Toews2Bickell
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Better GM - Bergevin or Bowman
- Thread starter Toews2Bickell
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King Karl
five-year run of unparalleled suffering
Maybe I've gotten a bit out of the loop, but this seems like an odd comparison. I recall seeing threads a couple years ago calling Bowman one of the best GMs of the modern era, and similarly saw recent threads with Montreal fans hoping that this is the year the team's underperformance was enough that Bergevin gets the boot (obviously pre-playoffs).
Bowman because I think his biggest misses have been "legacy" stuff and that wouldn't be a problem on a new team. He doesn't have a blind spot for his aging previous cup winning core if there is no previous cup winning core.
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
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with montreal's playoff run there is random ongoing debate on hawks forum about the moves bergevin has done to supplement the youth on roster versus what bowman has done in recent years, whether bowman is just not making the right moves via ufa/trade market to build the roster and is he relying too much on draft and european market to do so, whether montreal or chicago is better positioned to be a consistent playoff team moving forward, etc...there is also indifference between the two gms and belief that both are average at best...bowman post 2016/2017 has been quite bad
WarriorofTime
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- Jul 3, 2010
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Bowman won a Cup in his sixth season as GM. Regardless of who tanked to get key pieces, he deserves credit for the management through that point.
Bergy finally understood how to build his team....Build a big tough defense in front of Price and dont let anyone near him ....Must have paid attention to us in Ottawa after we did in... The skill team he built a few years back with Gryba,Cowen,Methot etc
abo9
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- Jun 25, 2017
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Chicago won the Cup 3 times in 6 years.... his biggest downfall is rewarding the guys who gave him those Cups. And even after being "horrid", the Hawks are about in the same position in the standings as Montreal year in year out, and MB's Canadiens have not done squat before this year...
Bowman >>> Bergevin based on results
Bowman built Cup winners. Bergevin built a decent team that makes a run once in a while and people lose their mind over it
jetsforever
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- Dec 14, 2013
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Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
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no its just bowman pre 2015 and bowman post 2015 are two completely different gms...pre 2015 he made all the right moves and after that 3rd cup he kind of ran the org into the ground, so the basis of this poll is kind of given how bowman and bergevin have performed as gm the last 2-3 years the question is who would you rather have building your roster/org going forward...bowman has sort of been in this rebuild phase since 2018 and they've made some but not a ton of progress
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
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seems like a reasonable answer, bowman went from great to bad relatively quickly...he gave away some key pieces in panarin, teravainen and philip danault...
Danault and a 2nd even.... pick ended out being Romanov.
also took back Andrew Shaw for a 2nd and 3rd two seasons ago
ironically. Berg gave two 2nds for him in 2016... one of those picks was Debrincat!
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Yarice
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- Oct 28, 2011
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I have been really hard on Bergevin in the last few years. I said multiple time I would like to replace him, because he was only average, or even slightly bellow average. But now, I have to admit I was most definitly wrong. Building a team is so much more than ''you just have to tank, draft some stars, then get any goalie for cheap, that will do the job''. He was able to build a team that plays way better than the sum of it's part. He was also able to look at what he had under his hand, and to build a team with what he had, instead of just hoping to get a franchise player via the lottery.
And, most importantly, since I watch hockey, it looks like habs always have a great RS team that does not perform in the PO. He was able to build a team that would be able to perform when it matters the most. Is it sustainable? I honestly don't know. Let's hope he will continue his good work and that next year edition of the team will be even better.
And, most importantly, since I watch hockey, it looks like habs always have a great RS team that does not perform in the PO. He was able to build a team that would be able to perform when it matters the most. Is it sustainable? I honestly don't know. Let's hope he will continue his good work and that next year edition of the team will be even better.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Bowman reloaded the Hawks twice to cups.
Bergevin is riding a random freak run to what we don’t even know yet.
pathetic seeing how people are still calling this a "fluke" EVEN AFTER eliminating the likes of TOR, WPG who both have high power offenses, and now have a 3-2 lead on VEGAS of all teams.
Give credit where credit is due like a true hockey fan should. They have one of, if not THE best defense int he league right now shutting down ALL the top offensive players (Matthews, Marner, Connor, Dubois, Wheeler, Ehlers, Stone, Pacioretty, Marchesseault), and no its not all Price if you acutally watch the games.
But its just a "freak run" apparently.... and I bet youd say the same if they win the Cup knowing your type. Its become so pathetic seeing so called hockey fans express this poor narrative after getting this far in the playoffs. You arent even true fans, just homers who hate on other teams. Sad even.
Plus Bowman didnt even draft the Hawks core. The only key piece he got was drafting Saad in 2011!! Since then he traded away the likes of: Panarin, Teravainen, Danault and a 2nd (Romonov) for virtually NOTHING. Imagine having those guys right about now?
Meanwhile Berg singlehandedly made this roster into a contender by adding the likes of: Toffoli, Anderson, Perry, Edmundson, and Allen last fall. Traded for Suzuki, Tatar, Staal.... drafted: KK, Caufield (steal of the draft), and Romanov in the 2nd round.
His one blunder was Drouin for Sergachev.
Buddy, do your research before posting garbage. Theres enough as it is on here.
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Gurglesons
Registered User
so was Dallas a fluke last year? Vegas in 2018 a fluke too?.... one round can be a fluke, sure, or if these were single elimination games, but 3 rounds in a best of 7? no way (yes, I know they havent beat Vegas yet). And dont be one of those "the North is weak". Toronto and Winnipeg have some of the top offenses in the league with or without Tavares/Scheifele. If anything the West was worse with 5 garbage teams.
Peaking at the right time, and adjusting to your opponent is what you need to do to win in the playoffs, and thats what those teams did/have done. It doesnt mean Montreal are going to be contenders next year, it happens every so often that underdogs make it to the SCF (CAR 02, ANA 03, CGY 04, EDM 06, NJ 12, NYR 14, VGK 18, DAL 20). But you dont win 11 playoff games by "fluke".
A GM that Helped make what basically is a modern dynasty team vs a GM who hasn't actually won a cup yet.
Hmmmmmmmm
28% of the poll board is Habs polls. Yikes!
Hmmmmmmmm
28% of the poll board is Habs polls. Yikes!
Pyrophorus
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JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
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There have been plenty of flukey cinderella runs in the playoffs, mostly on the back of PDO binges.
In the last 10 years or so alone we've seen:
Ottawa in 2017
Phoenix in 2012
Montreal in 2010
You could even make arguments for Dallas in 2020 and Vegas in 2018, as both significantly over-performed on the basis of unsustainable goaltending and shooting percentage before house of cards fell.
Before that you had the likes of Washington going to the Final in 1998, and many many more before that.
It's kind of hilarious to suggest Bergevin is a genius for taking a team that finished 24th in the league, turned it into a team that finished 18th in the league, fired the coach midway through the season cause the team was struggling so bad, the team only makes the playoffs cause Calgary is somehow even worse and Vancouver gets the plague, and then each round of the playoffs their opponent loses a top 6 center. That's some 5D chess right there if you want to pretend this path was the plan all along.
