Bettman: leader or loser?

[YellHockey*]

If the NHL is in the dire straits that Bettman claims it is, should he be the one trying to fix the problems?

He's had over ten years at the NHL and it is in no better shape then it was when he took over. Scoring is way down. The trap is more widely known then most of the players. The owners have lost billions according to Bettman. Bettman doesn't have a billion dollar US network tv deal. The referees can't seem to figure out whether or not to use the rulebook to call penalties.

As well, Bettman agreed to the previous CBA and extended it twice. If the problems of the NHL are because of the CBA, shouldn't Bettman be fired because he is responsible for the CBA?

And here is some anecdotal information from Piston, the person who audited the books of the LA Kings, about Bettman and his method of doing business.

Gary Bettman might think that Ted Saskin is personally attacking him when Saskin believes that Bettman isn't the right man for the job. But it is pretty clear after over a decade that Bettman isn't the right man for the job.

Click to read more...

 

[SENSible1*]

Credibility?

Why would anyone expect a rational individual to believe someone who can post the following statement?

From the link provided:
The Kings eventually took a large fine over this despite not breaking a single rule (well they did break the unwritten "thou shalt not hurt the Commissioner's ego" statute).

Does this individual seriously believe that the owner of the Kings turned over a "large fine" to his subordinate without even haven broken a single rule?

The entire rant is pure and unadulterated crap.

 

[MrMackey]

If the NHL is in the dire straits that Bettman claims it is, should he be the one trying to fix the problems?

He's had over ten years at the NHL and it is in no better shape then it was when he took over. Scoring is way down. The trap is more widely known then most of the players. The owners have lost billions according to Bettman. Bettman doesn't have a billion dollar US network tv deal. The referees can't seem to figure out whether or not to use the rulebook to call penalties.

As well, Bettman agreed to the previous CBA and extended it twice. If the problems of the NHL are because of the CBA, shouldn't Bettman be fired because he is responsible for the CBA?

And here is some anecdotal information from Piston, the person who audited the books of the LA Kings, about Bettman and his method of doing business.

Gary Bettman might think that Ted Saskin is personally attacking him when Saskin believes that Bettman isn't the right man for the job. But it is pretty clear after over a decade that Bettman isn't the right man for the job.

I think he's the wrong man for the job.

But I thought you were pro-PA. If Gary Bettman screwed up the NHL with setting the current economic conditions, then why argue on the side of the players, who have said that they're happy with the current agreement?

I think Bettman screwed over the game and made the wrong deal last time. I think the owners are behind much of this new lockout, but I would certainly prefer someone other than Bettman representing them... who I think will get them the wrong deal again and cave to pressure from the PA.

I'm puzzled why the players think Bettman's so bad after he basically bent over for them in '94.

 

[Puck]

Personally, Bettman reminds me of George Costanza in Seinfeld. He just does for some reason.

I think a lot of people misinterpret the Commissioner's job description as hockey's UN Secretary General, a powerful man who objectively represents the sport in North America. Actually, he's hired by the NHL owners as CEO of their corporate federation to defend their interests. Personally I don't care what he's like or what he does in the bedroom. You'll have to ask the owners if they think he's doing a good job defending their interests. I'm not privy to insider NHL politics, so I have no idea if he caters to a small clique of powerful owners or he democratically represents the majority. I have no idea what his management style is like. It is only my opinion, but he reminds me of George Costanza. And that's not a good thing necessarily. I don't think he is a leader or loser. I think he just 'is'. He's what the owners want or he'd be gone. In the meantime, he has a good gig making lotsa money.

 

[thinkwild]

And here is some anecdotal information from Piston, the person who audited the books of the LA Kings, about Bettman and his method of doing business.

Id never been to their message board before. Some good comments. If I remember right, Piston, the fan who was allowed to go over the LA Kings books as you said, so would have credibility, came to the conclusion that the problems were revenue disparities and the solution had to be contraction. Seems a valid solution, i still prefer the term folding or relocating as any failing restaurant would. Even if Gary gets his way, there will be teams that follow the NFL model of moving cities.

If Gary Bettman screwed up the NHL with setting the current economic conditions, then why argue on the side of the players, who have said that they're happy with the current agreement?

Heh, touché again. But. Bettman was once happy with the current agreement too. He would flash all these stats about how spending doesnt help you win, and that any owner losing money its their own fault. He would sell the NHL as the best buy in sports. And many bought. Then, because of the Sakic offersheet, he said the NHL lost control. But that problem is already stopped, and the results returning to normal.

I think the philisophical underpinnings of the expired CBA that Bettman and Goodenow negotiated were brilliant for an NHL model. Only because I've heard and know no better though. If it didnt work, and there are problems pending for my Sens without changes I would think, then specify the problems and fix it. But to suggest a cap, when we know the history of what that implies, is just unforgiveable to me.

Im not enraged with bettman for what he has done, i dont even blame him for expansion, I think at the time thats what all owners, players, and fans, and me, wanted. It had to be done to stop 16 of 21 teams making the playoffs rendering the regular season meaningless and the prevailing joke.

Im enraged with Bettman for lying about that now, and purposefully selling the league short with lies singulary designed to win a labour battle in a very sneaky, extortionist way. When he himself has shown its not necessary. Its must be Jacobs and the hardliners driving this.

THis idea of 30 equal teams, while it sounds like a noble cause, I think is anathema to Pro sports. As long as there is equality of opportunity to develop, thats whats fair. Not forcwed talent equality through artificial financial rules that bear no relation to the cycle of proper team building that leads to such great success in the NHL model.

 

[thinkwild]

Personal attacks against Bettman do not further the process and arent wise. Doesnt mean i can stop myself from letting them slip anyway.

But calling him a liar isnt a personal attack. That is demonstrable.

 

[YellHockey*]

But I thought you were pro-PA. If Gary Bettman screwed up the NHL with setting the current economic conditions, then why argue on the side of the players, who have said that they're happy with the current agreement?

The key word there is "if".

If the CBA is to blame for the problems then Bettman is responsible for ten years of that CBA and should be held accountable (i.e. fired).

But if the CBA isn't to blame, then why is there a lockout? If Bettman imposed a lockout to solve something that wasn't the problem, then he should be fired for that.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Hes not trying to "SOLVE" anything..hes just locking the players out until they agree to his demands. Woah my 12 year brother pulls something like that. Except he will just hide my keys until I agree to drive him to his friends. Cept ill just give him a little ass kickin till he gets them..something the NHLPA cannot do.

 

[eye]

He may not win a popularity contest with the players but is proving to be the answer to Goodenow. It may have taken him years to learn what the league was all about but it appears he has the solutions in mind for all the problems the league faces. He is a Leader in the truest meaning of the word. Leaders take tough stands for the right reasons and are willing to withstand the rhetoric from the oppostion and that includes the poster that started this thread topic. The NHLPA are starting to crack under pressure. First Saskin and his desperate rhetoric and now todays announcement which should serve to restart what will hopefully be effective negotiations.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Gary Bettman might think that Ted Saskin is personally attacking him when Saskin believes that Bettman isn't the right man for the job. But it is pretty clear after over a decade that Bettman isn't the right man for the job.

Weird isn't it?
For the better part of a decade, people have been ripping Bettman for killing the sport.
Now he's a hero.

He's a leader. He's led the league into losing the season and what little support the league had south of the border.

I wanted him fired before the CBA. And I want him out now.

Regardless of what happens with the CBA.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

The key word there is "if".

If the CBA is to blame for the problems then Bettman is responsible for ten years of that CBA and should be held accountable (i.e. fired).

But if the CBA isn't to blame, then why is there a lockout? If Bettman imposed a lockout to solve something that wasn't the problem, then he should be fired for that.

Either way, he's failed.
Miserably.

 

[K215215]

THis idea of 30 equal teams, while it sounds like a noble cause, I think is anathema to Pro sports. As long as there is equality of opportunity to develop, thats whats fair. Not forcwed talent equality through artificial financial rules that bear no relation to the cycle of proper team building that leads to such great success in the NHL model.

This is a very intelligent assessment regarding this entire mess. i completely agree

 

[dawgbone]

It's actually astonishing the level of stupidity that can be seen here:

a). It really doesn't matter what you think of Bettman, it matters what the owners think. The owners were the ones in the last lockout to cave and not push for a cap (which Bettman was negotiating for). They seem to think he's doing a pretty good job, and I get that from the fact that he hasn't been fired yet.

b). You can blame everything on Bettman, but the fact of the matter is, he doesn't make decisions alone. The fact of the matter is, he doesn't make any decisions on his own. Blaming the current state of the game on Bettman is a lazy person's excuse... the fact of the matter is, there is a rule committee that's made up of GM's, who come up with rules, not Gary Bettman.

c). The failed expansion. Again, the ignorance is shining through here. When Bettman was hired, it was to get salary controls in place, and a National television deal. The only way you can get a national television deal is if you cover the major markets. The TV deal with NBC is still better than the one they league had 10+ years ago.

So please, kindly remove your cranial cavities from your anal ones. Bettman is essentially a mouth-piece for the owners. They tell him what they want, and he implements it, or negotiates it, or whatever. At any point in time, the owners can change their mind, which means Gary Bettman has to change his focus. Bettman is talking Cap because the owners want a Cap. If the owners say forget it, get us a luxury tax, he will get them a luxury tax.

Just like 10 years ago, when the owners asked for a cap, but changed their mind and instead asked for stronger salary controls (which they got). That is not Bettman's fault, that is the owner's fault.

The Extended CBA was not a choice by Bettman, but of the owners.

You can sit here and cry about CEO's of company's being fired because they were the ones in the spotlight... well guess what, they are completely unrelated. It's a terrible example brought up by simpletons who are too busy bone smuggling the NHLPA kool-aid.

Gary Bettman is fighting for a cap because that is what the owners said they wanted. Until the NHLPA is willing to recognize that, there really is nothing to talk about.

Move away from the cap? Fine, yell at your teams owner if you don't want one, not at Bettman. Bettman is not in charge, he is simply the mouthpiece for the group of owners who have told him what they want.

His job is to go out and do what they want, and that's why he's doing a good job, and thats' why he still has a job.

 

[SENSible1*]

It's actually astonishing the level of stupidity that can be seen here:

a). It really doesn't matter what you think of Bettman, it matters what the owners think. The owners were the ones in the last lockout to cave and not push for a cap (which Bettman was negotiating for). They seem to think he's doing a pretty good job, and I get that from the fact that he hasn't been fired yet.

b). You can blame everything on Bettman, but the fact of the matter is, he doesn't make decisions alone. The fact of the matter is, he doesn't make any decisions on his own. Blaming the current state of the game on Bettman is a lazy person's excuse... the fact of the matter is, there is a rule committee that's made up of GM's, who come up with rules, not Gary Bettman.

c). The failed expansion. Again, the ignorance is shining through here. When Bettman was hired, it was to get salary controls in place, and a National television deal. The only way you can get a national television deal is if you cover the major markets. The TV deal with NBC is still better than the one they league had 10+ years ago.

So please, kindly remove your cranial cavities from your anal ones. Bettman is essentially a mouth-piece for the owners. They tell him what they want, and he implements it, or negotiates it, or whatever. At any point in time, the owners can change their mind, which means Gary Bettman has to change his focus. Bettman is talking Cap because the owners want a Cap. If the owners say forget it, get us a luxury tax, he will get them a luxury tax.

Just like 10 years ago, when the owners asked for a cap, but changed their mind and instead asked for stronger salary controls (which they got). That is not Bettman's fault, that is the owner's fault.

The Extended CBA was not a choice by Bettman, but of the owners.

You can sit here and cry about CEO's of company's being fired because they were the ones in the spotlight... well guess what, they are completely unrelated. It's a terrible example brought up by simpletons who are too busy bone smuggling the NHLPA kool-aid.

Gary Bettman is fighting for a cap because that is what the owners said they wanted. Until the NHLPA is willing to recognize that, there really is nothing to talk about.

Move away from the cap? Fine, yell at your teams owner if you don't want one, not at Bettman. Bettman is not in charge, he is simply the mouthpiece for the group of owners who have told him what they want.

His job is to go out and do what they want, and that's why he's doing a good job, and thats' why he still has a job.

 

[Tom_Benjamin]

It's actually astonishing the level of stupidity that can be seen here:

No kidding. A bunch of ignorant sheeple in my opinion. Ask anyone whether they think for themselves and everyone says "yes". Then ask the typical hockey fan what they think of the lockout and out spews NHL talking points that have been repeated ad nauseum by a media that is owned by the owners.

a). It really doesn't matter what you think of Bettman, it matters what the owners think. The owners were the ones in the last lockout to cave and not push for a cap (which Bettman was negotiating for). They seem to think he's doing a pretty good job, and I get that from the fact that he hasn't been fired yet.

This is true. The question is "Why do they think he is doing a good job?" Either the NHL is not is a terrible state or they are pretty stupid to think he has done well. It is a fundamental contradiction.

I think Bettman is a little wuss who would not have the courage to get on the ice in my Friday night beer league. What do you think of him? This post explained the obvious. The owners want a sleazebag to run the league. The question is "Why do you want a sleazebag to run the league?"

b). You can blame everything on Bettman, but the fact of the matter is, he doesn't make decisions alone. The fact of the matter is, he doesn't make any decisions on his own. Blaming the current state of the game on Bettman is a lazy person's excuse... the fact of the matter is, there is a rule committee that's made up of GM's, who come up with rules, not Gary Bettman.

His office is in charge of the officiating and he is the guy who decides whether there is a rules committee. He doesn't make any decisions for the millions he is paid every year? Why does he get paid twice what the average player gets, if not to make decisions?

c). The failed expansion. Again, the ignorance is shining through here. When Bettman was hired, it was to get salary controls in place, and a National television deal. The only way you can get a national television deal is if you cover the major markets. The TV deal with NBC is still better than the one they league had 10+ years ago.

Nashville, Minnesota and Columbus are big TV markets? He did not get a good TV deal. He did not get salary controls in the last CBA.

What good thing has he done? He's managed to increase the cost of being a fan by about four times. The owners love him for that. Franchise values have increased steadily. The owners love him for that.

The question is "Why do you love him?"

Tom

 

[dawgbone]

Weird isn't it?
For the better part of a decade, people have been ripping Bettman for killing the sport.
Now he's a hero.

He's a leader. He's led the league into losing the season and what little support the league had south of the border.

I wanted him fired before the CBA. And I want him out now.

Regardless of what happens with the CBA.

Do you really write for HF?

That's astonishing. I'd figure they'd want people who had a clue about what they were talking about.

Silly me.

He hasn't lead the league into anything. He is doing what the owners want, he's just the one in the spotlight.

Unless you are an idiot, I don't see how anyone is stupid enough to beleive Gary Bettman is killing hockey.

I'm sorry, I'll probably get banned, but someone has to slap some sense into you people.

"OH, hockey's boring"

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where Bettman told everyone to start the obstruction crap. Yeah, they've failed to get rid of it, and why?

Here's an idea... the same people who cry about obstruction (layers, gm's and fans), are the same people who whine and moan when there are 14 powerplays for each team in the game. Oh, so you don't want the hooking, but when we call it, you hate all the powerplays...

That is Bettman's fault? Explain that.

"TV ratings in the States suck"

Duh... the game sucks... what do you expect? But let's not blame the players (who actually play the game, and do the hooking), let's blame the commissioner, the guy who does what the owners want.

"Expansion is watering down the league"

The owners wanted a national TV deal... the only way to do that was to get a national league.

It's not complicated, Bettman does what the owners want, and that's his job... it's absolutely sickening to listen to the PA and some of the whiners on here complaining that it's all his fault, when common sense should tell you he is not the one making the decisions.

I guess some people just like to blame the first person they see...

 

[dawgbone]

This is true. The question is "Why do they think he is doing a good job?" Either the NHL is not is a terrible state or they are pretty stupid to think he has done well. It is a fundamental contradiction.

Or the owners realize that they were the ones who messed up. The fact that he is still employed shows that he's done as well as possible with what they've asked from him.

I think Bettman is a little wuss who would not have the courage to get on the ice in my Friday night beer league. What do you think of him? This post explained the obvious. The owners want a sleazebag to run the league. The question is "Why do you want a sleazebag to run the league?"

Funny, insulting someone's courage on a message board... that's awfully big of you Tom. Explain to me how Bettman is a sleazebag, citing specific examples. The owners don't want a sleazebag to run the league, they want someone who will negotiate what they want.... just like the players want someone to negotiate what they want. Bettman is no more of a sleazebag than Goodenow.

His office is in charge of the officiating and he is the guy who decides whether there is a rules committee. He doesn't make any decisions for the millions he is paid every year? Why does he get paid twice what the average player gets, if not to make decisions?

The man has never played a game of hockey in his life. What on ice decisions could he possibly make on his own? Hockey's in trouble, so he gets the guys who know the game together to suggest changes. If it doesn't work, is that Bettman's fault?

Sure, if you want to see it that way... it's not very smart, but to each his own.

Nashville, Minnesota and Columbus are big TV markets? He did not get a good TV deal. He did not get salary controls in the last CBA.

Minnesota and Nashville certainly are, Columbus not so much. And Tom, he did get a good TV deal. The crap that we call NHL hockey ruined it, not Bettman. The $160 mil TV deal was a positive step in the right direction... unfortuately the garbage on the ice (where the players play), is responsible for it.

And Tom, for someone who likes to talk a hell of a lot, you sure don't offer much in terms of insight. He didn't get salary controls? The owners wouldn't continue their fight for a Cap in 94 because of recent expansion. So Bettman gets them an agreement (that they apporved), with the highest UFA age of any league. He also gave them full control and walkaway rights on almost every contract. Had the owners actually used any of it, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today. 1999 the owners wanted to extend the agreement becasue of new arenas coming in place.

What good thing has he done? He's managed to increase the cost of being a fan by about four times. The owners love him for that. Franchise values have increased steadily. The owners love him for that.

The question is "Why do you love him?"

I don't love him. But I don't think he is the evil spawn of Satan some people think he is. He is just doing the job he was asked and paid to do. Yeah, the cost for the fan has increased 4 times, but so have player salaries... interesting how that works right?

The owners want and need a method to control their spending. If they didn't, we wouldn't have this lockout. The players refuse to accept the fact that the owners want to have cost-certainty. They refuse to accept the fact that the owners want to make money after losing money for the past few years. To me, the players are at fault.