Bettman vs. Goodenow

[Phanuthier*]

Both the owners and the players went over the cliff today, and both sides lost and lost huge.

What will probably happen, is, the owners will lose 25% of their fanbase, but probably bring in replacement players.

The NHLPA, on the other hand, will probably be crushed.

Its really a case of "choose your venom." It was something that had to be done - and obviously, it looksed like one side was far more prepared for it then the other.

 

[sunb]

Bettman was much better in his press conference today, than Goodenow no doubt about that.

That doesn't mean he was right, smarter than Goodenow, etc. etc. Just means that he's a better public speaker, and better at this type of forum.

It doesn't matter if Bettman is smarter than Goodenow or whether he is more virtuous or a better cook or a better frisbee player.

What matters is that Bettman did his job better than Goodenow did his job. And in the end, Bettman is better than Goodenow.

People can say Bettman should be at fault for cancelling the season and he should have a share in this failure. But imo he did what the majority of the owners wanted him to do: fight for economical stability. Did he do his job? Relatively so. Goodenow's job however is to maximize profits for his NHLPA. How did he do? The NHLPA lost a year in earning powers (most have short careers btw) and also one billion dollars in revenue. Goodenow failed miserably. On top of that, the owners didn't lose all that much money this season while the NHLPA will likely face dissolution.

 

[Ar-too]

Both the owners and the players went over the cliff today, and both sides lost and lost huge.

If the owners were telling the truth (I know, big if), they were losing huge already.

 

[SedinFan*]

you're really sucking up to the farce that is the 24% rollback, eh? so what...the PA accepted a cap...it was inevitable. but the BS luxury tax and height of the cap was ridiculous - 42.5M is more than reasonable. this union is insane IMO for rejecting. tell us again how great goodenow and the PA is...please.

They won't get an offer like that again. I'm surprised the players didn't take a vote on it.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Goodenow and Bettman are both lawyers, I can't see how anyone likes either of them, no matter what was said at the Press Conference. Don't worry after this lockout ends everyone will do a 180 and start to hate Bettman again.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

It doesn't matter if Bettman is smarter than Goodenow or whether he is more virtuous or a better cook or a better frisbee player.

What matters is that Bettman did his job better than Goodenow did his job. And in the end, Bettman is better than Goodenow.

How can Bettman (owners) be seen as doing any better job than Goodenow (players) to this point ??? With no hockey season, both look like incredible failures at this point.

 

[SENSible1*]

It doesn't matter if Bettman is smarter than Goodenow or whether he is more virtuous or a better cook or a better frisbee player.

What matters is that Bettman did his job better than Goodenow did his job. And in the end, Bettman is better than Goodenow.

People can say Bettman should be at fault for cancelling the season and he should have a share in this failure. But imo he did what the majority of the owners wanted him to do: fight for economical stability. Did he do his job? Relatively so. Goodenow's job however is to maximize profits for his NHLPA. How did he do? The NHLPA lost a year in earning powers (most have short careers btw) and also one billion dollars in revenue. Goodenow failed miserably. On top of that, the owners didn't lose all that much money this season while the NHLPA will likely face dissolution.

Great post.

Now that these two are in a fair fight, Gary is handing Bob his a$$ on a platter.

 

[Stoneburg]

Bettman outperformed Goodenow in front of the cameras on this day. Goodenow's performance was typical union crap, the blame is all on the big bad company, and us little guys are just trying to get a fair deal. Hah!

 

[sunb]

How can Bettman (owners) be seen as doing any better job than Goodenow (players) to this point ??? With no hockey season, both look like incredible failures at this point.

I explained it in the bottom part of my post you didn't quote.

Bettman's job = attain financial stability
Goodenow's job = maximize profits for his players

Bettman's achievements = so-so. Good in that the owners didn't lose more money than they are doing now by signing a defunctional CBA. Bad in that the league is locked out
Goodenow's achievements = terrible in that he gambled away one billion dollar in player revenues and killed a year in the earning powers of all 700 players (an average 10 year career)

 

[sunb]

Great post.

Now that these two are in a fair fight, Gary is handing Bob his a$$ on a platter.

To be honest, Goodenow is getting embarassed so badly I am actually feeling sorry for him. Despite being an a$$hole, he was one of the most respected negotiators in sports history. After today, he will never likely land another prominent position for the rest of his life. Barring a miracle, Goodenow's career is down the drain.

Not everyday can you meet someone and say, "that was the person who lost one billion dollar in profits for his 700 clients and forced a professional sports league to shut down for a year because he bluffed and lost".

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

How can Bettman (owners) be seen as doing any better job than Goodenow (players) to this point ??? With no hockey season, both look like incredible failures at this point.

Completely true, EVERYONE has lost no one has won. We all lost big time.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I explained it in the bottom part of my post you didn't quote.

Bettman's job = attain financial stability
Goodenow's job = maximize profits for his players

Bettman's achievements = so-so. Good in that the owners didn't lose more money than they are doing now by signing a defunctional CBA. Bad in that the league is locked out
Goodenow's achievements = terrible in that he gambled away one billion dollar in player revenues and killed a year in the earning powers of all 700 players (an average 10 year career)

In case I missed something Bettman hasn't acheived squat as of yet, other than shrinking the pie.

 

[sunb]

In case I missed something Bettman hasn't acheived squat as of yet, other than shrinking the pie.

At least for Bettman he hasn't:
-signed a CBA that would basically see the "pie" decrease bit by bit every year
-losing the "pie" altogether (the NHLPA might face dissolution)
-lost the entire "pie"-attaining abilities of his clients (for owners, they still have multi-million/billion dollar companies while the players can only realistically see Europe as their only option

For the owners there is still "pie" while the players have lost all the "pie" they had a chance of getting

 

[John Flyers Fan]

At least for Bettman he hasn't:
-signed a CBA that would basically see the "pie" decrease bit by bit every year
-losing the "pie" altogether (the NHLPA might face dissolution)
-lost the entire "pie"-attaining abilities of his clients (for owners, they still have multi-million/billion dollar companies while the players can only realistically see Europe as their only option

For the owners there is still "pie" while the players have lost all the "pie" they had a chance of getting

Theie both big, big losers. You can be pro-owner all you want, but nobody has won, and nobody will win this deal.

 

[sunb]

Theie both big, big losers. You can be pro-owner all you want, but nobody has won, and nobody will win this deal.

It is obvious the players have lost much more.
Even if both Bettman and Goodenow failed in their jobs, Goodenow's performance was much worse.
Both the owners and the players have lost a lot today but I'd sure rather be an owner than a more loss-stricken player.

 

[SENSible1*]

Theie both big, big losers. You can be pro-owner all you want, but nobody has won, and nobody will win this deal.

The owners had already won this a long time ago. Today was just the next step towards the inevitable conclusion.

 

[jcab2000]

In case I missed something Bettman hasn't acheived squat as of yet, other than shrinking the pie.

Well he didn't bend over for Goodenow again to get another deal done. I consider that accomplishing something.

I really don't understand people who wanted Bettman to make a deal no matter how bad it is for the league. That's what he did last time.

 

[Canucker]

Personally i've never liked Gary Bettman. I've always thought of him as a little bobble-headed weasel, but he impressed me today in his speech and his candor while answering questions. Most importantly he even left the door opened for Goodenow to reconsider and negotiate the $42.5 cap. It's ridiculous that Goodenow won't explore negotiating when they were so close to a deal. If they can't agree on a straight number they need to get creative and work on triggers or have a cap that works on a sliding scale from the numbers indicated by both teams. I had hoped Trevor Linden would use some influence to try and convince the PA to get it done because Goodenow is bringing down the ship. Drop the ego and rhetoric Bob, pick up the phone and negotiate. Thats your job.

 

[Robert Paulson*]

They gave back TWENTY FOUR PERCENT of their salary.
To get hockey back, they agreed to a salary cap, which finally got us to the point where the PA and the league could have meaningful negotiations.

And then Bettman said TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Negotiation is a two way street.

Yeah, the players gave up the "no salary cap" stance and the owners gave up the "we must have linkage" stance. That's a two way street, no?

 

[sunb]

Yeah, the players gave up the "no salary cap" stance and the owners gave up the "we must have linkage" stance. That's a two way street, no?

In addition.....
Like jcab2000 said, the owners bent over for Goodenow 10 years ago but he's an idiot if he expects the owner to do this for him every time. It is a two way street but there doesn't seem to be any traffic from the NHLPA.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

It is obvious the players have lost much more.
Even if both Bettman and Goodenow failed in their jobs, Goodenow's performance was much worse.
Both the owners and the players have lost a lot today but I'd sure rather be an owner than a more loss-stricken player.

Have the players lost more ??? Probably ... but is the goal of the comissioner to lose the owners less money than the players ???

Nope. His goal is to make money ... and by not playing it isn't happening. (Not that most of the credit/blame should go to Bettman, he's just taking orders)

 

[jcab2000]

Have the players lost more ??? Probably ... but is the goal of the comissioner to lose the owners less money than the players ???

Nope. His goal is to make money ... and by not playing it isn't happening. (Not that most of the credit/blame should go to Bettman, he's just taking orders)

Most teams weren't making money when they were playing. So yes, his goal is for teams to make money, which is what all of this was about and what it will continue to be about.

 

[sunb]

Have the players lost more ??? Probably ... but is the goal of the comissioner to lose the owners less money than the players ???

Nope. His goal is to make money ... and by not playing it isn't happening. (Not that most of the credit/blame should go to Bettman, he's just taking orders)

At least Bettman has also won the PR (public relations) battle against Goodenow. The media and the fans are mostly behind Bettman after today's performance by both sides.

Bettman has also won enough grounds to declare an impasse and have it pass with a relatively good chance.

 

[dedalus]

In case I missed something Bettman hasn't acheived squat as of yet, other than shrinking the pie.

Ooooh yes he has.

1. He achieved something a YEAR ago when he arranged the cards such that he can fight a lasting and bitter war with minority support.

2. He's shown his owners that the players will crack if the owners will stand. They will even bend over and surrender on the ONE issue on which they vowed they would never surrender.

3. He's shown the NHPA rank and file that their leader has absolutely no understanding of his opponent. Yesterday was the second time that Goodenow was wrong as he proceeded under the assumption that Bettman would negotiate off a stated position.

He's crushed Goodenow from beginning to end of this, and one need not even look at his staggering victory in the PR war to say that any smart betting man would put his money squarely on ownership.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

At least Bettman has also won the PR (public relations) battle against Goodenow. The media and the fans are mostly behind Bettman after today's performance by both sides.

Bettman has also won enough grounds to declare an impasse and have it pass with a relatively good chance.

Bettman was won the PR battle, no doubt. It was something he deemed important, while the NHLPA didn't seem to care very much.

The PR war that Bettman has waged turning the fans against the players certainly won't helpl when trying to re-grow the game whenever play resumes.



Declaring an impasse and going with replacement players would be very dumb. Their best strategy would be to just sit and wait.