News Article: Big changes coming in for next season

[RealSpartan]

Some of the waxing and waning of fandom is insulated by the sheer size of the market.

Exactly. Critical mass.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Cubs and Red Sox fans were all long dead from their last victories. Toronto fans remembering 67 are starting to die. Ranger fans waited 50 years. There are countless examples all over professional sports, just think of all the soccer teams in Europe that haven't won in generations, yet the fans still turn up. I'm going to say nay nay to your theory.

Fans are taught, is more likely, by their parents. God help the Melnyk generation of kids who only hear their parents explain why they don't take little Billy or Shirley to the games. Oh the passion!

Yup, the whole Boycott club is going to have a more negative impact on the team than melnyk did.

Sad.

 

[NyQuil]

It really is a simple numbers game. Ottawa fans aren't uniquely fickle, we are just drawing from a smaller pool so casuals represent a bigger chunk of the bums in seats.

It's the lack of a corporate ticket base that really kill us.

They seem to be a little more protected from the win-loss record.

Then again, my firm had some and stopped because our clients were primarily government and we couldn't bring them to the games.

 

[Micklebot]

It's the lack of a corporate ticket base that really kill us.

They seem to be a little more protected from the win-loss record.

Posted about that in another thread, smallest corporate base to draw from by the NHLs own internal metric, roughly half the size of Winnepeg's. Let that sink in, their metro population is less than 60% of Ottawa's but they have almost twice the viable corporate entities to try and sell adds, seats and boxes to.

 

[NyQuil]

Posted about that in another thread, smallest corporate base to draw from by the NHLs own internal metric, roughly half the size of Winnepeg's. Let that sink in, their metro population is less than 60% of Ottawa's but they have almost twice the viable corporate entities to try and sell adds, seats and boxes to.

I remember reading a really good article by Wayne Scanlan about this awhile ago (2017).

The Senators only get about half their season ticket support (roughly 4,000 of an estimated 8,000 season ticket holders) from corporate outlets.

In the Greater Toronto Area, the Maple Leafs have the luxury of tying up about 80 per cent of their season ticket sales (roughly 13,000 of 16,000) from corporations. The massive population of the GTA fights over the remaining tickets like chickens chasing feed.

Scanlan: A breakdown of the Senators attendance issues in a challenging market | Ottawa Sun

Non-corporate Leaf fans only buy 3,000 season tickets compared with 4,000 by Senators fans despite being around 1/3 to 1/4 the population.

It's very easy to be a free rider as a Leaf fan because you can just claim that the tickets aren't available and never have to pay a cent to support the team.

 

[Micklebot]

Then again, my firm had some and stopped because our clients were primarily government and we couldn't bring them to the games

My old office did the same, that was back in 2007 or so. Funny enough, we didnt even qualify as a viable corporate entity based on the NHL's metric.

 

[RealSpartan]

Don't let any of these facts get in the way of good old intellectual dishonesty.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Yup, the whole Boycott club is going to have a more negative impact on the team than melnyk did.

Sad.

How do you still hold this view? How?

 

[Spartachat]

Yup, the whole Boycott club is going to have a more negative impact on the team than melnyk did.

Sad.

Or they could be the heros that brought us a new owner.

 

[GCK]

One of the bigger problems IMO is that the Ottawa Senators have failed to create any new "fanatics", that also is a HUGE problem and one that could have a much bigger long term impact. There is whole generation of kids that live in this city that they are failing to attract for whatever reason that may be.

Regular fans don’t really drive revenue as much as we wish. Don’t get me wrong, it helps but it’s not on folks in the 300s to pay the toll. Melnyk needs to stop drinking and being a prick, get his ass to Ottawa and focus on rebuilding relationships with medium and large businesses within the region. I don’t think he can do it but that’s what needs to be done.

 

[coladin]

There is no passion. Please follow along.

All of those examples have victory(ies) upon which they built a loyal, passionate, and prideful following, which indeed gets passed on by parents to the children. The Senators have failed to accomplish this in 28 years, nor is there any glimmer of hope upon which to latch.

The brand of ridicule and shaming you've bought into solves nothing and is counter-productive.

Sens win the Cup in 2007 and you think none of this happens? You can't be serious.

You realize how long those franchises went without winning right? Look it up. Your point fails miserably.

Teach your kids whatever you want to teach them. I raised a diehard fan who bitches like pops does about the owner. But there is no questions whatsoever of him abandoning the team, until the customer is blah blah blah. He goes every chance he gets because he is a fan. Not a customer. If you teach your kids how to be a fan, chances are they will be a fan and then draw their own conclusions.

The only people ashamed are the business and economic majors, and control freaks who complain more about who is off the ice rather than who is on the ice. Lamentable and tiring, but Ottawa is a beauty of a city, and I wouldn't expect anything less

 

[coladin]

It's the lack of a corporate ticket base that really kill us.

They seem to be a little more protected from the win-loss record.

Then again, my firm had some and stopped because our clients were primarily government and we couldn't bring them to the games.

Very true. And the thing is, Ottawa has lots of money. I don't think people realize how wealthy this city , and its corporations are. I think how they spend their money, and how they do not, speaks more to bottom lines than anything else. But Ottawa certainly has enough corporations to prop up the CTC. They simply are not interested and the business model of 2020, hell even the last 10 years, does not require Sens tickets to make a deal. That is going away. They are going out to fancy dinners, and golfing now

 

[RealSpartan]

Sens win the Cup in 2007 and you think none of this happens? You can't be serious.

You realize how long those franchises went without winning right? Look it up. Your point fails miserably.

Teach your kids whatever you want to teach them. I raised a diehard fan who bitches like pops does about the owner. But there is no questions whatsoever of him abandoning the team, until the customer is blah blah blah. He goes every chance he gets because he is a fan. Not a customer. If you teach your kids how to be a fan, chances are they will be a fan and then draw their own conclusions.

The only people ashamed are the business and economic majors, and control freaks who complain more about who is off the ice rather than who is on the ice. Lamentable and tiring, but Ottawa is a beauty of a city, and I wouldn't expect anything less

Correct. Sens win in 2007 and we're not having this discussion. My point stands.

The rest of your post is ... par for the course.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Very true. And the thing is, Ottawa has lots of money. I don't think people realize how wealthy this city , and its corporations are. I think how they spend their money, and how they do not, speaks more to bottom lines than anything else. But Ottawa certainly has enough corporations to prop up the CTC. They simply are not interested and the business model of 2020, hell even the last 10 years, does not require Sens tickets to make a deal. That is going away. They are going out to fancy dinners, and golfing now

This market can not sustain an NHL team through gate sales. Those days are long over.

It's getting to be virtually impossible to compete with at-home game experiences with giant 4K TVs, amazing audio systems, in-game commentary, the ability to pause live action, real-time sports betting, food delivery, etc.

The NFL and NBA have proven the model and now don't even need to have live fans to turn a profit for every team every year.

Ottawa's only chance is to throw all its eggs in the TV contract basket and hope for the best.

 

[GCK]

The new model requires high end prices and experiences. Club Bell is awesome but they need another area like that to cater to a 250 dollar experience. If we ever get a downtown arena I hope it’s in the 15-16500 capacity range.

 

[JD1]

I remember reading a really good article by Wayne Scanlan about this awhile ago (2017).



Scanlan: A breakdown of the Senators attendance issues in a challenging market | Ottawa Sun

Non-corporate Leaf fans only buy 3,000 season tickets compared with 4,000 by Senators fans despite being around 1/3 to 1/4 the population.

It's very easy to be a free rider as a Leaf fan because you can just claim that the tickets aren't available and never have to pay a cent to support the team.

You've hit the nail on the head here.

The biggest challenge in Ottawa isn't what joe fan spends, it's the nature of the economy in this city.

Tickets by NHL standards are cheap. Dirt cheap. By joe fan stanards they are expensive. f***ing expensive. My pair of tickets to 10 games last year would have ultimately cost close to 3k all in. 10 games. That's two tickets, parking, some eats and some beers.

I find that expensive. Really expensive. But it's in fact cheap, really cheap by league standards.

After years of having corporate tickets and boxes 20 years ago and personal tickets in the civic centre days I went about 18 years without tickets. I'd go here and there out of my own pocket plus the odd freebie and the odd box invite. But there was no way I was spending that kind of money while raising my family. They're raised now.

Life's been pretty good to me. As a family guy, if i couldn't/wouldn't pay the price, the team is dealing with a very tiny percentage of people that could/would.

And that's where the team requires another 5k of STHs coming from the corporate world but it's just not very achievable

 

[coladin]

Correct. Sens win in 2007 and we're not having this discussion. My point stands.

The rest of your post is ... par for the course.

Par for the course is the simpleton approach that you and many others take. Customers lol

 

[RealSpartan]

Par for the course is the simpleton approach that you and many others take. Customers lol

Yes, quite simple actually. They've systematically reduced the relationship to a binary one, and they need us more than we need them.

So tell us, what's the end game in all of this?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Yes, quite simple actually. They've systematically reduced the relationship to a binary one, and they need us more than we need them.

So tell us, what's the end game in all of this?

New team, new fans... new town - same owner?

 

[RealSpartan]

New team, new fans... new town - same owner?

It's quite possible, but I meant on the local front. Assuming things are even reconcilable, what's the end game?

 

[Alfie11]

New team, new fans... new town - same owner?

That could be it. Melnyk owns the franchise. I'm sure the NHL would rather the team stay in Ottawa and not lose potential expansion markets but, short of Melynk doing something horrible to have his ownership stripped, there has to be a point where moving the team becomes an option for him.

The Sens franchise and the membership in the NHL partnership seems to be his last big asset. I can't see him selling until being a part of the NHL is no longer worth it.

As fans though, does the potential loss of a franchise make you want to spend a tonne of money on what is a horrible entertainment product? I love the team but that's a no from me and I think most casual fans feel the same. When the team is good you can overlook the stupid price of the NHL experience. When the team is bad though, a lot of people will skip buying tickets.

The corporate base is the key. The Sens have to find a way to boost financial support from them. Middle class fans in Ottawa don't have the money to float an $80 million USD payroll from ticket sales.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's quite possible, but I meant on the local front. Assuming things are even reconcilable, what's the end game?

His only play is winning and and hoping fans follow.

He does not seem interested in or capable of any other sort of attempt at reconciliation or appealing to the fans.

 

[Sweatred]

Team​	Revenue​	Player Expenses​	Operating Income​
Winnipeg 2019​	$127 million​	$82 million​	-$7.7 million​
Calgary 2019​	$138 million​	$81 million​	$3.6 million​
Ottawa 2019​	$127 million​	$72 million​	$3.6 million​
Columbus 2019​	$119 million​	$87 million​	-$13 million​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*all numbers from Forbes NHL valuations

Look at Winnipeg and Ottawa, same revenue but $10 million difference in player expenses. Now look at the operating income, the difference is about $10 million. I don't know why Winnipeg's owner is ok with losing that much money in a single season but I would say my expectations for any franchise owner to lose that much money in a season is pretty low.

This proves that EM is spending exactly what he should be based on his revenues. The richest guy is the league is spending $10 million more than the poorest. I'd say he is doing pretty well to hang in that company. We also don't know how the debt/ lease agreements compare etc. If Ottawa want's to spend like Calgary they should simply supply the same revenue as Calgary.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

This proves that EM is spending exactly what he should be based on his revenues. The richest guy is the league is spending $10 million more than the poorest. I'd say he is doing pretty well to hang in that company. We also don't know how the debt/ lease agreements compare etc. If Ottawa want's to spend like Calgary they should simply supply the same revenue as Calgary.

Isn't that number including "faux" salary though? I thought actual salary expenditures last year were around 47 mil until Names was brought in bringing it to about 50?

 

[Sweatred]

Isn't that number including "faux" salary though? I thought actual salary expenditures last year were around 47 mil until Names was brought in bringing it to about 50?

Last year was definitely much lower. I also don't think we have the 19-20 revenue numbers which are probably lower too. EM isn't considered cheap because of 2019-20 spending, he was given that distinction before the complete tear down. Id be curious to see how much he cleared in 2018-19 vs 2019-20.