Bettman Story...can anyone confirm if it's true?

[Bear of Bad News]

This post says a LOT more about the original poster than it ever will about Bettman. Irrational and ignorant hate is an ugly thing.

I hate hate. And I'm intolerant of intolerance.

And lactose.

But I love Vincent Riendeau!

 

[FlyerFan]

Another bitter big market fan. Sorry buying a championship is no longer a possibility.

Did you even READ my post? MY WHOLE POINT WAS THAT THIS KIND OF SPENDING IS WHAT FACILITATED THE MESS WHICH LED TO THE LOCKOUT AND CANCELLED SEASON!!!

I'm merely providing a rebuttal to a pro-management/anti-player shill who can't or won't accept the sins of management.

 

[FlyerFan]

10 Million for Chris Gratton.

This is another excellent example of the kind of spending which I felt contributed to salary escalation.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[FlyerFan]

This post says a LOT more about the original poster than it ever will about Bettman. Irrational and ignorant hate is an ugly thing.

I don't have ANY problem with Bettman, expansion, a salary cap, or the New NHL, but to sit here after two lockouts and a cancelled season and blame EVERYTHING on Goodenow and the union while finding NO fault with Bettman and management is simply dishonest.

 

[Svatos4MVP]

Bettman isn't a bad commish, he's just not a very good one. A salary cap, expansion, and the two lockouts will be his legacy. I think the salary cap was a good thing, but his lust for expansion isn't good and the lockouts hurt the NHL a lot. Overall, I'd give Bettman a C+ for his performance.

 

[Hasbro]

This post says a LOT more about the original poster than it ever will about Bettman. Irrational and ignorant hate is an ugly thing.

So if you hate be rational and well informed about it.

 

[Sybil227]

Bettman also put a team in Minnesota back (about time), and they sell out every single game. Putting a team in Columbus was a great idea, as well, seeing all the fan support there. Tampa Bay has great attendance, almost 20,000 a night, and Dallas gets very good fan support, as well. Colorado has had a sellout streak since 1995, I think, and have grown into a dynasty (relocation was a GOOD decision here). Atlanta, Nashville, Miami, and Phoenix are all very big cities, and have a bunch of room to grow (winning teams will help a bunch). This year, Carolina has done pretty well attendance wise, and have sold out every playoff game. If the expansion teams get success, don't be surprised if you see Hartford, Kansas City, Winnipeg, and Houston next. Also, average attendance at NHL games are higher than at NBA games (don't believe me? Check this year's stats. No big TV Contract yet, though), the game has improved since the salary cap, and the Canadian teams and the small market teams have all been helped. I say, there is more good than bad about Bettman's tenure.

Okay, I know this is a little off the topic subject - and the topic has strayed far away from this post. But I just started reading this thread & came across this post. It reminded me of things I've read that say hockey is MUCH better in person than on TV. And it's true. So much play happens away from the puck - and the TV screen just follows the puck. I have a friend who has big, wide HD TV, and recently watched an HD broadcast of a hockey game. He said you can see about 60% of the ice now & it's soooo much better to watch. I get the feeling as HD spreads, hockey ratings will go up - which will be a good thing for the league.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

So if you hate be rational and well informed about it.

Correct. A rational and well informed person would not hate Bettman. He or she would recognize he saved the league from the abyss it was being driven over when he came on board, by shortsighted owners and greedy players. He would also recognize that Bettman knows more about hockey than probably 99% of the people posting here, a number which certainly includes the original poster and all the other haters, many of whom made a fool of themselves plenty during the lockout on this very board.

I wonder if there would even BE an NHL these days if we had had a less capable commissioner.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I don't have ANY problem with Bettman, expansion, a salary cap, or the New NHL, but to sit here after two lockouts and a cancelled season and blame EVERYTHING on Goodenow and the union while finding NO fault with Bettman and management is simply dishonest.

Just to clarify - the fact that someone doesn't insist on making personal attacks on Gary Bettman does not mean that they place all of the blame on Goodenow and the union.

To argue otherwise, as you've done, is a strawman.

 

[FlyerFan]

Just to clarify - the fact that someone doesn't insist on making personal attacks on Gary Bettman does not mean that they place all of the blame on Goodenow and the union.

To argue otherwise, as you've done, is a strawman.

I'm intrigued. Just what blame or criticism would you like to share with this community on Gary Bettman and management through two lockouts and one cancelled season?

 

[Timmy]

Just to clarify - the fact that someone doesn't insist on making personal attacks on Gary Bettman does not mean that they place all of the blame on Goodenow and the union.

To argue otherwise, as you've done, is a strawman.

The CBA was a method to control SOME of the owners for the sake of the rest. Goodenow played a good game, but in the end, he was nailed from behind from players who realized that if they stayed at the same income level that they were, regardless of all other factors, they would still be making a pretty effing good living playing a game which only certain centers of North America watch.

It's a niche sport, and Goodenow was demanding widespread-sport money. This isn't baseball, football, or European soccer. It's hockey, for chrissakes.

 

[Timmy]

I'm intrigued. Just what blame or criticism would you like to share with this community on Gary Bettman and management through two lockouts and one cancelled season?

He shouldn't have caved in '94.

 

[vcx*]

bettman is not a hockey man and degraded the league since his reign started
bettman is an idiot no he isnt he gets payed very well. i would love to lock him in a room with sean avery for a week and let him hear about what he does wrong. lol
GARY BETTMAN IS THE WORST THING TO HAPPEN TO THE NHL since they lost stars to the wha. i despise bettman

Think before you post.

Without Bettman, smallmarket teams (pretty much 4 out of 6 canadian teams) would be gone. Our Canucks probably would have been one of the teams gone. Bettman may not be 100% hockey, but he's doing good things with the cap and what not.

 

[GameFace247SON]

is this thread not locked? whoa mods, whoa

 

[Crazy_Ike]

He shouldn't have caved in '94.

In the same way Goodenow was stabbed from behind in the last lockout, Bettman had his hand forced by certain rich teams (Toronto, Detroit, among others) in the first lockout.

Goodenow was betting on this happening again, but Bettman had a far greater degree of control this time around. Toronto was the only one who tried to submarine the negotiations this time, and they failed when it became clear they had no support from other teams at all. This was kept somewhat hushed up, but it did leak out in a dribble.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I'm intrigued. Just what blame or criticism would you like to share with this community on Gary Bettman and management through two lockouts and one cancelled season?

You're not intrigued, and you're asking me a question which doesn't relate to what I said.

 

[kdb209]

He shouldn't have caved in '94.

He didn't cave in '94. In fact he was opposed to the deal, but was outvoted by the big market owners. That's why he got the supermajority clause put into his contract - if he opposed a deal, it required a 75% vote to approve - to prevent a repeat of '94.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

A friend of mine from Chicago said that when Bettman took office he was sent an honorary puck from someone else in the league office. Now, I was told that when he got the puck, he used it as a paperweight for a week until his secretary told him it was a hockey puck.

I for one... believe it.

Can anyone confirm that they also heard this story?

And also the word Gullible isn't in the dictionary.

 

[FlyerFan]

You're not intrigued, and you're asking me a question which doesn't relate to what I said.

If you can find NO fault with Bettman and management over the course of two lockouts and a cancelled season, then you're just one of the majority who can't (or won't) which was my arguement that you disputed.

 

[GSC2k2*]

And also the word Gullible isn't in the dictionary.

 

[GSC2k2*]

If you can find NO fault with Bettman and management over the course of two lockouts and a cancelled season, then you're just one of the majority who can't (or won't) which was my arguement that you disputed.

To be frank, I have always thought that the old saw "it's BOTH sides' fault" was never anything more than the standard blather of people speaking on a subject matter in respect of which they have neither the training or experience to provide thoughtful comment.

I would put in the same category the ridiculous and unhelpful comment "millionaires fighting against billionaires". Classic pap fed to the masses by the sports media in easy-to-digest and snappy soundbites that allow the reader/listener to "understand" without actually understanding. Said media, of course, have - with the exception of a few, kdb - the collective IQ of your average turnip and have no business reporting on business in the first place.

I would certainly lay some blame on the owners for their poor execution in the ,94 lockout endgame. Bettman had the players in a state such that it should have been easy for the owners to get what they needed at the time - an open net, in hockey terms - and they shot the puck wide. Bettman's role was that he probably should have put in place a supermajority like he did in the second lockout, but being new on the job, with a proportionately small political powerbase, I would not "fault" him for that. The CBA dictated the negotiating time, and he could not exactly forestall things.

Just for laughs, please share with us - beyond the blame that I assigned above to the '94 owners - where you assign blame to owners, and, since this has evolved into the topic of this thread, to Bettman himself.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

If you can find NO fault with Bettman and management

Thank you for confirming that you either can't, or won't, read what I actually wrote.

I said that I didn't place all of the blame on Goodenow.

That does not mean that I don't place any blame on Bettman or management. If I need to draw you a Venn diagram to explain all of this, I will.

If you want to continue this argument, you'll have to do it by yourself.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Thank you for confirming that you either can't, or won't, read what I actually wrote.

I said that I didn't place all of the blame on Goodenow.

That does not mean that I don't place any blame on Bettman or management. If I need to draw you a Venn diagram to explain all of this, I will.

If you want to continue this argument, you'll have to do it by yourself.

In the formula for Buhlmann credibility, are you implying that for FlyerFan, K is a *really* big number and N is 1?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

In the formula for Buhlmann credibility, are you implying that for FlyerFan, K is a *really* big number and N is 1?

Actually, the shame of it is that N can't be smaller than one in this case.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Actually, the shame of it is that N can't be smaller than one in this case.

But as K goes to infinity, does it really matter?