Rumor: Bettman Talking Expansion

[operasen]

With Bettman coming out at 5PM today to bring up the expansion topic (RFP process), I wonder what that does to the scenario around deadwood contracts expiring next year (Phillips, Neil, Legwand, etc).

They would force Puempel, Prince et all back to the AHL this season and that would probably mean they do not have to be considered when deciding to protect a percentage of the roster as the newer teams pick. They would simply fall off the team.

It could also mean we carry three goaltenders this year with that in mind as well.

It would only impact if the expansion was for next season, and its probably two (??) from now. But it will impact all the young guys we are growing somehow.

Off topic. Quebec City has to get one, either by relocation (Florida??) or expansion, with two others to the West (Seattle, Kansas City) and one more shifting cities (Arizona to Vegas).

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[BonkTastic]

With Bettman coming out at 5PM today to bring up the expansion topic (RFP process), I wonder what that does to the scenario around deadwood contracts expiring next year (Phillips, Neil, Legwand, etc).

Phillips, Neil and Legwand will all be long gone and off the books before Expansion "forces" us to make decisions on them.

That said, it's an interesting concept you bring up - the idea that we could force guys to play an extra year in the AHL so we don't have to protect them for a 2016/17 expansion draft. I definitely wouldn't put it past a LOT of NHL org's to do, including ours. We saw just how readily teams are willing to tank during a premiere draft year, I have no doubts that a lot of teams would similarly hold off on promoting prospects for a year so that they get full value from their farm system in future post-expansion seasons.

 

[DJB]

Expansion is a bad idea. We can barely keep about 5 team afloat right now as it is.

Relocation is a smarter idea.

 

[BonkTastic]

Expansion is a bad idea. We can barely keep about 5 team afloat right now as it is.

Relocation is a smarter idea.

Best bet is on it being both.

Expand to the markets that will pay a half-billion dollars for an NHL team (Las Vegas, etc...), and relocate the worst of the current teams to places like Quebec City or Portland - cities that probably don't want to pony up a half-bill, but places where NHL teams would be safe bets.

 

[jason2020]

I think what will happen is Florida/Arizona/Carolina will fold then the league will grant 3 expansion teams.

 

[BonkTastic]

I think what will happen is Florida/Arizona/Carolina will fold then the league will grant 3 expansion teams.

There is like a 0.00004% chance that any current NHL team folds.

The NHL would move Arizona to a "second tier" city like Oklahoma City or Milwaukee before letting them fold.


*second tier = not meant as a negative or "bad cities", just not prime relocation destinations.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Exansion is inevitable. It will happen sooner than later. I believe the decision to sign Hammond and divest in Anderson or Lehner is a move with expansion in mind. Recoup some assets now as opposed to leaving a goalie who we invested plenty of time money and resources into unprotected for the expansion process. That allows us to leave Hammond and his million-ish unprotected while protecting more roster players at the same time.

The issue is that Vancouver and New York are clearly maximizing the value of their backups too, possibly with the same motivation as we have. The supply of goalies is flooding the market. Looking back a few years from now, though, getting a half decent return back for Lehner, for example, and being able to protect more of our roster players as a result when Hammond is left exposed could turn out to be a huge win in the long term.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Ottawa would be largely unaffected by expansion next season.

I'm pretty sure the number of NHL games a player must play to have to be protected would be 49. So a guy like Prince could be Ottawa's 13th forward this season, play roughly 2/3rds of the games, and still be exempt.

With Prince not being waiver exempt, there's already a chance that Puempel will have to start in the AHL despite the Senators possibly thinking he is the better player. The same thing happened to Pageau at the start of this year.

Assuming the expansion draft has the same protection rules as before and it takes place after this upcoming season, the Senators don't really have anything to lose. Most of the guys left unprotected would be upcoming UFAs (Gryba, Neil, Phillips, Legwand), or veterans with only one year left on their deal prior to becoming UFAs (Michalek, Smith)......or Colin Greening.

The best realistic targets for an expansion team from Ottawa would probably be Hammond (assuming he's not actually a .930 goalie and as most suspect is just a low end starter or solid back up), Chiasson, and Boroweicki.

Those aren't exactly names that would result in the team being set back decades if they lose them.

 

[TheNewEra]

my guess has always been that the league wants to expand to 32 teams

quebec, seattle then move the negative profit teams around to other cities

 

[Caeldan]

Ottawa would be largely unaffected by expansion next season.

I'm pretty sure the number of NHL games a player must play to have to be protected would be 49. So a guy like Prince could be Ottawa's 13th forward this season, play roughly 2/3rds of the games, and still be exempt.

With Prince not being waiver exempt, there's already a chance that Puempel will have to start in the AHL despite the Senators possibly thinking he is the better player. The same thing happened to Pageau at the start of this year.

Assuming the expansion draft has the same protection rules as before and it takes place after this upcoming season, the Senators don't really have anything to lose. Most of the guys left unprotected would be upcoming UFAs (Gryba, Neil, Phillips, Legwand), or veterans with only one year left on their deal prior to becoming UFAs (Michalek, Smith)......or Colin Greening.

The best realistic targets for an expansion team from Ottawa would probably be Hammond (assuming he's not actually a .930 goalie and as most suspect is just a low end starter or solid back up), Chiasson, and Boroweicki.

Those aren't exactly names that would result in the team being set back decades if they lose them.

I think the rules for protecting players have changed nearly every expansion... so using past rules doesn't necessarily mean anything to predict the future rules.

Probably all depends on how many teams and how quickly they plan to expand. You'd assume only 2 new teams to get to 32 and stop there, with relocation being an option for some other the other locations to balance everything out in the end at 16 a conference.

 

[operasen]

Confirmed

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl-approves-opening-expansion-process-1.316896

 

[Ouroboros]

Melnyk gonna get dem expansion bux.

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Melnyk gonna get dem expansion bux.

Really is nuts considering that Firestone and co. payed 50 million for the Sens a little over two decades ago.

 

[Benjamin]

Expansion is a bad idea. We can barely keep about 5 team afloat right now as it is.

Relocation is a smarter idea.

The only teams struggling are Yotes, Stars, and Canes that im aware of.

New Jersey is fine now I think. Columbus?

Yotes should have been moved a long time ago. Stars and Canes will probably be given more time to rebound.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

For the love of OCD, please expand to 32 teams and balance both conferences & divisions! The East/West unbalance is killing me.

As for fan support....really, who cares? If you have owners willing to take a financial hit to stay somewhere, then don't bother moving. Let's not forget, some big hockey cities like Chicago, Quebec City (back in the day), Islanders, etc, have had attendance issues. With the quick turnaround and parity with the salary cap these days, it takes a massive amount of incompetence for a team to stay at the bottom of the standings for a significant amount of time. Give the fans hope they can compete, and hype up the kids a bit more in the draft, and you'll boost attendance across the board fairly easily.

 

[source]

The only teams struggling are Yotes, Stars, and Canes that im aware of.

New Jersey is fine now I think. Columbus?

Yotes should have been moved a long time ago. Stars and Canes will probably be given more time to rebound.

Florida has got to be in trouble with their attendance issues.

 

[Benjamin]

Florida has got to be in trouble with their attendance issues.

Bonk explained it good a few weeks ago. Something about the owners needing the panthers for the arena and they are making money elsewhere to offset the Panthers.

 

[source]

Bonk explained it good a few weeks ago. Something about the owners needing the panthers for the arena and they are making money elsewhere to offset the Panthers.

The Panthers' owners won't tolerate a losing franchise forever. Ideally the Panthers get moved to Quebec, and Seattle + Las Vegas get teams. Quebec won't fork over $500 million to the NHL for a new franchise.

FYI Forbes rated the the Panthers as the #30 franchise. This CBC article gives a good picture of the numbers.

 

[Benjamin]

The Panthers' owners won't tolerate a losing franchise forever. Ideally the Panthers get moved to Quebec, and Seattle + Las Vegas get teams. Quebec won't fork over $500 million to the NHL for a new franchise.

FYI Forbes rated the the Panthers as the #30 franchise. This CBC article gives a good picture of the numbers.

Panthers are losing millions but that situation is making the owner millions.

 

[source]

Panthers are losing millions but that situation is making the owner millions.

You'll have to explain how it works. What exactly is keeping the Panthers in Florida long-term?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Panthers have too many good young pieces to be in the basement forever. Once they make the playoffs, you'll see the fans start showing up again.

 

[Benjamin]

You'll have to explain how it works. What exactly is keeping the Panthers in Florida long-term?

Found it

I don't see the Panthers moving for at least a decade, if ever.


The Panthers don't make any money, but the Panthers are just one part of Sunrise Sports and Entertainment, which makes a LOT of money. SS&E's major cash cow is the fact that the city of Sunrise promised SS&E full authority to operate the arena as part of the agreement to lure them out of Miami, combined with massive tax breaks and a carte blanche to do whatever they want, is a big time money maker for them.

They caveat to the agreement is that they need to keep the Panthers in Sunrise order to keep their lucrative rights to operate the arena, so they put up with the Panthers losses because their gains elsewhere running the arena more than offset the red ink that the Panthers generate.


For the Panthers to move, the current owners would either have to start losing more money on hockey than they gain through other arena activities (which is unlikely), or just decide that they don't like money anymore, and would like someone else to make money now.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The Panthers' owners won't tolerate a losing franchise forever. Ideally the Panthers get moved to Quebec, and Seattle + Las Vegas get teams. Quebec won't fork over $500 million to the NHL for a new franchise.

FYI Forbes rated the the Panthers as the #30 franchise. This CBC article gives a good picture of the numbers.

He will because he basically "owns" the arena

 

[Ttracer*]

Panthers aren't going anywhere, they have solid season seat buyers. You would too if season seats cost 20$ a game and you can possibly see a winning team. That stadium was packed and loud vs NJ a few years ago in the playoffs, all FLA fans. Casual fans in the south wont pay to see losers, but this is Florida the state of crazy wealth. Empty seats are paid for

 

[Sens Rule]

With Bettman coming out at 5PM today to bring up the expansion topic (RFP process), I wonder what that does to the scenario around deadwood contracts expiring next year (Phillips, Neil, Legwand, etc).

They would force Puempel, Prince et all back to the AHL this season and that would probably mean they do not have to be considered when deciding to protect a percentage of the roster as the newer teams pick. They would simply fall off the team.

It could also mean we carry three goaltenders this year with that in mind as well.

It would only impact if the expansion was for next season, and its probably two (??) from now. But it will impact all the young guys we are growing somehow.

Off topic. Quebec City has to get one, either by relocation (Florida??) or expansion, with two others to the West (Seattle, Kansas City) and one more shifting cities (Arizona to Vegas).

That is incredibly overthinking things. You don't do anything different then you otherwise would. Worry about the expansion draft after whatever season it is going to happen.