Rask....all seem to have suffered from some malady that causes errant shots.

My dad always told me that it was easy to describe the problem, solving it was a different story....well that's the coaches responsibility. I'm not putting the disappearance of skill or lack of execution, per se, on the coaches....but shouldn't they at least have some solution sets to be trying? It seemed much more of a "2nd verse, same as the first" approach.

 

[emptyNedder]

I have read several commenters who aren't "sold on Aho at center." I get that the prototypical center is 6'3" 215. But Aho did something last night I have seen him due numerous times--the reverse check. He unleashes a shoulder into a player who is coming to check him into the boards. I have watched bigger centers, and none are as effective at this as Aho. I know it is just one physical aspect, but I think it demonstrates that Aho's size is not a big detriment. Given how much better the team is when Aho controls the puck (as exciting as Zykov was, I don't think he had a single 2-goals at 5-on-5 game in Charlotte), I am convinced that success for Carolina has Aho being the 1C.

If there are concerns other than his size, I am open to reassessing my opinion.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'm back and forth on Aho at center. It's classic "us" to put a guy who's doing well into a position they may not succeed in out of desperation. If he excels then fine, but I really don't want them forcing this to happen because we can't get good centers any other way.

On the other hand, putting Lindy anywhere but center is getting ridiculous at any point in the future. He's better there. He's the player we drafted there.

 

[Johniac]

What are we calling the Nordy - Ryan - Stemp line?

I think it should be the HOT GARBAGE LINE[/QUOTE

Stemp Nordy Ryan could be the SNORE line

 

[Canes]

I'm back and forth on Aho at center. It's classic "us" to put a guy who's doing well into a position they may not succeed in out of desperation. If he excels then fine, but I really don't want them forcing this to happen because we can't get good centers any other way.

On the other hand, putting Lindy anywhere but center is getting ridiculous at any point in the future. He's better there. He's the player we drafted there.

I think it's more a classic Canes thing to do similar things year after year despite having similar lack of results. The only young forward we've given any significant time at center is Rask, and that has worked out in a borderline disastrous way so far. We haven't been able to develop a top 6 center even though that's what Lindholm and Aho were sold to us as being when drafted. The excuse is/was that they were better suited to play wing now while we remain weak down the middle and miss the playoffs year after year. It was beyond time for us to at least try Aho and Lindholm at center for more than a handful of games, and not just put them there because we're basically out of the playoff race again.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I was responding to the notion that Peters' system doesn't generate quality shots, which is mostly untrue.

I'm not sure I completely agree. If I understand HDSC correctly, it's simply a distance measurement. And as we know, that's only one component of quality shots. For example, let's look at the heat maps from Toronto and Carolina.

Per Naturalstattrick, the Canes have a HDCF/60 that is 5th best in the NHL and Toronto's is 9th, so that measure would say the Canes are better. I look at these two charts and see the exact opposite. Almost all of the Leafs shots are in the prime scoring areas. The Canes are really close to the goalie (which isn't always prime scoring) or off to the side, but there's a complete empty in the slot, which is the prime scoring area.

That's what I don't see with this team. The ability to get in center ice, between the dots for scoring chances which is the prime scoring area.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm back and forth on Aho at center. It's classic "us" to put a guy who's doing well into a position they may not succeed in out of desperation. If he excels then fine, but I really don't want them forcing this to happen because we can't get good centers any other way.

I get that, but they have said all along they think that's where he'll play, but they just want him to be ready for it so aren't forcing it. It's not like they just thrust him there this year because of need.

That said, I do agree that he's an awesome winger so I'm not sold on it.

 

[MinJaBen]

I get that, but they have said all along they think that's where he'll play, but they just want him to be ready for it so aren't forcing it. It's not like they just thrust him there this year because of need.

That said, I do agree that he's an awesome winger so I'm not sold on it.

Yeah, I’m not sure Aho at center is the way to go. Which of Staal, Lindholm, or Necas becomes a wing? Not to mention Walmark and Rask. I see our lineup next year as:

Aho - Necas - TT
Skinner - Lindy - Zykov
??? - Staal - Williams
McGinn - Rask - Foegele

Who will be the ??? Is uncertain. Do we get a talented UFA? Another rookie? I think it will be UFA so Dundon can put his stamp on the franchise, but they have to want to come here, so who knows.