Best Russian Right Winger - Peak Bure vs. Peak Kucherov?

[authentic]

Curious who would be considered better here. I think there's good arguments for both.

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[Kupo]

Bure was the better goal scorer, Kucherov’s the better hockey player.

 

[Regal]

Bure was more physically gifted. Kucherov is the smarter player. Bure never achieved what Kucherov has, but he also never played with a linemate as good as Point when he was healthy at his best, nor a defenseman as good as Hedman (or overall defense as good at transitioning the puck as the Bolts). Part of me thinks he could have been just as if not more successful in the right environment in a season where everything went his way like Kucherov did in '19. His play in the 2nd half of '94 with Odjick and Craven as his linemates and then into the playoffs was incredible, and I think he had a more consistent shift to shift impact, as Kucherov can kind of get stuck in lulls similar to Malkin then take over in spurts. No red line and a defensemen who could hit him with the pass regularly at speed would be deadly. It's hard to go against Kucherov for actually achieving what he has though, and I worry about falling too far into nostalgia territory

 

[ViD]

Gotta be Kuch, he’s a more complete player

 

[wetcoast]

Bure was more physically gifted. Kucherov is the smarter player. Bure never achieved what Kucherov has, but he also never played with a linemate as good as Point when he was healthy at his best, nor a defenseman as good as Hedman (or overall defense as good at transitioning the puck as the Bolts). Part of me thinks he could have been just as if not more successful in the right environment in a season where everything went his way like Kucherov did in '19. His play in the 2nd half of '94 with Odjick and Craven as his linemates and then into the playoffs was incredible, and I think he had a more consistent shift to shift impact, as Kucherov can kind of get stuck in lulls similar to Malkin then take over in spurts. No red line and a defensemen who could hit him with the pass regularly at speed would be deadly. It's hard to go against Kucherov for actually achieving what he has though, and I worry about falling too far into nostalgia territory

Fair enough but I still went with Bure.

 

[bobholly39]

lol, why is Bure winning? Kucherov just swept all of the awards and won an art ross by scoring 128 points, much more than Bure ever did despite playing in some much higher scoring years.

Bure was great - but peak Kucherov has absolutely done better.

 

[Mulletman]

lol, why is Bure winning? Kucherov just swept all of the awards and won an art ross by scoring 128 points, much more than Bure ever did despite playing in some much higher scoring years.

Bure was great - but peak Kucherov has absolutely done better.

Well Bure played in the dead puck era against better star players and was able to win the Rocket several times. And Bure didn't just score goals, he scored with Anna Kurnikova as well. When you take all that into consideration this is easily Bure!

 

[kcunac]

They are quite different. Bure is the better goal scorer and Kucherov the better playmaker. Bure had a tendency to try and do it all by himself, likely a consequence of not having as good teammates as Kucherov. Also relevant is Bure played in the clutch and grab era, and as the obvious best player on the ice, he consistently faced physical and dirty play, leading to significant injuries. If I switched their teams and eras I wonder if Kucherov would have done as well as Bure? I think Bure would have put up even bigger numbers than he did playing in this era's Lightning.

I'm not saying Bure is better, but he is my favourite player of all time so I thought I'd make some arguments in his favour.

 

[Albatros]

lol, why is Bure winning? Kucherov just swept all of the awards and won an art ross by scoring 128 points, much more than Bure ever did despite playing in some much higher scoring years.

Bure was great - but peak Kucherov has absolutely done better.

More points, sure. But hardly anyone would choose to watch Kucherov over Bure. As an offensive force Bure was completely unstoppable, an all-time legend. Kucherov despite his achievements is still barely above forgettable.

 

[bobholly39]

More points, sure. But hardly anyone would choose to watch Kucherov over Bure. As an offensive force Bure was completely unstoppable, an all-time legend. Kucherov despite his achievements is still barely above forgettable.

More entertaining to watch? Sure - give me Bure. Doesn't mean better player though

 

[JoVel]

More points, sure. But hardly anyone would choose to watch Kucherov over Bure. As an offensive force Bure was completely unstoppable, an all-time legend. Kucherov despite his achievements is still barely above forgettable.

If we go by that logic Datsyuk is a top 5 player all time.

 

[Albatros]

If we go by that logic Datsyuk is a top 5 player all time.

Datsyuk was underrated if anything.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

If we go by that logic Datsyuk is a top 5 player all time.

I mean, based on pure skill he might be

 

[tony d]

Pavel Bure.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Bure was the better goal scorer and definitely more fun to watch but he was never the best player in any season, never even close actually. 1 of those 90s players who gets overrated like crazy. The answer is Kucherov.

 

[Brucelenok]

Bure was the better goal scorer and definitely more fun to watch but he was never the best player in any season, never even close actually. 1 of those 90s players who gets overrated like crazy. The answer is Kucherov.

It is not crazy since you have to take into account the era, the teammates that you played with, the players you played against etc. With all due respect to Kucherov, I doubt he would win all these awards against prime Lemieux, Gretzky, Jagr, Fedorov just to name a few. P.S. I totally expect Kucherov to pass Bure career-wise though when it is all set and done.

 

[Voight]

I'd say Kuch's playoff run helps him but Bure in 1994 was arguably just as good if not better.

Tough one.

 

[ricky0034]

peak Bure never once won the Art Ross

peak Kucherov beat out a very good season by McDavid by 12 points

 

[Hammettf2b]

peak Bure never once won the Art Ross

peak Kucherov beat out a very good season by McDavid by 12 points

tbf, I doubt peak Kucherov is winning anything against these guys...

Player	Team	GP	G	A	PTS
Mario Lemieux	Pittsburgh	60	69	91	160
Pat LaFontaine	Buffalo	84	53	95	148
Adam Oates	Boston	84	45	97	142
Steve Yzerman	Detroit	84	58	79	137
Teemu Selanne	Winnipeg	84	76	56	132
Pierre Turgeon	NY Islanders	83	58	74	132
Alexander Mogilny	Buffalo	77	76	51	127
Doug Gilmour	Toronto	83	32	95	127
Luc Robitaille	Los Angeles	84	63	62	125
Mark Recchi	Philadelphia	84	53	70	123

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[amnesiac]

Kucherov is going down as one of the best playoff performers ever.... i think that gives him the edge

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

It is not crazy since you have to take into account the era, the teammates that you played with, the players you played against etc. With all due respect to Kucherov, I doubt he would win all these awards against prime Lemieux, Gretzky, Jagr, Fedorov just to name a few. P.S. I totally expect Kucherov to pass Bure career-wise though when it is all set and done.

I'm not saying Kucherov is better just because he scored more pts. But talking about era, Bure played from 93-96 which was higher scoring than any season Kucherov has ever played in. As for team mates, the best players will produce regardless of who they play with. Also, I hate when people name drop these players. Bure's best ross finish was 2nd in 2000 behind Jagr who missed 19 games so that's Bure's own fault he couldn't win. Gretzky and Lemieux weren't in the league. He also finished 3rd in 98, when Gretzky was a year away from retirement and Lemieux again wasn't in the league. So using them as excuses is wrong, whether for ross or hart. I'm not sure why you mention Fedorov because outside of 94 he was never in contention for anything. Jagr is a legit reason but Bure only came runner up to him once, and again that's when Jagr missed 19 games. It's easy to name drop Gretzky and Lemieux but they didn't stop Bure from winning anything. He was just never good enough.

 

[ricky0034]

tbf, I doubt peak Kucherov is winning anything against these guys...

Player	Team	GP	G	A	PTS
Mario Lemieux	Pittsburgh	60	69	91	160
Pat LaFontaine	Buffalo	84	53	95	148
Adam Oates	Boston	84	45	97	142
Steve Yzerman	Detroit	84	58	79	137
Teemu Selanne	Winnipeg	84	76	56	132
Pierre Turgeon	NY Islanders	83	58	74	132
Alexander Mogilny	Buffalo	77	76	51	127
Doug Gilmour	Toronto	83	32	95	127
Luc Robitaille	Los Angeles	84	63	62	125
Mark Recchi	Philadelphia	84	53	70	123

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

considering scoring was literally 20% lower in 2018-19 than 1992-93 and Kucherov actually DID have more points than 4 of those guys in spite of that....

 

[Hammettf2b]

considering scoring was literally 20% lower in 2018-19 than 1992-93 and Kucherov actually DID have more points than 4 of those guys in spite of that....

Which will still net him 0 Art Ross awards. Call Kucherov the better player all you want, I have no problem with that but to bring up awards like the Art Ross but not account for the competition between the 2 players had to play against is very disingenuous.

 

[CH]

At this point I have to pick Pavel Bure. His peak is longer than what we have seen from Kucherov so far. Ask the same question in a few years and my answer may change.

 

[Bileur]

Well Bure played in the dead puck era against better star players and was able to win the Rocket several times. And Bure didn't just score goals, he scored with Anna Kurnikova as well. When you take all that into consideration this is easily Bure!

I was on the fence and this won it for me.