Bettman vs. Goodenow

[Ron C.]

In listening to both press conferences, two things have become clear to me. First, Gary Bettman is a smart man. I have never really liked this man since he referred to a phantom memo that it was OK for Brett Hull's skate to be in the crease.....but I digress. Bettman clearly and logically laid out how the league was losing money and put forth what ultimately would have been a reasonable proposal.

Goodenow, on the other hand, looked defensive after the bluff was called. I wonder if he has ever been forced to truly negotiate. He clearly had the upper hand in previous negotiations when the league was trying to expand (probably not the greatest idea) and trying to get players into the Olympics. I don't think he's ever been forced to deal from a position of relative weakness. When he said that players were not trying to INCREASE their share, all I could think about was Amelda Marcos not wanting to INCREASE her number of shoes.

I think the NHLPA needed someone with more negotiating experience running the show. Hockey players are dedicated and passionate, but let's not forget, very few even go to college or university. They rely on the advise of their consultants as do many of us. These consultants disputed the Levitt report, but wouldn't bother to examine the raw data to explain why.

I've been on the fence for the past few months, but now I don't think the players will ever get a better offer than the one they just turned down.

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[SENSible1*]

In listening to both press conferences, two things have become clear to me. First, Gary Bettman is a smart man. I have never really liked this man since he referred to a phantom memo that it was OK for Brett Hull's skate to be in the crease.....but I digress. Bettman clearly and logically laid out how the league was losing money and put forth what ultimately would have been a reasonable proposal.

Goodenow, on the other hand, looked defensive after the bluff was called. I wonder if he has ever been forced to truly negotiate. He clearly had the upper hand in previous negotiations when the league was trying to expand (probably not the greatest idea) and trying to get players into the Olympics. I don't think he's ever been forced to deal from a position of relative weakness. When he said that players were not trying to INCREASE their share, all I could think about was Amelda Marcos not wanting to INCREASE her number of shoes.

I think the NHLPA needed someone with more negotiating experience running the show. Hockey players are dedicated and passionate, but let's not forget, very few even go to college or university. They rely on the advise of their consultants as do many of us. These consultants disputed the Levitt report, but wouldn't bother to examine the raw data to explain why.

I've been on the fence for the past few months, but now I don't think the players will ever get a better offer than the one they just turned down.

Excellent post.

Bettman managed to pull off an extremely difficult day with passion, intelligence and class.

I'm sure his many detractors won't admit it and I do have some issues with the way he has run the NHL, but he was simply marvelous today and Goodenow paled in comparison.

 

[Doctor Zoidberg]

Excellent post.

Bettman managed to pull off an extremely difficult day with passion, intelligence and class.

I'm sure his many detractors won't admit it and I do have some issues with the way he has run the NHL, but he was simply marvelous today and Goodenow paled in comparison.

I'm surprised the mods haven't yanked this post, they have been so quick on the trigger today and put a real damper on probably the biggest day in the history of this board. Everything is a rant to them and this certainly qualifies... no offence.

 

[SENSible1*]

I'm surprised the mods haven't yanked this post, they have been so quick on the trigger today and put a real damper on probably the biggest day in the history of this board. Everything is a rant to them and this certainly qualifies... no offence.

Care to explain how my anlaysis of his performance, in a thread dedicated to the subject, qualifies as "a rant"?

 

[Doctor Zoidberg]

Care to explain how my anlaysis of his performance, in a thread dedicated to the subject, qualifies as "a rant"?

I'm just commenting on the mods today taking tons of posts down or locking them because they are deemed to be rants. Every opinion post seemed to get yanked today. I wouldn't consider this post a rant but by todays standards, it definitely would fit into that category. Not a comment on you or the OP, just the overly strict standard the mods have set for today.

 

[Luc Labelle]

Bettman managed to pull off an extremely difficult day with passion, intelligence and class.

My sentiments exactly, I have always despised the way Bettman speaks and attempts to spin the unspinnable. The feeling I got receiving the worst news that I as a hockey fan could possibly hear was: "Wow, what a classy, respectful and humble press conference from beginning to end." Not a single reporter was able to bait Bettman to veer off course. I actually stood up in front of the TV and applauded. Color me impressed.

 

[MLH]

When I was watching the press conference I thought to myself the exact same thing. I would actually like Bettman had he not lied out of his ass to cover up the No Goal incident.

 

[eye]

If I am a player listening to Bettman clearly explain their position today I am calling Goodenow right away and demanding that that players accept a cap of 40 hard. It's time for players to put their money where their sympathetic "we care about the fans mouth" is.

Bettman's position and closing remarks on behalf of the owners was so much more believable, logical and passionate than the redhead Ronny Howard look a like could convey. Goodenow reminded me of Clinton when being asked about Monica. Same lying mannerisms.

 

[Clash*]

Just a question about Bettman. Did anyone notice the nervous "tick" he seemed to have?

 

[eye]

Just a question about Bettman. Did anyone notice the nervous "tick" he seemed to have?

That wasn't nerves and if you paid attention he always does that. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China anyway?

 

[Member 23807]

I must say my opinion of Bettman has gotten a lot better in the past 8 hours. I saw the press conference and then heard him on the fan 590 and anyone who saw it or heard his interview sees and feels the passion from which he speaks of.

A lot of people have criticized him, much of it warranted, but for the first time I see that he truly does care for the game. It wasn't rhetoric like we saw from Goodenow. I mean Goodenow comes out and says he won't apologize because Bettman started the lockout. I mean what are we? 7 year old kids now? blaming eachother without taking any responsibility for the mess the league is in?

It's high time the NHLPA and its players take some responsibility in all of this. I know the owners got carried away with salaries and contracts and the players benefited. And now that the players have made millions over the past 10 years it's time for them to do the right thing.

PJStyles

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

And now that the players have made millions over the past 10 years it's time for them to do the right thing.

PJStyles

They gave back TWENTY FOUR PERCENT of their salary.
To get hockey back, they agreed to a salary cap, which finally got us to the point where the PA and the league could have meaningful negotiations.

And then Bettman said TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Negotiation is a two way street.

 

[Captain Conservative]

Just a question about Bettman. Did anyone notice the nervous "tick" he seemed to have?

Yeah, it looked like parkinson's. Not a tick, but a constant movement of the head. Kind of wobbly.

 

[rwilson99]

Just a question about Bettman. Did anyone notice the nervous "tick" he seemed to have?

He was a goalie in a previous life... who cares.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Moreso, Bettman looked composed, confident (but somber still) and professional. He may be a runt when it comes to hockey-related issues, but the guy did his homework, he stood his ground and he beat Goodenow at his own game.

Meanwhile, Bob Goodenow looks like a fish out of water... eveybody knew what his tactics and his weaknesses were - he sits back and waits for the other side to start negotiating against themselves. Well, when Bettman played and beat him at his own game, he was lost... and man has he ever broken alot of promises.

Today, Gary Bettman is the big winner. The NHLPA and various media figures were calling the league bluff. If they were bluffing, the owners would have folded like a cheap Wal-Mart tent. By standing their ground on a 42.5 (which came after fighting tooth adn nail to raise it from 42 to 42.5) they showed the players that they weren't all that full of it. Right now, its clear what the owners breaking point is: 42.5 mill. Yeah, they hide figures ect ect... thats how they got from 31 to 42.5 By standing their ground, everyone should realize what the owners breaking point is... and since Goodenow put all his eggs in his "owners are bluffing" basket, he'll have to do alot of backtracking when your average Chris Clark wonders why he's losing 20% of his career income.

 

[neelynugs]

They gave back TWENTY FOUR PERCENT of their salary.
To get hockey back, they agreed to a salary cap, which finally got us to the point where the PA and the league could have meaningful negotiations.

And then Bettman said TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Negotiation is a two way street.

you're really sucking up to the farce that is the 24% rollback, eh? so what...the PA accepted a cap...it was inevitable. but the BS luxury tax and height of the cap was ridiculous - 42.5M is more than reasonable. this union is insane IMO for rejecting. tell us again how great goodenow and the PA is...please.

 

[rwilson99]

I must say my opinion of Bettman has gotten a lot better in the past 8 hours. I saw the press conference and then heard him on the fan 590 and anyone who saw it or heard his interview sees and feels the passion from which he speaks of.

A lot of people have criticized him, much of it warranted, but for the first time I see that he truly does care for the game. It wasn't rhetoric like we saw from Goodenow. I mean Goodenow comes out and says he won't apologize because Bettman started the lockout. I mean what are we? 7 year old kids now? blaming eachother without taking any responsibility for the mess the league is in?

It's high time the NHLPA and its players take some responsibility in all of this. I know the owners got carried away with salaries and contracts and the players benefited. And now that the players have made millions over the past 10 years it's time for them to do the right thing.

PJStyles

I could not agree more... I found Bettman likable and credible during his press conference today, and my opinion only grew when I had the chance to hear his adversary speak for the first time.

 

[Captain Conservative]

They gave back TWENTY FOUR PERCENT of their salary.
To get hockey back, they agreed to a salary cap, which finally got us to the point where the PA and the league could have meaningful negotiations.

And then Bettman said TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Negotiation is a two way street.

I'd love to think that Bettman is gonna come out and say that the NHL is offering a 42.5 soft cap 44 hard cap in the interest of the NHL, NHLPA and the fans. I can't see that happening though. If he did that, i'm sure that either a)Goodenow would be receptive or b)more likely, the powers that be on the NHLPA's side would yank Goodenow or force him to accept it.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Bettman was much better in his press conference today, than Goodenow no doubt about that.

That doesn't mean he was right, smarter than Goodenow, etc. etc. Just means that he's a better public speaker, and better at this type of forum.

 

[neelynugs]

I'd love to think that Bettman is gonna come out and say that the NHL is offering a 42.5 soft cap 44 hard cap in the interest of the NHL, NHLPA and the fans. I can't see that happening though. If he did that, i'm sure that either a)Goodenow would be receptive or b)more likely, the powers that be on the NHLPA's side would yank Goodenow or force him to accept it.

the PA should force goodenow to accept the 42.5M offer...i mean, gimme a break, does ANYONE think the offer can get better in the future? speak now

 

[Dan-o]

They gave back TWENTY FOUR PERCENT of their salary.
To get hockey back, they agreed to a salary cap, which finally got us to the point where the PA and the league could have meaningful negotiations.

And then Bettman said TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Negotiation is a two way street.

First of all, the 24% rollback doesn't get my support in any way. It may seem enormous to you or me, but really that means the players are gonna make, on average, $1.1 million instead of $1.5 million per year. These players need some perspective if they think the game, and the NHL specifically, hasn't been very good to them right there.

And the PA only agreed to the cap after the league agreed to drop the revenue linking. Who got the negotiations started on Monday? It wasn't the PA.

 

[neelynugs]

Bettman was much better in his press conference today, than Goodenow no doubt about that.

That doesn't mean he was right, smarter than Goodenow, etc. etc. Just means that he's a better public speaker, and better at this type of forum.

i love it...you've gotta be kidding me. excuses, excuses, excuses. the fact is, goodenow only proved to the world that he miscalculated this negotiation, and led the players off the cliff. you really think a 42.5M cap is unfair?

 

[Phanuthier*]

They gave back TWENTY FOUR PERCENT of their salary.
To get hockey back, they agreed to a salary cap, which finally got us to the point where the PA and the league could have meaningful negotiations.

And then Bettman said TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

Negotiation is a two way street.

Oh wow! 24%!!! Yeah, that'll save the league.

I mean, 1/3 of the players are FA's, that 24% rollback (= 24% the 30 owners now have freed up to BLOW on a bunch of free agents, possibly driving up salaries HIGHER then they currently are) will be a HUGE help.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

i love it...you've gotta be kidding me. excuses, excuses, excuses. the fact is, goodenow only proved to the world that he miscalculated this negotiation, and led the players off the cliff. you really think a 42.5M cap is unfair?

Both the owners and the players went over the cliff today, and both sides lost and lost huge.

 

[Ar-too]

Bettman was much better in his press conference today, than Goodenow no doubt about that.

That doesn't mean he was right, smarter than Goodenow, etc. etc. Just means that he's a better public speaker, and better at this type of forum.

If that's really what it was about, then the PA needed someone else doing that presser.