Better GM? Dubas or Benning

[Hisch13r]

The one who overpays for top guys rather than 4th liners

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Dubas hasn't done FA

 

[IslesBro715]

sometimes I wonder if Kyle Dubas is playing fantasy hockey

 

[DKH]

LMAO I know.

Let us know when Dubas acquires a laundry list of terrible contracts half as long as Benning's.

He can’t even if he wants to

 

[North Cole]

Its still Dubas just like last time...

And the time before....

And....well you probably get it.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Is there a neither should be a GM option ??

This is the answer. Both way in over their heads.

 

[bossram]

He can’t even if he wants to

Dubas: Overpay good players, no room for anyone else.

Benning: Overpay bad players, no room for anyone else.

Ummm.... I think I know which I'd rather have.

 

[WaW]

Dubas is an average GM (prob somewhere between 12th-18th if you rank all of the active GMs in the league) who's had some bad luck. Benning is downright terrible and easily bottom 5.

Vancouver would literally be better if they had made no UFA signings at all the last 3 or 4 years, that's how bad Benning is.

 

[Lays]

Dubas did everything for that core this year. This loss isn’t entirely on him.
He’s not a bad GM.

He absolutely is a bad GM. What has he done with the talent he was gifted? Let’s see

Gives Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander exactly what they wanted. In hindsight, the Nylander contract was good but he gave in to negotiations. These contracts created a privileged atmosphere in Toronto as he handed them what they wanted before they won anything. Matthews’ contract takes him to UFA. Marner gets 11 million off an entry level contract. The Tavares one was market value, couldn’t even get his hometown boy to take a slight discount similar to Shattenkirk in NY how NY told Shatty they won’t sign him at what other teams were offering. TBL and a few other teams offered 8x8 million. Shatty “only” gets 7x4. Same with Panarin, who also took less than what other teams were offering to come to NY.

Trading one of their only physical presences in Kadri for two soft players; Kerfoot and Barrie. Barrie was a bad fit from the start and to absolutely no ones surprise he wasn’t good for Toronto.

Trading a 1st round pick to get rid of Marleau’s 6 million dollar cap hit. The 1st round pick ended up becoming 13th overall. Jeff Gorton trades a 2nd round pick during a pandemic to get rid of Staal’s 5.7 million dollar cap hit. Don Sweeney trades a 1st round pick along with Backes’ contract (6 mil) to return a middle 6 winger in Ondrej Kase. The same year he employs Cody Ceci at 4 million dollars

Buys into the hype that the Leafs are an actual contender, and not just dummying highly flawed Canadian teams without facing actual competition, and trades a 1st round pick for Nick Foligno, who does absolutely nothing with Toronto. And then his team loses to the worst team coming into the playoffs.

Brings in his boy Sheldon Keefe, who has been better than Babcock sure, but still not even good enough to get the Leafs past the first round...against Bergevin’s team.

Still has yet to address the goaltending issue in Toronto through 3 years. Still has yet to address the defensive issue through 3 years. And, still has a soft team which has been his mentality all along—which he’ll switch up from once he realizes that soft teams don’t do well in NHL postseasons

He won in a GM poll on here over Jeff Gorton, and Kyle Dubas has still yet to make a trade as good as Brassard for Zibanejad+2nd or even Rick Nash for Ryan Strome, Ryan Lindgren, and K’Andre Miller. He’s overrated because he’s Toronto’s GM

 

[DKH]

Dubas: Overpay good players, no room for anyone else.

Benning: Overpay bad players, no room for anyone else.

Ummm.... I think I know which I'd rather have.

I’ll take the guy they had before Dubas

seems like a very nice kid though

 

[Hoglander]

Dubas is actually decent at managing, but he has no idea how to put together a good playoff team.

Benning is literally bad at every aspect, but has a better understanding of what it takes to win in the playoffs.

They are both screwed

 

[LeProspector]

He absolutely is a bad GM. What has he done with the talent he was gifted? Let’s see

Gives Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander exactly what they wanted. In hindsight, the Nylander contract was good but he gave in to negotiations. These contracts created a privileged atmosphere in Toronto as he handed them what they wanted before they won anything. Matthews’ contract takes him to UFA. Marner gets 11 million off an entry level contract. The Tavares one was market value, couldn’t even get his hometown boy to take a slight discount similar to Shattenkirk in NY how NY told Shatty they won’t sign him at what other teams were offering. TBL and a few other teams offered 8x8 million. Shatty “only” gets 7x4. Same with Panarin, who also took less than what other teams were offering to come to NY.

Trading one of their only physical presences in Kadri for two soft players; Kerfoot and Barrie. Barrie was a bad fit from the start and to absolutely no ones surprise he wasn’t good for Toronto.

Trading a 1st round pick to get rid of Marleau’s 6 million dollar cap hit. The 1st round pick ended up becoming 13th overall. Jeff Gorton trades a 2nd round pick during a pandemic to get rid of Staal’s 5.7 million dollar cap hit. Don Sweeney trades a 1st round pick along with Backes’ contract (6 mil) to return a middle 6 winger in Ondrej Kase. The same year he employs Cody Ceci at 4 million dollars

Buys into the hype that the Leafs are an actual contender, and not just dummying highly flawed Canadian teams without facing actual competition, and trades a 1st round pick for Nick Foligno, who does absolutely nothing with Toronto. And then his team loses to the worst team coming into the playoffs.

Brings in his boy Sheldon Keefe, who has been better than Babcock sure, but still not even good enough to get the Leafs past the first round...against Bergevin’s team.

Still has yet to address the goaltending issue in Toronto through 3 years. Still has yet to address the defensive issue through 3 years. And, still has a soft team which has been his mentality all along—which he’ll switch up from once he realizes that soft teams don’t do well in NHL postseasons

He won in a GM poll on here over Jeff Gorton, and Kyle Dubas has still yet to make a trade as good as Brassard for Zibanejad+2nd or even Rick Nash for Ryan Strome, Ryan Lindgren, and K’Andre Miller. He’s overrated because he’s Toronto’s GM

The trade was actually Nash for Spooner, Lindgren and a 1st.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Who is better?
I’d say Dubas although both are near the bottom. Benning has a good draft record but is poor at everything else. Dubas inherited a much better team and has made it worse each year but at least overpays his star players. His last trade of a first and two fourths for a few games of a hobbled Nick Foligno though is Chiarelliesque or dare I say even Milyburyian.
Neither should really be GMs.

 

[Lays]

The trade was actually Nash for Spooner, Lindgren and a 1st.

Which he turned into Ryan Strome, K’Andre Miller, and Ryan Lindgren. 3 trades total but stemming from the Nash trade

 

[Joe Rogan]

 

[Krewe]

Canucks are let down by their GM despite star players best efforts

Leafs are let down by star players despite GMs best efforts

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think dubas is an above average GM. Unfortunately he's terrible with contract negotiation for star players, but everywhere else I think he'd really good.

It's honestly hard to fault him for this year. They definitely played well enough to win but thems the breaks.

 

[bossram]

Dubas is actually decent at managing, but he has no idea how to put together a good playoff team.

Benning is literally bad at every aspect, but has a better understanding of what it takes to win in the playoffs.

They are both screwed

You have to actually make the playoffs for that to matter.

And I'm not sure Benning understands anything. The Canucks rode Markstrom and Binnington imploding on himself to get past St. Louis. Then they got embarrassed by Vegas in every game of that series, save for Demko turning in one of the greatest goaltending performances of all time. A good playoff team is just...a good team. Benning is unable to build a good team.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

You have to actually make the playoffs for that to matter.

And I'm not sure Benning understands anything. The Canucks rode Markstrom and Binnington imploding on himself to get past St. Louis. Then they got embarrassed by Vegas in every game of that series, save for Demko turning in one of the greatest goaltending performances of all time. A good playoff team is just...a good team. Benning is unable to build a good team.

Except he's been able to draft. You can't 'build' a team without drafting.

As much as there's very good reason to bash him on the pro-end for spending on bad pieces around the core, everyone ignores that Benning is also the one who has put the core in place - with NO LOTTERY LUCK, have not picked higher than #5.

Dubas inherited a team with a generational #1 pick - on top of Marner (a higher pick than anyone we've had), also Sakic - since we are often compared timeline wise - took over a team that got a generational #1 pick. We haven't had that luxury.

I don't think Benning will get this team to the next level but I also don't think Mike Gillis, for example, - with his WOAT draft record - would've been able to lay the groundwork we have now.

Its easy to say Benning overpaid Roussel & Beagle, therefore he has no idea how to build a team. But what heavy lifting has Dubas done to compare with adding a #1C, two #1 Wingers, a (potential) #1D, and a #1G?

He's had the Gillis role of establishing an internal structure and adding pieces to an established core, so far he hasn't come close to getting the job done.

 

[MikeyMike01]

They’re both bottom 5

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

I remember when divas first got the gm gig people were claiming he was the best gm and Sakic was the worst.

ohhh how things change.

 

[Volica]

Benning is whole new level of bad once that Tanev/Markstrom stuff came out.
Dubas wins by default here, but I’d honestly say both guys are bottom 15, along with pretty much every other Canadian GM

 

[bossram]

Except he's been able to draft. You can't 'build' a team without drafting.

As much as there's very good reason to bash him on the pro-end for spending on bad pieces around the core, everyone ignores that Benning is also the one who has put the core in place - with NO LOTTERY LUCK, have not picked higher than #5.

Dubas inherited a team with a generational #1 pick - on top of Marner (a higher pick than anyone we've had), also Sakic - since we are often compared timeline wise - took over a team that got a generational #1 pick. We haven't had that luxury.

I don't think Benning will get this team to the next level but I also don't think Mike Gillis, for example, - with his WOAT draft record - would've been able to lay the groundwork we have now.

Its easy to say Benning overpaid Roussel & Beagle, therefore he has no idea how to build a team. But what heavy lifting has Dubas done to compare with adding a #1C, two #1 Wingers, a (potential) #1D, and a #1G?

He's had the Gillis role of establishing an internal structure and adding pieces to an established core, so far he hasn't come close to getting the job done.

It's the same arguments over and over again. Benning is not the head scout of this club. He is the GM. He shouldn't have the time nor inclination to be doing deep scouting assignments on individual players. He has to trust his scouts, and as we all know, his head scout (who oversaw our "successful" draft record" just left). And if you want to assign credit for Benning drafting, you have to assign him blame for blowing it on Virtanen and Juolevi (and this is absolutely not hindsight analysis as I never wanted to draft them at those pick slots).

Outside of top-selections, Toronto's drafting and developing also allowed them to integrate cheap useful players like Dermott, Sandin, Brooks, Engvall, Mikeheyv (although not a draft pick). And Dubas was also reportedly heavily involved in the draft prior to Mark Hunter.

Dubas has added many effective, complementary players to the core: Guys like Brodie, Muzzin, Campbell, Spezza. Benning's pro acquisitions have been...mixed to say the least. He hasn't acquired a single defenseman as good as Muzzin/Brodie. He's had to manage a delicate cap dance, something Benning has shown incapable of doing. Benning hasn't shown any inclination for building a team other than drafting, and how much of the drafting is really on him? Boeser? Hoglander? Demko? Rathbone? You think he personally vouched for these guys? Credible media sources say he preferred Glass over Petterson.

I don't even think Dubas is that great of a GM. But Benning might be the actual worst GM in the NHL. Beagle, Roussell, Sutter, Myers, Baertschi, Spooner buyout, Ferland, Virtanen, Holtby. A group of players that collectively add nothing to the team, at a cost of $~30 million. Such fantastic management.

 

[Satoru Gojo]

Dubas simps for Marner and Nylander the same way Benning does for fourth liners

 

[mattydamon]

dim jim still loses this to any gm in the league in my opinion, i'll take dubas.