Calgary city council approves arena deal (UPD: new deal upcoming?)

[Roadrage]

Thank you.

Then I suggest that the deal that will be made will be similar to the deal offered by the city.

185 from City
185 user fees
185 Flames
Flames own arena, but pay a negotiated reduced amount is property tax

Not only will the Flames not want to own the arena, they will want a sweet deal to manage it for the city.

 

[Lunatik]

Not only will the Flames not want to own the arena, they will want a sweet deal to manage it for the city.

Which is what they currently have. Hard to blame them for wanting a similar lease to what the city has already given them in the past.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Have any cities and/or counties entered into continual funding agreements with a sports franchise?

I'd rather completely build a new arena with 100% taxpayer money ONCE....then all the methods that would be used to pay that back are instead used to grow a fund that will go to renovations and/or ultimately building a new venue.

I think the NHL should also be creating a fund, a percentage of certain revenues should go to an 'Arena Fund' that can be released by the league to assist in building new venues. Expansion fees would've been a really good start to a fund like that.....after Seattle they could have a $1B fund being managed and ultimately will be able to pump in considerable funds to new arena constructions almost entirely on interest.

But anyhoo.....a long term financial partnership I think would be a wise investment of tax dollars. Front the money once, then after that you're both in a partnership to generate revenues to build the next one 30 years later. I figure that means in 30 years the building gets paid for by funds generated over that time specifically for this purpose. Then, you do it again.

You're out he money once, after that the buildings literally pay for themselves (or the next generation of themselves anyway).

 

[Mightygoose]

City votes to approve a new event comitee with aim to 'kick start' talks again with CSEC

Calgary city council votes to restart arena conversation with Flames - 660 NEWS

Questions abound how interested are Flames will be to chat...or what the city will do to entice them back to the table.

 

[DJJones]

City votes to approve a new event comitee with aim to 'kick start' talks again with CSEC

Calgary city council votes to restart arena conversation with Flames - 660 NEWS

Questions abound how interested are Flames will be to chat...or what the city will do to entice them back to the table.

They've already made their offer. It'll take a few more years until the city agrees with it.

 

[Melrose Munch]

So is Houston still a threat or not?

 

[Mike Jones]

Looks like Flames' broadcaster Roger Millions is trying to become a candidate in the next provincial election here in Alberta. According to this morning's Calgary Herald he's trying to unseat the current MLA (I think it means Member of the Legislative Assembly) in Airdrie East (Who happens to be in the same party as Millions). It's a nice way for the Flames to get someone into government (The UCP are considered to be a decent bet to become the next government) for when they start making wider demands for arena funding.

I wonder if this means that another Flames' shill Eric Francis is going to be running for Parliament in the next federal election.

Link: Flames broadcaster Roger Millions challenging UCP incumbent for Airdrie nomination

 

[Melrose Munch]

THIS → Canadian taxpayers shouldn’t foot the bill for sports stadiums

This is a good read if you are against the arena.

 

[pucky]

Have any cities and/or counties entered into continual funding agreements with a sports franchise?

I'd rather completely build a new arena with 100% taxpayer money ONCE....then all the methods that would be used to pay that back are instead used to grow a fund that will go to renovations and/or ultimately building a new venue.

I think the NHL should also be creating a fund, a percentage of certain revenues should go to an 'Arena Fund' that can be released by the league to assist in building new venues. Expansion fees would've been a really good start to a fund like that.....after Seattle they could have a $1B fund being managed and ultimately will be able to pump in considerable funds to new arena constructions almost entirely on interest.

But anyhoo.....a long term financial partnership I think would be a wise investment of tax dollars. Front the money once, then after that you're both in a partnership to generate revenues to build the next one 30 years later. I figure that means in 30 years the building gets paid for by funds generated over that time specifically for this purpose. Then, you do it again.

You're out he money once, after that the buildings literally pay for themselves (or the next generation of themselves anyway).

No, you should pay 100% since you are rich. Tax payers shouldn't pay anything towards new multi-million dollar arenas. If fans want to donate towards the 'million dollar arena fund,' go ahead but private citizens shouldn't be forced to help billionaire owners build their new rinks.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Bettman comments are not edicts. Flames can stay in their arena indefinitely without fear. Nobody is going to build any arenas for a while.

 

[Mightygoose]

Flames agree to talk with committee, thawing arena stalemate - Sportsnet.ca

With a city decision of 'officailly' bidding for the 2026 games coming up later in the month....I guess it's the right time to start.... talking again.

But on the day before the BoG meeting tomorrow, I would say it's a significant step.

 

[Hoser]

Hahaha, here's the FULL letter Ken King sent to Coun. Jeff Davison, which the softball article from Sportsnet failed to present:

Dear Mr. Davison:

Thank you for your letter of May 31, 2018.

While we would never decline your formal request for a meeting, we do have some concerns based on past practice.

As a result, we would like to have a preliminary discussion to determine what may have changed in the City’s view to warrant our re-engaging.

Moreover, if we are to proceed, a simple and pre-emptive imperative is media silence. Public and/or media involvement must only be rendered in the event of an agreement.

In view of the foregoing, please advise how you would like to proceed.

Sincerely,


Ken M. King
President & CEO​

I'm continually amazed Ken King still has a job. You want public money you get "public involvement", bub. If you don't want "public involvement" feel free to build an arena on your own land with your own money.

 

[Lunatik]

Hahaha, here's the FULL letter Ken King sent to Coun. Jeff Davison, which the softball article from Sportsnet failed to present:

Dear Mr. Davison:

Thank you for your letter of May 31, 2018.

While we would never decline your formal request for a meeting, we do have some concerns based on past practice.

As a result, we would like to have a preliminary discussion to determine what may have changed in the City’s view to warrant our re-engaging.

Moreover, if we are to proceed, a simple and pre-emptive imperative is media silence. Public and/or media involvement must only be rendered in the event of an agreement.

In view of the foregoing, please advise how you would like to proceed.

Sincerely,


Ken M. King
President & CEO​

I'm continually amazed Ken King still has a job. You want public money you get "public involvement", bub. If you don't want "public involvement" feel free to build an arena on your own land with your own money.

Actually, them taking negotiations out of the media would be the best thing for both sides. Both sides have spent more time grandstanding and playing games in the media than actually negotiating anything.

 

[madhi19]

"Moreover, if we are to proceed, a simple and pre-emptive imperative is media silence. Public and/or media involvement must only be rendered in the event of an agreement."

God forbid we keep the people informed of our con job before we succeed in fleecing them. Start raising hell Calgary just ask Glendale where all these private deals lead.

 

[Lunatik]

"Moreover, if we are to proceed, a simple and pre-emptive imperative is media silence. Public and/or media involvement must only be rendered in the event of an agreement."

God forbid we keep the people informed of our con job before we succeed in fleecing them. Start raising hell Calgary just ask Glendale where all these private deals lead.

As I pointed out above, this is needed in Calgary, all it's been is both sides acting like clowns and trying to make the other side look bad. Taking that garbage out of it might actually lead to something constructive.

 

[TheLegend]

"Moreover, if we are to proceed, a simple and pre-emptive imperative is media silence. Public and/or media involvement must only be rendered in the event of an agreement."

God forbid we keep the people informed of our con job before we succeed in fleecing them. Start raising hell Calgary just ask Glendale where all these private deals lead.

There were never any "private deals" in Glendale. Every deal or contract that Glendale votes on must be made public at least 72 hours prior to a vote. It's the state law. But if you know of some please point them out.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

It's not the price of building the arena, it the continuing maintenance cost of the building afterwards that's the fight between private investors and governments.
The Skydome in Toronto cost 700m to build, but was sold later for 87m to Rogers largely because the city didn't want to spend the losing money in maintaining the facility.
The Markham arena and NHL team never got off the ground because the potential NHL. owners wanted the city to have make of any shortfalls in managing the arena.
Unless the Calgary arena can have about 225 days of paying events (I don't know the exact figure) as a break even point just for building maintenance, it's going to be fight on what group, private or public pays the shortfall.

 

[MNNumbers]

There were never any "private deals" in Glendale. Every deal or contract that Glendale votes on must be made public at least 72 hours prior to a vote. It's the state law. But if you know of some please point them out.

Very true, Legend, and thanks for pointing this out. The problem for Glendale was that the council members weren't listening to the city financial manager, who was hesitant to say the least.

In Calgary, I think that, while some quietness is necessary in order to negotiate a potential deal, there also needs to be some clear transparency about what, exactly, is in the deal, and who will be responsible for what, BEFORE it's ever voted on. The people need a chance to voice their opinions, one way or another.

 

[Hoser]

Actually, them taking negotiations out of the media would be the best thing for both sides. Both sides have spent more time grandstanding and playing games in the media than actually negotiating anything.

It would be a better thing for one side. And it was that side that began the grandstanding and game-playing. The same side that is now insistent that negotiations be secret.

 

[gstommylee]

I don't blame him for wanting media silence. Deals are done behind closed doors not in front of the media.

 

[Hoser]

If he wanted media silence why'd he fire the first salvo when he presented that utterly hopeless CalgaryNEXT proposal to the media? He's the one who began this whole fiasco.

 

[Lunatik]

It would be a better thing for one side. And it was that side that began the grandstanding and game-playing. The same side that is now insistent that negotiations be secret.

Nenshi was grandstanding before the Flames ever proposed Calgary Next, don't kid yourself dude, it's been both sides acting like petulant children

 

[Hoser]

Nenshi was grandstanding before the Flames ever proposed Calgary Next, don't kid yourself dude, it's been both sides acting like petulant children

Nooooooo, that's not how the sequence of events went. CSEC made cryptic remarks about a "grand vision", and it was DOA when they presented it in 2015. Later it came out that Nenshi's team suspected all along that they'd suggest building on the Canada Creosote lands, which they rightly predicted would not stand up to an actual sound financial analysis. The City (not the mayor and his staff) did the analysis, and told them in no uncertain terms that CalgaryNEXT was DOA and never happening.

Nenshi didn't start grandstanding until he presented his own analysis that building in Victoria Park was far and away the best solution, as long as who paid for what was sorted out, at the start of his re-election campaign.

Anyway, whatever you and I happen to believe, someone asked Nenshi about this idea that an agreement has to be negotiated in secret:

Nenshi finds Ken King’s public letter urging private arena negotiations 'fascinating'

“I did find it interesting that my colleague released a letter publicly that said, ‘we want no public disclosure on this,’ ” Nenshi told reporters during an unrelated announcement marking the five-year flood anniversary.

“The whole thing is kind of fascinating. But as I’ve said to members of that council committee — and I do sit on that committee but I’m not going to take a leadership role on it — fill your boots.

“If there is an opportunity to start a new discussion and have a new conversation, great. Let’s do it.”

[...]

Nenshi also said Wednesday that he believes Calgarians agree with him that any future arena deal involving public dollars “must have public benefit.”

The mayor added that he doesn’t want the city to entertain a return to the Flames’ CalgaryNEXT proposal at a site in the West Village — a plan the city suggested could cost double the Flames’ original estimate.

“It’s going to take a lot to convince me that there’s a location better than the location in Victoria Park. I’m happy to have the discussion, I’m not happy to re-litigate (the) $1.8-billion project in West Village.

“I’m happy to look at other ideas but, for me, that analysis has been done and Victoria Park is the best.”​

LOL, I love it. Ken King wants to know why CSEC ought to come back to the table, but likewise Calgarians want to know why they ought to come back to that same table if CSEC isn't willing to compromise.

 

[IceColdBear]

I know the bible says judge not lest ye be judged, but this Gary Bettman character seems like a real jerk.

 

[GuelphStormer]

I'm continually amazed Ken King still has a job. You want public money you get "public involvement", bub. If you don't want "public involvement" feel free to build an arena on your own land with your own money.

thanks for the letter ... this is funny. he might as well have just demanded the City's ATM PIN# so he could slither over with Bettman at 2am one night and withdraw a few hundred million dollars.