News Article: Big changes coming in for next season

[GCK]

I was about to post exactly this using different words. Good job.

A player's value is driven by his labour market 31 teams in size. The Senators' market is entertainment and driven mostly by the residents and corporations of this city.

As CGK posted it is true that there's an inherent link between the two in that revenues drives the Senators' ability to afford market rates for players (low revenue = low end players, high revenue = high end players). That's in a conventional situation where you operate purely like a business. Some teams have the luxury of spending disproportionately due to wealthy ownership who treats the team like a toy. We don't have that.

Every business in the history of business has (had) the objective of growth. Unless the Senators move they have a decision to make on how they operate here:

1) "Pray" for growth => link labour spending to revenues and likely be a bad/mediocre team in perpetuity, while praying for a stroke of luck that will bring the team a championship and propel growth (of the fan base, of revenues, of the brand).

2) "Invest" in growth => de-link spending from revenues on a short/medium term basis (FYOUS?) and invest in the labour that is more likely to achieve success, and thus growth. If it doesn't work, blow it up.

The people have spoken in this damaged relationship. #1 will give the Senators 10-12K fans per game, crappy corporate support.

What about #2?

i think it’s a myth that owners treat teams like a toy/hobby. This may have been true 30 years ago and there are a couple of exceptions still today but the vast majority of owners still run their teams like a business. Take a look at the EPL with the big 6. Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Tottenham are not toys. When Chelsea was bought by Abramovich he spent to win and suffered big losses and now the team is run as a business. Too much money is at stake to just play in the pro sports world now.

 

[RealSpartan]

As long as "fans" call themselves "customers", this shit will not have a happy ending lol.

Sports appeals to fanatics, not customers.

Fanatics aren't born as such. They are created in victory.

 

[Spartachat]

i think it’s a myth that owners treat teams like a toy/hobby. This may have been true 30 years ago and there are a couple of exceptions still today but the vast majority of owners still run their teams like a business. Take a look at the EPL with the big 6. Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Tottenham are not toys. When Chelsea was bought by Abramovich he spent to win and suffered big losses and now the team is run as a business. Too much money is at stake to just play in the pro sports world now.

Melnyk can do whatever he wants as long as abides by NHL rules. He can spend to the cap floor every year. However, doing that there is a good chance the team will not do well on the ice. If the team is not doing well or if fans perceive that the the owner is not signing fan favorites, then fan interest in the team will fall. This may affect revenue.

People can advocate as much as they want on HFBoard that Melnyk has to keep salary expenses low. However, the average fan that is not on HFBoard will not care. They will simply lose interest in the team. If that is fine with Melnyk, so be it.

 

[RealSpartan]

We can gripe about casual fans all we want, but they have money and we need them to go. Hockey itself may not be enough for those folks.

Exactly. Fanatics are wonderful and all but in limited supply. Casual fans have money and are looking for ways to spend it. Usually they'll take in a game because the team is doing well and it's "fashionable" to be there.

Who gives a crap what their motivations are for going? We need all hands on deck here. And maybe casuals will convert to fanatics if victory is achieved.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Melnyk can do whatever he wants as long as abides by NHL rules. He can spend to the cap floor every year. However, doing that there is a good chance the team will not do well on the ice. If the team is not doing well or if fans perceive that the the owner is not signing fan favorites, then fan interest in the team will fall. This may affect revenue.

People can advocate as much as they want on HFBoard that Melnyk has to keep salary expenses low. However, the average fan that is not on HFBoard will not care. They will simply lose interest in the team. If that is fine with Melnyk, so be it.

This is the danger and we're about to head in to throwaway season number 4.

It's fine to say he has to operate the team under a strict budget, but there's no denying the impact that will have on the product on the ice, the players they're able to keep, and thus fan interest.

 

[Stylizer1]

Melnyk provides a poor product that nobody wants to support but it's their only option. If Ottawa had one restaurant that was run poorly and people stopped going, it doesn't mean people in Ottawa don't like restaurants. Melnyk rode to coat tails of a well oiled machine when he bought the Senators and arena for next to nothing. Every year since making the finals he has pulled back on investing into the team. Trading for Heatley and then trading Heatley's contract were the first signs of penny pinching. We didn't see it at the time. The purge in 2011 was a bit of the same, retool. Alfie walks and people started paying attention. Spezza traded for nothing proved it and then interest started fading. Trading Stone and Karlsson was the last straw.

Very simple how the population has grown and the interest has diminished.

 

[Stylizer1]

Melnyk can do whatever he wants as long as abides by NHL rules. He can spend to the cap floor every year. However, doing that there is a good chance the team will not do well on the ice. If the team is not doing well or if fans perceive that the the owner is not signing fan favorites, then fan interest in the team will fall. This may affect revenue.

People can advocate as much as they want on HFBoard that Melnyk has to keep salary expenses low. However, the average fan that is not on HFBoard will not care. They will simply lose interest in the team. If that is fine with Melnyk, so be it.

I haven't watched more than a period in 2 seasons.

 

[Stylizer1]

This is the danger and we're about to head in to throwaway season number 4.

It's fine to say he has to operate the team under a strict budget, but there's no denying the impact that will have on the product on the ice, the players they're able to keep, and thus fan interest.

Don't forget players lose interest as well.

 

[Micklebot]

There are fanatics, casual fans and a grey zone in between.

Fanatics will typically buy tickets no matter what, casual fans as @RealSpartan pointed out will buy tickets when the going is good.

I think the real problem is that the way the team has gone, they've managed to lose that grey zones loyalty, and likely pushed some of the fanatics into that grey zone.

Casual fans are easy to win back, not so sure about the rest.

 

[GCK]

Melnyk provides a poor product that nobody wants to support but it's their only option. If Ottawa had one restaurant that was run poorly and people stopped going, it doesn't mean people in Ottawa don't like restaurants. Melnyk rode to coat tails of a well oiled machine when he bought the Senators and arena for next to nothing. Every year since making the finals he has pulled back on investing into the team. Trading for Heatley and then trading Heatley's contract were the first signs of penny pinching. We didn't see it at the time. The purge in 2011 was a bit of the same, retool. Alfie walks and people started paying attention. Spezza traded for nothing proved it and then interest started fading. Trading Stone and Karlsson was the last straw.

Very simple how the population has grown and the interest has diminished.

There are a few incorrect statements in this post. Hossa was moved for Heatley because we didn’t have any cap space. Heatley requested a trade as did Spezza, neither was a money move. Stone and Karlsson were money moves.

 

[GCK]

I haven't watched more than a period in 2 seasons.

You couldn’t have total lost interested since you post about the team every day.

 

[BatherSeason]

No.

Senators and League Wide Revenue

?

 

[Stylizer1]

You couldn’t have total lost interested since you post about the team every day.

I don't post about the team. I post primarily about management.

 

[Micklebot]

There are a few incorrect statements in this post. Hossa was moved for Heatley because we didn’t have any cap space. Heatley requested a trade as did Spezza, neither was a money move. Stone and Karlsson were money moves.

Definately agree that Hossa wasn't about penny pinching, that was cap management. Heatley leaving also wasn't penny pinching, at least not in terms of the motivation behind trading him.

There is a bit of grey wrt Spezza. He said he'd be open to a trade if the team was going to go into a retool/rebuild but wanted to stay if they were going to try and win now, or at least that was what was reported.

So it comes down to where we rebuilding at that time for hockey reasons, money reasons, or a combination? My guess is the latter.

Then there is how money played a role in the returns we sought, but thats a different subject.

 

[RealSpartan]

There are fanatics, casual fans and a grey zone in between.

Fanatics will typically buy tickets no matter what, casual fans as @RealSpartan pointed out will buy tickets when the going is good.

I think the real problem is that the way the team has gone, they've managed to lose that grey zones loyalty, and likely pushed some of the fanatics into that grey zone.

Casual fans are easy to win back, not so sure about the rest.

Case study: my sibling and me. Both fanatics (shared a pair of STs or 1/2 STs for 20ish years) pushed into the grey zone. I can be won back (plus I have young kids that I'd love to baptize Sens) under the right circumstances.

My sibling is gone, I fear forever. I think there's a pilot light on in there somewhere though.

 

[BatherSeason]

There are fanatics, casual fans and a grey zone in between.

Fanatics will typically buy tickets no matter what, casual fans as @RealSpartan pointed out will buy tickets when the going is good.

I think the real problem is that the way the team has gone, they've managed to lose that grey zones loyalty, and likely pushed some of the fanatics into that grey zone.

Casual fans are easy to win back, not so sure about the rest.

One of the bigger problems IMO is that the Ottawa Senators have failed to create any new "fanatics", that also is a HUGE problem and one that could have a much bigger long term impact. There is whole generation of kids that live in this city that they are failing to attract for whatever reason that may be.

 

[Stylizer1]

Senators and League Wide Revenue

?

No

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

There are fanatics, casual fans and a grey zone in between.

Fanatics will typically buy tickets no matter what, casual fans as @RealSpartan pointed out will buy tickets when the going is good.

I think the real problem is that the way the team has gone, they've managed to lose that grey zones loyalty, and likely pushed some of the fanatics into that grey zone.

Casual fans are easy to win back, not so sure about the rest.

Don't forget fickle fans.

“Some teams have lots of money and spend more money,” Redden said. “But a small market team, we need everybody going together. It’s a different attitude, maybe. We have a really good system going here and that’s the difference for us.”

 

[NyQuil]

I haven't watched more than a period in 2 seasons.

No wonder you're still hung up on bringing Spezza to Ottawa.

 

[Micklebot]

Don't forget fickle fans.

“Some teams have lots of money and spend more money,” Redden said. “But a small market team, we need everybody going together. It’s a different attitude, maybe. We have a really good system going here and that’s the difference for us.”

Isn't that pretty much covered by casual fans?

The reality is if all fanbases have the same ratio of fanatic, grey zone, and casual fans, the smaller markets will rely more on the casual fans and appear more fickle. We are probably a bit more prone to it because while we are a small market, we also lose a chunk of potential fans to Toronto and Mtl who had already established a fan base here.

It really is a simple numbers game. Ottawa fans aren't uniquely fickle, we are just drawing from a smaller pool so casuals represent a bigger chunk of the bums in seats.

 

[coladin]

Fanatics aren't born as such. They are created in victory.

Cubs and Red Sox fans were all long dead from their last victories. Toronto fans remembering 67 are starting to die. Ranger fans waited 50 years. There are countless examples all over professional sports, just think of all the soccer teams in Europe that haven't won in generations, yet the fans still turn up. I'm going to say nay nay to your theory.

Fans are taught, is more likely, by their parents. God help the Melnyk generation of kids who only hear their parents explain why they don't take little Billy or Shirley to the games. Oh the passion!

 

[coladin]

One of the bigger problems IMO is that the Ottawa Senators have failed to create any new "fanatics", that also is a HUGE problem and one that could have a much bigger long term impact. There is whole generation of kids that live in this city that they are failing to attract for whatever reason that may be.

Blame the parents

 

[NyQuil]

Cubs and Red Sox fans were all long dead from their last victories. Toronto fans remembering 67 are starting to die. Ranger fans waited 50 years. There are countless examples all over professional sports, just think of all the soccer teams in Europe that haven't won in generations, yet the fans still turn up. I'm going to say nay nay to your theory.

Fans are taught, is more likely, by their parents. God help the Melnyk generation of kids who only hear their parents explain why they don't take little Billy or Shirley to the games. Oh the passion!

I think this is a bit overly simplistic.

I'd love to see Toronto fill a 54,000 seat arena every regular season game (given their population, it would be roughly equivalent).

Some of the waxing and waning of fandom is insulated by the sheer size of the market.

 

[BankStreetParade]

One of the bigger problems IMO is that the Ottawa Senators have failed to create any new "fanatics", that also is a HUGE problem and one that could have a much bigger long term impact. There is whole generation of kids that live in this city that they are failing to attract for whatever reason that may be.

They had family zone tickets, targeted families in promotions and giveaways, had child friendly events, etc. for years. They stopped just short of letting kids just attend for free. It looks like it didn't work as planned, for whatever reason but most likely because of a lack of success. Kids, as sports fans, aren't all that nuanced. They'll be fans of a team that wins a championship or a really, really famous player (on the Crosby, Ovechkin, James level), two things Ottawa doesn't have.

 

[RealSpartan]

Cubs and Red Sox fans were all long dead from their last victories. Toronto fans remembering 67 are starting to die. Ranger fans waited 50 years. There are countless examples all over professional sports, just think of all the soccer teams in Europe that haven't won in generations, yet the fans still turn up. I'm going to say nay nay to your theory.

Fans are taught, is more likely, by their parents. God help the Melnyk generation of kids who only hear their parents explain why they don't take little Billy or Shirley to the games. Oh the passion!

There is no passion. Please follow along.

All of those examples have victory(ies) upon which they built a loyal, passionate, and prideful following, which indeed gets passed on by parents to the children. The Senators have failed to accomplish this in 28 years, nor is there any glimmer of hope upon which to latch.

The brand of ridicule and shaming you've bought into solves nothing and is counter-productive.