Bettman Ultimatum: $42.5 M Cap, Final Offer

[Hockeyfan02]

Well at least it will all be over tommorow morning. Whether we have a season or we dont have a season. I dont like the "take it or leave it" approach taken by Bettman in these late stages. I would have liked to have seen negotiating between the two sides, but now it looks like its all on the players. They've accepted a salary cap, but will they accept one this low? Hopefully there will be a press conference tommorow announcing the season is saved. I think we're all tired of talking CBA at this point.

 

[tuckerdomi]

Season will start in 3 weeks, Bettman will fold last minute and give abit more. theres a 2hour period between the time he wants the answer and the press conference. I can feel it, its going to happen.

 

[Scoogs]

I was doing the math on my computers calculator, since Im so smart

42.5 Million each team

2,100,000,000 Revenues

42,500,000 * 30 = 1,275,000,000

2,100,000,000 * 60% = 1,260,000,000

Which means the NHL has still allowed the NHLPA to take up at least 60% of their revenues.

Im not saying every team will reach their hard cap, but thats ALOT of movement from the proposed 52%-54% before...

****ing take it PA.... PLEASE

 

[ChiHawks468]

I think Bettman has to make an ultimatium at this point, I just don't think sending the letter to every media outlet in North America was a good idea. He could be trying to flush out Goodenoew's BEST final offer. Goodenow is known as the "deadline Hunter", the press conference being originally set for Tues and then being moved to Wed makes it seem like a "floating deadline". Now he has a hard deadline, so he best get hunting.

 

[Jobu]

Last proposal might be important in an IMPASSE ruling ... So while Bettman says NO .. THIS IS FINAL OFFER .. Goodenow should send NHL one anyway ..

Then if Bettman cancels the season over a few million the blood is on his hands .. he is trying to leave the final bullet in Goodenow gun to put the season out of its misery .

No way an impasse declaration will hold up given how close the parties appear to be. We're not even different concepts anymore, just #s.

 

[Mess]

I was watching Sportsnet and they did confirm that the offer the NHL submitted included a floor of $32M per team. At $42.5M x 30 Clubs = $1.275 Billion.

That translates into 61% of league revenues assuming league revenues are $2.1 Billion. We all know that league revenues will more than likely be lower than that going forward as a result of this lockout. I think the players would be silly not to take this offer.

As many here have posted, the difference is basically $10 Million per team x 30 = $300 Million / 720 players = $416,000 per player. Average player salary goes from $1.8M to $1.4M.

I see nothing wrong with this at all and if the NHLPA rejects this, they are bigger fools than I thought. Say all you will about Bettman's tactics, a final offer was the only thing he could do at this point to stick with a cap that was meaningful. Anything higher than 60% of league revenues in my eyes is too much so this offer is just the right amount for both parties.

PJStyles

Excellent post but ..

Everyone always uses the High number and multiplies by 30 .. to get 61 % ..

I believe a more accurate figure would be take the bottom 32 million X 30 etc .. as I believe more teams will be closer to that amount then the HIGH figure .. IMO ..

The 32 mil remember was from the levitt report and what teams could pay ..

My question would be .. If we have a bottom of 32 why could the 30 NHL owners not agree to keep Salaries near that figure .. not need to go for the High amount .. So why not agree to say 45 high if 80% of the teams have not intention going above 40 Mil ??

 

[kerrly]

I was doing the math on my computers calculator, since Im so smart

42.5 Million each team

2,100,000,000 Revenues

42,500,000 * 30 = 1,275,000,000

2,100,000,000 * 60% = 1,260,000,000

Which means the NHL has still allowed the NHLPA to take up at least 60% of their revenues.

Im not saying every team will reach their hard cap, but thats ALOT of movement from the proposed 52%-54% before...

****ing take it PA.... PLEASE

It only looks so simple to a few of us, that this isn't that horrible of a deal and is clearly the best one they will get. But I just don't see it that easy for the NHLPA to come down from a $52m cap (and potentially higher) and take this one. I'm sure it was hard enough to make this proposal yesterday, eventhough its just essentially a soft cap/luxury tax with some teeth but the ability to spend high. I'm not too hopeful right now.

 

[X8oD]

My question would be .. If we have a bottom of 32 why could the 30 NHL owners not agree to keep Salaries near that figure .. not need to go for the High amount .. So why not agree to say 45 high if 80% of the teams have not intention going above 40 Mil ??

because the NHLPA woudl sue them for collusion.

the nHLPA would LOVE this to happen

 

[kenabnrmal]

I was watching Sportsnet and they did confirm that the offer the NHL submitted included a floor of $32M per team. At $42.5M x 30 Clubs = $1.275 Billion.

That translates into 61% of league revenues assuming league revenues are $2.1 Billion. We all know that league revenues will more than likely be lower than that going forward as a result of this lockout. I think the players would be silly not to take this offer.

As many here have posted, the difference is basically $10 Million per team x 30 = $300 Million / 720 players = $416,000 per player. Average player salary goes from $1.8M to $1.4M.

I see nothing wrong with this at all and if the NHLPA rejects this, they are bigger fools than I thought. Say all you will about Bettman's tactics, a final offer was the only thing he could do at this point to stick with a cap that was meaningful. Anything higher than 60% of league revenues in my eyes is too much so this offer is just the right amount for both parties.

PJStyles

Thats a solid post. Not sure if I agree 100% just yet, but its a very good post.

 

[Member 23807]

I just re-read the letter by Bettman and I must say it's not as bad as many people are saying it is. He was straight to the point and I didn't find it insulting in the least. I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about it.

It's funny though, listening to the way Bob McCowan read it on the Fan590 definitely made it sound worse but when reading it myself, I have no problems with it at all.

PJStyles

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Bettman just wants to break the union and thats what this offer is all about.

Cool. I wonder if Bettman can be named Commisioner of MLB too.

 

[Scoogs]

I was watching Sportsnet and they did confirm that the offer the NHL submitted included a floor of $32M per team. At $42.5M x 30 Clubs = $1.275 Billion.

That translates into 61% of league revenues assuming league revenues are $2.1 Billion. We all know that league revenues will more than likely be lower than that going forward as a result of this lockout. I think the players would be silly not to take this offer.

As many here have posted, the difference is basically $10 Million per team x 30 = $300 Million / 720 players = $416,000 per player. Average player salary goes from $1.8M to $1.4M.

I see nothing wrong with this at all and if the NHLPA rejects this, they are bigger fools than I thought. Say all you will about Bettman's tactics, a final offer was the only thing he could do at this point to stick with a cap that was meaningful. Anything higher than 60% of league revenues in my eyes is too much so this offer is just the right amount for both parties.

PJStyles

I completely missed that post.. after working so hard on mine.

 

[Mess]

because the NHLPA woudl sue them for collusion.

the nHLPA would LOVE this to happen

I knew someone would say that but it makes no sense .. The rule is Salary between 32 and 42 .. Teams can do the math and if cost based on Revenue is 55% and close to 32 amount the NHLPA can't force them to spend more ..

 

[Tawnos]

You know, I think if Goodenow comes down to 45 or 46, and Bettman just straight refuses... Bettman might have a mutiny on his hands.

To cancel the season over 2.5-3.5 million is ludicrous.

 

[mrs9x]

The problem for the PA is that if they reject the proposal, they will not get any better offer next year. Projected league revenues will continue to go down, meaning the cap will have to go down.

 

[Member 23807]

My question would be .. If we have a bottom of 32 why could the 30 NHL owners not agree to keep Salaries near that figure .. not need to go for the High amount .. So why not agree to say 45 high if 80% of the teams have not intention going above 40 Mil ??

Because the higher the cap, the more inequality you will see in the league which has been the problem since league expansion took us to 30 teams. There's no doubt that the league expanded too quickly and 30 teams is about 6 too many. However, we have to accept the fact that there are in fact 30 teams.

Therefore, if you allow the range to be larger ie: $32M Floor and $45M ceiling, the difference between the have's and have-nots will continue to be meaningful enough that Toronto, Detroit and others will continue to attract the higher payroll teams and presumably have better chances of making the playoffs and winning the stanley cup.

The owners don't want a cap just to control costs, they want to even out the playing field between the haves and have-nots.

Many have said that looking at the maximum cap amount isn't realistic but if I were to wager a guess, if you added up all the league payrolls last year and averaged it out per club, it was probably in excess of $42.5M. I do not have any facts to support this but it's a guess on my part.

PJStyles

 

[vanlady]

I knew someone would say that but it makes no sense .. The rule is Salary between 32 and 42 .. Teams can do the math and if cost based on Revenue is 55% and close to 32 amount the NHLPA can't force them to spend more ..

Hold on wasn't the league just selling 32-42 million as 53-55% of revenues? Some people here seem to have inflated that to 60% or more.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Cool. I wonder if Bettman can be named Commisioner of MLB too.

Do we need to go through this in every thread? Dude i have showed you twice now how the mlb cba has worked for the owners and players. All you can come up with is ratings (i schooled you on that) and a report with george will on it (i schooled you on that to considering that george will is a part OWNER and would want to keep player costs down)

Tonight lets discuss this labor dispute.

Bettmans offer tonight was about trying to squeeze every last dime out of the players. This is personal to him and not about business. After reading that letter bettman sent a small part of me hopes the nhlpa walks away from this and waits this out as long as they can. (a larger part of me hopes they accept the offer so i can watch my beloved new york rangers) Come on it would be the first time in 7 years the rangers have been in the playoff hunt in March.

Again i know your jaded and i know you hate the yankees but tonight lets just discuss this lockout.

 

[MrMackey]

Hold on wasn't the league just selling 32-42 million as 53-55% of revenues? Some people here seem to have inflated that to 60% or more.

Previously the league had been talking about 55% overall league revenues as one of the triggers or 3 clubs with $42M as another. It was not equating $42M to 55%.

A hard cap with what the league is now proposing represents around 60% overall revenues, but most teams will not be spending the cap limit.

 

[Enoch]

Looking at the #s of last years salaries, you can see why an ultimatum had to be set:

11 teams were over 45 million last year, 13 over 40 million. On the flip side, only 5 teams were below 30 million, and one of those (the Wild) would have easily been able to reach 30.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2003-04

The players really need to push hard to get revenue sharing included. This league NEEDS revenue sharing badly - both for cap reasons, finacial claims, etc.

----

Ferraro is saying he may be hearing a .60 cent tax on salary over 34 or so million dollars....*per ESPN radio*

 

[Member 23807]

Here you have it guys : (USA Today Source)

2003-04

Team Total Payroll
Detroit Red Wings $ 77,856,109
New York Rangers $ 76,488,716
Dallas Stars $ 68,578,885
Philadelphia Flyers $ 68,175,247
Colorado Avalanche $ 63,382,458
Toronto Maple Leafs $ 62,458,140
St. Louis Blues $ 61,675,000
Los Angeles Kings $ 53,833,800
Anaheim Mighty Ducks $ 53,296,750
Washington Capitals $ 50,895,750
New Jersey Devils $ 48,931,658
Boston Bruins $ 46,569,000
Vancouver Canucks $ 42,074,500
New York Islanders $ 40,865,500
Ottawa Senators $ 39,590,000
Phoenix Coyotes $ 39,249,750
Montreal Canadiens $ 38,857,000
Calgary Flames $ 36,402,575
Carolina Hurricanes $ 35,908,738
San Jose Sharks $ 34,455,000
Tampa Bay Lightning $ 34,065,379
Columbus Blue Jackets $ 34,000,000
Edmonton Oilers $ 33,375,000
Buffalo Sabres $ 32,954,250
Chicago Blackhawks $ 30,867,502
Atlanta Thrashers $ 28,547,500
Minnesota Wild $ 27,200,500
Florida Panthers $ 26,127,500
Pittsburgh Penguins $ 23,400,000
Nashville Predators $ 21,932,500

Average Payroll = $44,400,490

So when many here are saying that looking simply at the max. cap as the number to use when analyzing the proposal is unrealistic, I say it's very realistic given that teams last year spent on average $44.4M.

Clearly there will be a few teams that will spend less than that, but I think it's clear that the proposal the NHL put forward today was a meaningful one and the NHLPA would be, in my estimation, be making a huge mistake if they turned it down.

PJStyles

 

[MeatTornado]

If the NHLPA comes back and says "46 million dollar cap, and you've got a season", theres no way the NHL would really say no to that. I think both sides want to get this over with, and I think they'll come up with a compromise. Betteman's letter to Goodenow, I am sure, is merely trying to simply choke the life out of the union. The NHL has already won the battle, Gary just wants to get as much as he can. I am sure there is flexibility on the 42 mil cap.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

If any team can't spend $32M on players, then they shouldn't be in the league.

its not that they can't, its just pointless. Well some can't, and your right they shouldn't be in the league. Why should a team in full rebuild mode be forced to overpay players just to meet a floor? Personally, I do agree with a floor, but 32 is too high. I'm thinking 25 million. That way rebuilding teams aren't forced to spend too much just for the hell of it, and if you are so poor you can't reach 25 million, sell the team to an owner who can.

 

[Mess]

Because the higher the cap, the more inequality you will see in the league which has been the problem since league expansion took us to 30 teams. There's no doubt that the league expanded too quickly and 30 teams is about 6 too many. However, we have to accept the fact that there are in fact 30 teams.

Therefore, if you allow the range to be larger ie: $32M Floor and $45M ceiling, the difference between the have's and have-nots will continue to be meaningful enough that Toronto, Detroit and others will continue to attract the higher payroll teams and presumably have better chances of making the playoffs and winning the stanley cup.

The owners don't want a cap just to control costs, they want to even out the playing field between the haves and have-nots.

Many have said that looking at the maximum cap amount isn't realistic but if I were to wager a guess, if you added up all the league payrolls last year and averaged it out per club, it was probably in excess of $42.5M. I do not have any facts to support this but it's a guess on my part.

PJStyles

Okay .. But lets make the statement that if the range was 32-42 then you would have the bulk of the teams in the middle at say 35 -36 so even if the needed to increase the ceiling to 45 to get a deal .. You would still have a 10 mil dif from TOP to AVERAGE .. NO??

and the thing to consider also is injuries so a Team at the high number might have a few key injuries so while the gap looks big .. Actually players in games may not be 10 mil apart ..

 

[Reilly311]

If the NHLPA comes back and says "46 million dollar cap, and you've got a season", theres no way the NHL would really say no to that

Wrong. The owners in the end will get what they want.