Bettman comments @ ASG 2011

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Potrzebie

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Mar 25, 2010
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Err, technically J93, that isnt exactly a Porker. Lets revisit that oft quoted moment that lives in infamy;

"Things in Phoenix are fine".

Indeed they were from Garys' perspective; Reinsdorf had been working for months with City Manager Beasley & Attorney Tindall to craft a deal & were about to make an offer to Moyes before he went Rogue & bought into The Rodier Plan.:naughty:

"Any Reports to the contrary are irresponsible reporting".

Absolutely. GB was confident at the time that all was in-hand and under control. Why chase a story that didnt exist?. :)

So. If we consider the contemporaneous context of that time, not so infamous, no more Porky. ;)

Don't forget too, when Bettman was claiming things in Phoenix were "fine" the league had already advanced revenue sharing to the team so they could make payroll, and had the owner all but drop the keys on the table and walk away. Hence his insistence that the team was not Moyes' to put into bankruptcy as the league was basically in charge (or "had the proxy" as Bettman referred to it as). I think Mssr. Bettman had a feeling things were pretty &^&%^% far from "fine".
 
Nov 13, 2006
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One thing that many posters seem to miss is that the commissioner is not a publicly elected official. The position is not one of public trust. He doesn't owe an explanation of anything to the public.

The commissioner serves at the pleasure of the ownership of the 30 individual teams. The very idea that anyone believes it's their right to ask him "tough" or "easy" questions is laughable. There is one group that can ask tough questions and expect any answers, the owners.

Please show the last time the commissioners of the NFL, NBA or MLB felt the need to be "held accountable" by any TV Network.
 

cbcwpg

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May 18, 2010
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Between the Pipes
"Another" lie insinuates that there was a first one, which there hasn't been.

So what do you call it when Bettman is asked on national TV if the NHL ever has been paying the bills for the Coyotes and he responds with a firm "NO", yet later it was proven that the NHL had been paying the bills for months.
 

Fugu

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One thing that many posters seem to miss is that the commissioner is not a publicly elected official. The position is not one of public trust. He doesn't owe an explanation of anything to the public.

The commissioner serves at the pleasure of the ownership of the 30 individual teams. The very idea that anyone believes it's their right to ask him "tough" or "easy" questions is laughable. There is one group that can ask tough questions and expect any answers, the owners.

Please show the last time the commissioners of the NFL, NBA or MLB felt the need to be "held accountable" by any TV Network.

Except that part about customer relations. It's the entertainment industry, and he is the figure head for the NHL. No other person can speak on behalf of the league or the 30 owners. He's the first guy that paying customers (networks, ticket buyers, sponsors) look to regarding "their" relationship with a 'company' that produces a product they buy. Fans may be interacting with the team owner in this sense, at the local level, but we realize that many constraints and policies are above the individual owner. The guy who speaks for the collective is Bettman.
 

Fugu

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So what do you call it when Bettman is asked on national TV if the NHL ever has been paying the bills for the Coyotes and he responds with a firm "NO", yet later it was proven that the NHL had been paying the bills for months.


Technically those were advances of money the Coyotes would get anyway.

You have to word the questions properly. When dealing with these guys, I think of mercury. It's a nice solid-appearing sphere of silver-ish hue. If you try to pin it down, it just breaks apart into smaller spheres and scatters. Gather it all back up and you get your original sphere, as if nothing ever happened.
 
Nov 13, 2006
11,525
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Except that part about customer relations. It's the entertainment industry, and he is the figure head for the NHL. No other person can speak on behalf of the league or the 30 owners. He's the first guy that paying customers (networks, ticket buyers, sponsors) look to regarding "their" relationship with a 'company' that produces a product they buy. Fans may be interacting with the team owner in this sense, at the local level, but we realize that many constraints and policies are above the individual owner. The guy who speaks for the collective is Bettman.

So this lack of public access to the commissioner must really be killing the NBA, the NFL and MLB?

The TV Networks and the major sponsors certainly can get access to the appropriate parties.
 

CC Chiefs*

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Technically those were advances of money the Coyotes would get anyway.

You have to word the questions properly. When dealing with these guys, I think of mercury. It's a nice solid-appearing sphere of silver-ish hue. If you try to pin it down, it just breaks apart into smaller spheres and scatters. Gather it all back up and you get your original sphere, as if nothing ever happened.

Teflon man! Yes he got a cap place. But he still doesn't have a major TV contract but he does have his super majority so he can push his agenda.
 
Nov 13, 2006
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Teflon man! Yes he got a cap place. But he still doesn't have a major TV contract but he does have his super majority so he can push his agenda.

As Tom Petty said: "You believe what you wanna believe."

The only way to get a MAJOR TV contract is to eliminate local ownership of media rights, like the NFL does.
 

kdb209

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Jan 26, 2005
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The only way to get a MAJOR TV contract is to eliminate local ownership of media rights, like the NFL does.

I guess you don't consider the NBA's $930M/yr deal from ABC/ESPN/TNT as "a MAJOR TV contract" - or MLB's ~$650M/yr in deals with FOX/ESPN/TBS.
 
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Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Hmmm... but do you think he knew then that Reinsdorf's conditions for acquiring the Coyotes included about $168 million in direct subsidies over a 5 year period, or else "sayonara"? In that case, perhaps Mr. B was a bit naive in his confidence about Reinsdorf's level of interest and the feasibility of his plan to purchase the team.

Jerry "The Legend" Reinsdorf had it all in hand Whileee. Nothing to see in Phoenix. Move along...

Don't forget too, when Bettman was claiming things in Phoenix were "fine" the league had already advanced revenue sharing to the team so they could make payroll, and had the owner all but drop the keys on the table and walk away. Hence his insistence that the team was not Moyes' to put into bankruptcy as the league was basically in charge (or "had the proxy" as Bettman referred to it as). I think Mssr. Bettman had a feeling things were pretty &^&%^% far from "fine".

Yepp. And I do believe Mr. Moyes will be paying for his transgressions to the tune of $60M+ on top of his already gargantuan losses in Phoenix. I wouldnt feel sorry for the guy though, why, just 2 weeks ago he made himself a hefty $600M+ on a Swift stock-play, and is still up to his old tricks; wonky lease buy-out's akin to odometer rollbacks at the dealerships in the dead of night. :naughty:

Technically those were.... You have to word the questions properly. When dealing with these guys, I think of mercury. It's a nice solid-appearing sphere of silver-ish hue. If you try to pin it down, it just breaks apart into smaller spheres and scatters. Gather it all back up and you get your original sphere, as if nothing ever happened.

Exactly, technically...As for the rest, I agree. I've been telling people for years we should declare Mercury a hostile planet. But y'know what?. , Sometimes I wish those space guys would come & conquer the earth and make people their pets. I'd kinda like one of those little beds with my name on it. :yashin:
 

Crazy_Ike

Cookin' with fire.
Mar 29, 2005
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Hmmm... but do you think he knew then that Reinsdorf's conditions for acquiring the Coyotes included about $168 million in direct subsidies over a 5 year period, or else "sayonara"? In that case, perhaps Mr. B was a bit naive in his confidence about Reinsdorf's level of interest and the feasibility of his plan to purchase the team.

Reinsdorf's conditions before the illegal attempt to endrun the league through bankruptcy were not the same as the conditions after this had happened and the situation became much, much different. You appear to believe the deal was the same before and after.

Killion said:
So. If we consider the contemporaneous context of that time, not so infamous, no more Porky.

Thank you for answering a post that I don't see, and excellent job of doing so, easily obliterating the "argument" that Bettman lied about Phoenix. It is clear that he did not, but I hate to be the one to tell you that demonstrating it does not and will never stop his haters from continuing on like he did.

Fourier said:
Do you really believe the NHL and Bettman to be incapable of ever making a mistake?

For 7m a year you don't make mistakes, you take calculated risks. A calculated risk that doesn't work out is not a mistake. Some risks AREN'T going to work out. That's life. Are you moving things forward despite the risk setbacks? Yes? Then you're doing what you're supposed to do.

You want to run a big business without risks? You won't HAVE a big business for long. Fortune favors the brave.

Fugu said:
Technically those were advances of money the Coyotes would get anyway.

You have to word the questions properly. When dealing with these guys, I think of mercury. It's a nice solid-appearing sphere of silver-ish hue. If you try to pin it down, it just breaks apart into smaller spheres and scatters. Gather it all back up and you get your original sphere, as if nothing ever happened.

Or maybe you HAVE to deal with the simpletons in the sports media that way because they have nowhere near the required knowledge to understand the differences and will therefore either bungle the job of reporting them or attempt to twist them to their preferred slant.

Either way, it wasn't a lie. The Coyotes situation was in hand until Moyes and Balsillie decided to try to illegally sell and move the team. They were slapped down but the current mess is a direct result of the damage the two of them caused.

Except that part about customer relations. It's the entertainment industry, and he is the figure head for the NHL. No other person can speak on behalf of the league or the 30 owners. He's the first guy that paying customers (networks, ticket buyers, sponsors) look to regarding "their" relationship with a 'company' that produces a product they buy. Fans may be interacting with the team owner in this sense, at the local level, but we realize that many constraints and policies are above the individual owner. The guy who speaks for the collective is Bettman.

And Bettman DOES speak to the public in that role.

Just not this weekend to Ron MacLean.

Perhaps it would be more productive to look less at Bettman not giving the interview, and more at MacLean for being twofaced in his dealings with the league vs the interview with the NHLPA. I suspect he got the message loud and clear: it is not the media's job to take sides. If Ron MacLean wants to be the Fox News of the NHL, then the NHL isn't going to stop him... but it isn't going to give him any direct access in that case either.
 

CC Chiefs*

Guest
Who knows why they wanna lay there & revel in their abandon
See ya dont.... haf......, ta live like a Refugee :laugh:

Not forgetting another Tom Petty song.

Change of Heart:

"You pushed just a little too far
Made it just a little too hard
There's been a change of heart"
 

bosshogg18

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Oct 26, 2009
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Has anyone ever asked Bettman why he tries so much harder to keep Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. in their current markets today, while teams such as Hartford, Quebec, Winnipeg, and Minnesota left town without a fight? I know the Canadian dollar was a lot weaker in the mid 90's, but what about the U.S. teams that moved? If it has been answered, I have never seen it. Can anyone respond to this?
 

CC Chiefs*

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Has anyone ever asked Bettman why he tries so much harder to keep Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. in their current markets today, while teams such as Hartford, Quebec, Winnipeg, and Minnesota left town without a fight? I know the Canadian dollar was a lot weaker in the mid 90's, but what about the U.S. teams that moved? If it has been answered, I have never seen it. Can anyone respond to this?

Great question that will never be answered. The new fans of those teams are like this "I got mine and don't care about yours".
 
Nov 13, 2006
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I guess you don't consider the NBA's $930M/yr deal from ABC/ESPN/TNT as "a MAJOR TV contract" - or MLB's ~$650M/yr in deals with FOX/ESPN/TBS.

In the NHL's case yes, those would be major, but in MLB's case, that's hardly a major contract when compared to the value of local rights fees.

The NHL has different issues than MLB and the NBA.

Has anyone ever asked Bettman why he tries so much harder to keep Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. in their current markets today, while teams such as Hartford, Quebec, Winnipeg, and Minnesota left town without a fight? I know the Canadian dollar was a lot weaker in the mid 90's, but what about the U.S. teams that moved? If it has been answered, I have never seen it. Can anyone respond to this?


I believe there are several reasons:

1. It's fifteen years later. They have changed their view of things. One of the hallmarks of growth is learning to change as needed.

2. Facilities are not a problem in Atlanta and Phoenix. They were a problem in Hartford, Winnipeg and Quebec City.

3. In the case of Minnesota and Atlanta, the expansion teams were replacements for teams that left. Perhaps the League will do the same if proper facilities exist. Clearly, there are plans to put an available team in Winnipeg.

Do QC and Hartford have acceptable facilities today?
 
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Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Teflon man! Yes he got a cap place. But he still doesn't have a major TV contract but he does have his super majority so he can push his agenda.

That could well change with the consolidation of media interests. Im not suggesting NFL, MLB, NBA numbers, nor a panacea to the struggling franchises, a parting of the waters, but cerainly a substantial increase. Remember, his 3 main priorities when he was hired were to oversee the existing plans for expansion; bring in cost certainty; secure a major TV contract in the US. The relo's were extremely unfortunate events that occurred early in his tenure. I chalk it up to inexperience, underestimations, mistakes & market conditions; quick fixes instead of long-term proactive solutions. By their own admissions of late, it seems they too are familiar with that Tom Petty refrain CC. :)

Thank you for answering a post that I don't see, and excellent job of doing so, easily obliterating the "argument" that Bettman lied about Phoenix. It is clear that he did not, but I hate to be the one to tell you that demonstrating it does not and will never stop his haters from continuing on like he did.

No need to "thank" me Crazy_Ike. Your not alone on Planet Sanity. And you've got "15 minutes to deposit a retraction accusing me of naivete' Mister!". :naughty:
 

jessebelanger

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Feb 18, 2009
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Great question that will never be answered. The new fans of those teams are like this "I got mine and don't care about yours".

That particular question has actually been answered for you on these very boards many, many times CC chiefs. You simply choose to ignore the responses you've been given.
 

jessebelanger

Registered User
Feb 18, 2009
2,361
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Has anyone ever asked Bettman why he tries so much harder to keep Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. in their current markets today, while teams such as Hartford, Quebec, Winnipeg, and Minnesota left town without a fight? I know the Canadian dollar was a lot weaker in the mid 90's, but what about the U.S. teams that moved? If it has been answered, I have never seen it. Can anyone respond to this?

bosshog it is important to note that we often judge the winn/que/hart situations by todays standards. I know this sounds simple, but it is something you need to remind yourself of: those relocations happened in 1996, not 2011.

Overall NHL revenues were significantly lower - struggling franchises had a much larger impact on the league as a whole.

The economic environment in Canada was much worse at the time - the Canadian dollar hovering between 60-70 cents was a huge barrier to overcome.

The league was operating under a different CBA - revenue sharing and the salary cap did not exist.

The facilities that those locations had at the time were sub-par.

And of course, possibly the biggest reason of all, no one wanted to own a team in any of those locations at the time. The Canadian federal, provincial, an municipal governments were not willing or able to entice potential owners with subsidies the way glendale and other American locations have enticed owners (I believe the city of WINN supported the jets for a season or two to the tune of ~5-10 million dollars. I do not have a source for that but there is an article about it floating around)
 

Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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For 7m a year you don't make mistakes, you take calculated risks. A calculated risk that doesn't work out is not a mistake. Some risks AREN'T going to work out. That's life. Are you moving things forward despite the risk setbacks? Yes? Then you're doing what you're supposed to do.

You want to run a big business without risks? You won't HAVE a big business for long. Fortune favors the brave.

So let me get this straight. So long as there is some chance of success, even say 1 in 10^10, if things go wrong, Bettman could not legitimately be held accountable.

If you handed all of your savings over to an investment manager and he put it all into lottery tickets, I take it that you would say the same thing as above. After all, imagine where you would be if even half of the tickets won top prizes.
 
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AllByDesign

Who's this ABD guy??
Mar 17, 2010
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Location, Location!
No, he hasn't. There isn't a single quote that holds up to this "lying" accusation once context is restored. Not a single one.

Maclean : The attourneys submitted that Jerry Moyes retain his title to avoid public embarassment, and you went along with it.

Bettman : No, a lot of things get mis-characterized. When we forwarded monies, Moyes executed proxies to not make any extraordinary acts but could retain his position.

Maclean shuffles papers, umm it says here that you said it was a matter of public embarassment.

Bettman: Correct.

He got caught in a lie and retracted. It may have only been a lie for 17 seconds, but a lie none the less.

This reeks of revisionism. You have NO idea what information was available to the NHL beforehand. Pretty easy to say "you missed steps" afterwards, isn't it?

I haven't altered any facts. It is true, I have no idea what information would have been available on the long list of bad owners that the NHL had given the green light to. I do have an advantage of hindsight. I feel it is reasonable to take my stance based on the sheer volume of failures in a short period of time that the league has had allowed into their realm.

Given what happens in the world of big business as a whole, would it shock you to learn that there is virtually no difference between the NHL and anyone else involved in deals involving tens of millions of dollars? One suspects the only billion dollar business you actually pay attention to to this degree is the NHL itself.

Wow... really??? Thank you for shedding the light on this. I have just been living under an NHL rock for my life... imagine I missed the entire American mortgage meltdown and the death of the world's largest auto manufacturer.

I apologize for speaking directly in regards to the NHL business model on an NHL business discussion forum. :sarcasm:


The only "messes" come when an individual member attempts to damage the league itself, ie Moyes and Balsillie trying to illegally use bankruptcy to endrun the league rules, but there's not much the league can do about that.

And, in what they did, they managed to hold their rights which should never have been called into question. They still haven't solved the problem at hand in Phoenix. Which brings us to another Bettman lie... "We are doing everything we can to sell the team to someone who will keep the team in Glendale"

No... No they haven't. I have a chuckle anytime someone says "Bettman should have tried this hard with Winnipeg"... The NHL has been the single entity holding up a deal of the Coyotes to local ownership. I know... you're thinking ABD... you've been drinking again. let's examine...

There have been 3 potential owners attempting to buy the Coyotes. 2 have been eliminated because Glendale wasn't giving enough. The third is hanging in the balance between the GWI and the Bond Market. Anyone ever care to consider that if the NHL just relented and decided to sell the team for actual market value, Glendale would not have to do all of the heavy lifting here? The NHL has done wonders in deflecting blame, but their insistence on not losing $1 on the bankruptcy purchase is the single true entity holding a deal back.

The NHL, as a group, made the decision to buy this team out of bankruptcy in order to make a point. To assert their will. Now they don't want to pay the piper for their decision. Phoenix may suffer as a result.

What about Basille? Keeping him from becoming an owner may have been the best thing the owners have done in a long time.
Basille is a loose canon - the more I learned about him, the more slimey he became.

Balsillie started out playing a clean game, and was left in the lurches bythe BOG by sudden changes in terms. The NHL and Bettman state clearly it was Jim's decision to walk away from Pittsburgh and Nashville, but they turned the screw on him. He resulting public attempts to make the NHL the fool is the most recent recollection in peoples mind so he lives with the moniker provided by that fact.
You can never say never, but Balsillie's case of sour grapes may very well preclude him from ever being an owner in the NHL.

One thing that many posters seem to miss is that the commissioner is not a publicly elected official. The position is not one of public trust. He doesn't owe an explanation of anything to the public.

The commissioner serves at the pleasure of the ownership of the 30 individual teams. The very idea that anyone believes it's their right to ask him "tough" or "easy" questions is laughable. There is one group that can ask tough questions and expect any answers, the owners.

Please show the last time the commissioners of the NFL, NBA or MLB felt the need to be "held accountable" by any TV Network.

Bud Selig had quite a rough go with the media for some time. Somehow you and I will disagree on this topic regardless of what we use as example. I do agree, it isn't the "Right" of the media to speak with Bettman, or any league commish. If I don't make myself available to my customer base, it makes it that much more difficult to retain them as clients. My clients don't have a "right" to discuss any matter with me, but rest assured I make myself available to them, regardless of the matter.
 
Nov 13, 2006
11,525
1,404
Ohio
Bud Selig had quite a rough go with the media for some time. Somehow you and I will disagree on this topic regardless of what we use as example. I do agree, it isn't the "Right" of the media to speak with Bettman, or any league commish. If I don't make myself available to my customer base, it makes it that much more difficult to retain them as clients. My clients don't have a "right" to discuss any matter with me, but rest assured I make myself available to them, regardless of the matter.

I agree about your clients, and the NHL's. If your clients are unhappy, they will choose to spend their money elsewhere. If we are customers of the NHL, we have the same option available. How many times have you and I both posted that other options like Major Junior and the AHL are in fact attractive alternatives?
 

AllByDesign

Who's this ABD guy??
Mar 17, 2010
2,317
0
Location, Location!
You want to run a big business without risks? You won't HAVE a big business for long. Fortune favors the brave.

Fortune favors the "correct".

Either way, it wasn't a lie. The Coyotes situation was in hand until Moyes and Balsillie decided to try to illegally sell and move the team. They were slapped down but the current mess is a direct result of the damage the two of them caused.

Sure it was in hand. Moyes wanted to sell a team that had zero value in its current location. Given the current subsidies by Glendale to entice a buyer it seems that zero is the current market value.

The NHL wouldn't allow him to sell to a potnetial buyer outside of Arizona, thus rendering all of his investment worthless. The Bankruptcy was an end run to re-coup as much of his investment as possible. Moyes ended up making out better in the end, than if he hadn't dropped the franchise into bankruptcy, even if he didn't recoup as much as he wanted.

Perhaps it would be more productive to look less at Bettman not giving the interview,
and more at MacLean for being twofaced in his dealings with the league vs the interview with the NHLPA
. I suspect he got the message loud and clear: it is not the media's job to take sides.
If Ron MacLean wants to be the Fox News of the NHL, then the NHL isn't going to stop him
... but it isn't going to give him any direct access in that case either

The list of drama queens around here is starting to grow. Do you honestly believe that Bettman was trying to teach MacLean a lesson? Could it not be as simple as "Gee I don't much feel like tap-dancing through the questions regarding Phoenix and Atlanta, so I'll just opt out this time."? We all know that MacLean likely spent the better part of a week boning up on Municipal Bond lingo and Bettman would deflect any questions on the matter to Glendale as the NHL isn't in the Bond Business.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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Balsillie started out playing a clean game, and was left in the lurches by the BOG by sudden changes in terms. The NHL and Bettman state clearly it was Jim's decision to walk away from Pittsburgh and Nashville, but they turned the screw on him.

Woops, I do take issue on that score ABD. Yes, they "turned the screws" & the tables on him 24hrs prior to closing because it had become glaringly apparent the Cat had ulterior motives, and yes, "he lied to Mario" about it. I find that unforgivable. Nashville is well documented; Phoenix only here because of his architects idiocy in trying an end-run through BK court. Reinsdorf wouldve' owned that team Spring 2009. The guy played the game in the boardroom about as cleanly as Gordie Howe played it on the ice. Cut out the palms of your gloves, insert some metal washers in your elbow pads.... He's also far too litigious for his own good. Who the Hell wants a partner like that?.

I support Hamiltons' ambitions, however, with friends like that who needs enemies, as if MLSE & the Sabres werent' enough of an obstacle.... just sayin. Have at er'.
 
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