Bettman vs. Goodenow

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sunb

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John Flyers Fan said:
Bettman was won the PR battle, no doubt. It was something he deemed important, while the NHLPA didn't seem to care very much.

The PR war that Bettman has waged turning the fans against the players certainly won't helpl when trying to re-grow the game whenever play resumes.



Declaring an impasse and going with replacement players would be very dumb. Their best strategy would be to just sit and wait.

But at least the NHL right now has options and the winning the PR battle has given them the ability to wait without being harassed by critical fans.

The NHLPA is backed into a corner and within that corner, all hell has probably broke loose between their ranks (my assumption, not fact).
 

John Flyers Fan

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
But at least the NHL right now has options and the winning the PR battle has given them the ability to wait without being harassed by critical fans.

They couldn't give a damn about the fans. In fact they been counting on us all along. The believe we'll all come back. In some markets I think they're certainly right, but in other markets, I think they're taking a huge gamble
 

CarlRacki

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John Flyers Fan said:
Bettman was won the PR battle, no doubt. It was something he deemed important, while the NHLPA didn't seem to care very much.

The PR war that Bettman has waged turning the fans against the players certainly won't helpl when trying to re-grow the game whenever play resumes.



Declaring an impasse and going with replacement players would be very dumb. Their best strategy would be to just sit and wait.


1. If the PA doesn't care about the public-relations war, they're foolish. Having the public on your side strengthens your resolve and your position while weakening both for the other side.
2. Gary Bettman did nothing to turn the fans on the players that the players didn't do to themselves. Last I checked, Gary wasn't standing behind Bryan McCabe with his hand up his rear doing a ventriloquist act. (In hindsight, I apologize for the imagery. Blech.)
3. I don't see replacement players in the future either, but who knows. It wouldn't help the league.
 

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dedalus said:
Ooooh yes he has.

1. He achieved something a YEAR ago when he arranged the cards such that he can fight a lasting and bitter war with minority support.

2. He's shown his owners that the players will crack if the owners will stand. They will even bend over and surrender on the ONE issue on which they vowed they would never surrender.

3. He's shown the NHPA rank and file that their leader has absolutely no understanding of his opponent. Yesterday was the second time that Goodenow was wrong as he proceeded under the assumption that Bettman would negotiate off a stated position.

He's crushed Goodenow from beginning to end of this, and one need not even look at his staggering victory in the PR war to say that any smart betting man would put his money squarely on ownership.

It really has been an embarrassing whitewash, hasn't it?

It has been great to see Bob's reputation as a negotiator take a beating.
 

dedalus

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Thunderstruck said:
It really has been an embarrassing whitewash, hasn't it?

It has been great to see Bob's reputation as a negotiator take a beating.
I don't know that this is necessarily a reflection on Goodenow. I think he's good at what he does. (The problem might be that "what he does" is negotiate from a position of strength, a position that Bettman has denied him from the word "Go.") What it seems to prove is that Bettman is an excellent student of history. He may have lost the last CBA, but he's apparently studied his mistakes and Goodenow's tactics, and he's developed and implemented a strategy to address his previous mistakes and nullify Goodenow's methods.

I'm not sure that you need to take anything away from Goodenow to say that Bettman has waged a brilliant campaign to date.
 

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dedalus said:
I don't know that this is necessarily a reflection on Goodenow. I think he's good at what he does. (The problem might be that "what he does" is negotiate from a position of strength, a position that Bettman has denied him from the word "Go.") What it seems to prove is that Bettman is an excellent student of history. He may have lost the last CBA, but he's apparently studied his mistakes and Goodenow's tactics, and he's developed and implemented a strategy to address his previous mistakes and nullify Goodenow's methods.

I'm not sure that you need to take anything away from Goodenow to say that Bettman has waged a brilliant campaign to date.
Fair enough.

Bettman does have the much better hand, but I do think that as much as Gary deserves credit for learning from history, Goodenow seems guilty of reading his press clippings.
 

dedalus

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Thunderstruck said:
Goodenow seems guilty of reading his press clippings.
Goodenow is definitely guilty of underestimating or grossly misreading Bettman's/owners' resolve.

1. He told the NHLPA Executive Committee that he thought Bettman would negotiate off the 24% rollback offer, despite everything Bettman had said about the the necessity of a cap. He was wrong, and it looked terrible to have Bettman dismiss it so easily. On that day Goodenow proved to the world that he thought Bettman would settle for "business as usual" and he was wildly off in that assessment. (Meanwhile Bettman looked to his constituents as nothing more than honest dealer. He'd told the whole world he had set a standard. If Bob Goodenow couldn't see that he meant it, that was BOB'S fault, not Gary's.)

2. Last night he read Bettman's statement that there would be no further negotiations and he assumed, once again, that Bettman would settle for business as usual. Again he was wrong in his read on Bettman. (And again Bettman simply looks like a guy who holds to his position. He stated that if the players rejected it, there would be no hockey. The PA rejected the proposal, there is no hockey. Whose fault is that? Bettman's for saying what he means or Goodenow's for choosing to believe that Bettman wasn't serious?)

Personally I don't see how the Association membership can look at this and have confidence. These two incidences show that Goodenow doesn't understand Bettman clearly enough to successfully compete with him. And yes, I agree that his failure to understand that times have changed is a reflection on Goodenow.
 

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dedalus said:
Goodenow is definitely guilty of underestimating or grossly misreading Bettman's/owners' resolve.

1. He told the NHLPA Executive Committee that he thought Bettman would negotiate off the 24% rollback offer, despite everything Bettman had said about the the necessity of a cap. He was wrong, and it looked terrible to have Bettman dismiss it so easily. On that day Goodenow proved to the world that he thought Bettman would settle for "business as usual" and he was wildly off in that assessment. (Meanwhile Bettman looked to his constituents as nothing more than honest dealer. He'd told the whole world he had set a standard. If Bob Goodenow couldn't see that he meant it, that was BOB'S fault, not Gary's.)

2. Last night he read Bettman's statement that there would be no further negotiations and he assumed, once again, that Bettman would settle for business as usual. Again he was wrong in his read on Bettman. (And again Bettman simply looks like a guy who holds to his position. He stated that if the players rejected it, there would be no hockey. The PA rejected the proposal, there is no hockey. Whose fault is that? Bettman's for saying what he means or Goodenow's for choosing to believe that Bettman wasn't serious?)

Personally I don't see how the Association membership can look at this and have confidence. These two incidences show that Goodenow doesn't understand Bettman clearly enough to successfully compete with him. And yes, I agree that his failure to understand that times have changed is a reflection on Goodenow.

Excellent analysis.

Goodenow has built up plenty of goodwill with the PA members by making them wealthy, but I can't see them following him down this path to ruin much longer.
 
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