"Better Career" Esposito or Crosby?

[buffalowing88]

Esposito retired 2nd all time in career scoring to Gordie Howe and he was 3rd when 18 years later Gretzky retired.

WHEREAS... Crosby isn't top 30 all time in scoring, behind the likes of Turgeon, Andreychuk and Gartner.

Esposito had 5 Art Ross seasons.

WHEREAS... Crosby had 2.

I can take arbitrary goal posts and move them around as well!

Crosby is a full season behind jumping all of those guys at the age of 34.

Espo won all of his Art Ross trophies when the 2nd or 3rd best player of all-time was on the ice.

I can't even formulate a metric to come up with the bizarre one about him still being in the top 3 when Gretzky retired when it comes to Crosby. That means almost nothing and is just weird to use.

Crosby is the better all-around player. Espo was amazing, no one is arguing with that, but Crosby has put up the totality of a complete player which Espo just doesn't have.

He probably wasn't as good at rock-paper-scissors historically, though. I should keep that in mind.

 

[VanIslander]

I can't even formulate a metric to come up with the bizarre one about him still being in the top 3 when Gretzky retired when it comes to Crosby. That means almost nothing and is just weird to use.

Huh?

18 years after Esposito retired, Gretzky retired, it taking until then to bump him out of 3rd place among retirees. It took another 5 years before Messier retired with more.

Crosby will be top 3 or top 5 in NHL career scoring for 18 to 23 years after he retires?! He isn't even top 30 now after 16 years!!

No way.

Better career, indeed.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Interested to hear from the Espo > Crosby crowd if there is any other forward other than Wayne, Mario or Howe that would be ahead of Espo and why.

Same ones ahead of Crosby.

Beliveau
Jagr
Messier is a debate

 

[K Fleur]

Contextless career point totals is a strange(read almost useless) way to compare hockey players.

 

[wetcoast]

Have you asked yourself...

Who has had the best SINGLE season?
Best 3-year stretch?
Best 5-year stretch?

Regular season + playoffs combined...

Phil also has the worst stretches here and by quite a bit as well.

But I guess if wasn’t buried by Mikita and Hull he would have broken out before joining Orr and the Bruins right?

Does anyone seriously think Phil would have scored 76 goals or 152 points without being on that Bruins team?

Or even hit 60 or 130?

 

[Czech Your Math]

Phil also has the worst stretches here and by quite a bit as well.

But I guess if wasn’t buried by Mikita and Hull he would have broken out before joining Orr and the Bruins right?

Does anyone seriously think Phil would have scored 76 goals or 152 points without being on that Bruins team?

Or even hit 60 or 130?

Yeah, I tend to agree with you, but there was a lot going on then. A couple of things to note:

* Without expansion, nobody would have scored anything like what Espo did.
* In most cases, Espo didn't need to score nearly that many points & goals to win those titles, esp. if both he and Orr had drops in production.

Still, it's a legitimate question why he didn't score anywhere near what he did in Boston while with Chicago & Rangers. One has to wonder how well he would have produced on a different team in a different era. For Crosby, the question is whether he would stayed healthy enough to play nearly full seasons for most of a long career.

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah, I tend to agree with you, but there was a lot going on then. A couple of things to note:

* Without expansion, nobody would have scored anything like what Espo did.
* In most cases, Espo didn't need to score nearly that many points & goals to win those titles, esp. if both he and Orr had drops in production.

Still, it's a legitimate question why he didn't score anywhere near what he did in Boston while with Chicago & Rangers. One has to wonder how well he would have produced on a different team in a different era. For Crosby, the question is whether he would stayed healthy enough to play nearly full seasons for most of a long career.

I also think that it is important to note that Phil, like pretty much all stars in the 70s NHL enjoyed not only the benefit of rapid expansion but also the formation of the WHA, with little or no new talent streams.

We have all seen what Crosby has done for 14 straight years in a mature NHL.

The case for Phil being better or having a better career ended years ago.

 

[daver]

Same ones ahead of Crosby.

Beliveau
Jagr
Messier is a debate

What does Beliveau have over Esposito that Crosby doesn't have over Esposito?

 

[VanIslander]

Messier is not a debate.

You can count on your fingers the number of guys who you would rather play with to win a championship.

The corollary: he is one of the few you would dread playing against in the biggest games.

 

[scott clam]

Phil was something of a late bloomer, so he doesn't have as many elite seasons.

 

[VanIslander]

ESPOSITO
Age 26-31 ... 4 Art Ross trophies, 6 1st team all stars.

CROSBY
Age 19 one Art Ross, age 26 one more. With 4 1st team all stars his whole career.

You can throw other things in to make them same tier, but Crosby ain't clearly better than Esposito.

 

[Staniowski]

Yeah, I tend to agree with you, but there was a lot going on then. A couple of things to note:

* Without expansion, nobody would have scored anything like what Espo did.
* In most cases, Espo didn't need to score nearly that many points & goals to win those titles, esp. if both he and Orr had drops in production.

Still, it's a legitimate question why he didn't score anywhere near what he did in Boston while with Chicago & Rangers. One has to wonder how well he would have produced on a different team in a different era. For Crosby, the question is whether he would stayed healthy enough to play nearly full seasons for most of a long career.

There is no mystery as to why Esposito scored as he did throughout his career - in Chicago, Boston, New York.

It's very easy to understand. It's no more difficult than it is for any other player.

I think the people who don't understand, just don't want to understand.