Best High School player in the Northeast region for the upcoming season

Discussion in 'All other USA Amateur, USHL, NAHL, USNTDP etc.' started by Wackster, Sep 24, 2018.

View Users: View Users
  1. Wackster

    Wackster Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Quebec city
    Hi guys,

    I'm not to familiar with how High School hockey works in the USA but I would like to know some of the best player (probable Juniors or Seniors) that could come and play in the QMJHL next year! You can throw some name even if they are commited to play in the NCAA. I'm looking for player in the Massachusset-Connecticut region!

    Thanks a lot
     
  2. Barclay Donaldson

    Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    In New England, prep hockey is king and high school hockey lags behind it increasingly each year as more players leave to play juniors and midgets. It's difficult to pick out a top player because the higher end talent is spread out across prep school and midgets.

    However, those players don't go and play major juniors. Prep schools (NEPSAC) pretty much exclusively sends kids to Division I or Division III schools. There's a big emphasis on education from those schools and New England is a college hockey hotbed. A lot of them forgo American juniors and play in straight in the NESCAC conference of DIII, which has some of the best schools in the country. I know that the Q offers scholarships to local schools, but if you have Boston College, Boston University, Yale, Harvard, Brown, Northeastern, etc. knocking on the door or UQTR (et il faut qu'apprendre à lire et à écrire dans une autre langue) after your career, you'd be a fool to think too many New England kids would choose the latter.

    There's also the increasing opinion that if you do plan to play professional hockey that NCAA DI is a better at developing prospects than the Q. Looking at kids drafted and playing in the NHL now, they're not wrong either. They also get to be the kings of their schools and play in front of bigger crowds than the Q and in nicer arenas too. That, and the ability to not stray too far from home, get a world class education at the same time, and not have to learn French (even MacKinnon almost commited NCAA after he was drafted by Baie Comeau). Unfortunately for the Q, that's the mindset of kids in their American scouting grounds.
     
  3. Wackster

    Wackster Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Quebec city
    Alright thanks. It helps me a bit. As far as I'm concern... I wasn't looking for kids who would go in Baie-Comeau or Rouyn-Norando... I was talking about team with big budget as Quebec and their power of attraction to try and snatch some of the best talent that would be seduce to play in a big market and get more prepare for the grinding of the pro schedule!
     
  4. Barclay Donaldson

    Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    You will have some work to do regardless convincing prep school kids in the heart of college hockey country to go to French Canada, regardless of whether it's the Remparts de Québec in their big arena or Val d'Or in their community rink. The USHL, NCAA's primary feeder league, is seen by most Americans as being significantly better than the Q and the USHL gets better each year and the Q has been downtrending the last few years. The Eichels, Hanifins, Paciorettys, Hayes, and Donatos are almost always going to choose the world class education and high end hockey combination, neither of which counts them out of eventually going pro.

    You can try your luck and go to a showcase like Flood Marr. There's a handful of high school teams that might have kids worth looking at, but prep school has most of the kids who could end up going pro. Like I said, you'd have to look through a lot of kids because the best ones are committed to DI schools by age 15-16, and once again, are unlikely to change their minds.
     
  5. NTDP

    NTDP Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    897
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Very well said Barclay. To throw some names out that are good this year is Braeden Doyle (Lawrence Academy), John Farinacci (Dexter), Jayden Struble (St. Sebastian’s) Jack Hughes (St. Sebastian’s), Patrick Morrissey, Cade Webber (Rivers). Doubt any of these kids ever play a game in the q.

    Side note, I agree the USHL is right there if not better than the Q. But the northeast now has the NCDC junior league which I hate. Almost like they are making it an east coast USHL eventually. The goal is to keep some good New Englanders on the east coast and not head to the Midwest for the USHL. I hope it doesn’t pull some good kids away from the U.
     
  6. beaverjc

    beaverjc Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    4,071
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    101
    The Q is really only the last option for New England kids at this point. The landscape has changed dramatically over the last few years as the NCAA has improved in putting players in pro levels of hockey. The NCAA is easily the #1 route for kids now. If you dont have the grades or have zero interest in college then the Q becomes an option but otherwise its seen as a worst case scenario for most players nowadays.
     
  7. Barclay Donaldson

    Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thank you, NTDP. Growing up in New England, I can personally vouch for how few kids aim for the Q in comparison to NCAA DI. It also doesn't matter to them whether the team is in Atlantic Canada, Quebec City, or a city with 20,000 people that's a 10 hour drive to the next sign of civilization, there's four teams within the limits of Boston alone and probably a dozen within an 90 minute drive that are all beckoning.

    The NCDC ploy is a giant political game between the bigwigs of the old EJHL and USA Hockey. The core idea behind creating the league (besides lining their pockets) is to keep New England kids at home and not need to leave to play at the next level. The USHL over the last 2 decades has embodied something similar: keeping American kids in America to play for American institutions. And look at how well they've done and how major junior's stranglehold on North American talent has stagnated, if not regressed. If the NAHL had made their move to the east coast earlier instead of relocating their teams to every market under the sun, and if the USHL had managed to make an east division work before that, then the NCDC wouldn't have ever been thought up.

    Hate to chirp the Q because not that long ago it was a conveyor belt of talent, but they just don't get that many kids drafted. Out of the few high profile picks, an embarrassing amount of them weren't Quebecois let alone Canadians i.e. Hischier, Zadina, Meier, Zboril, Svechnikov, Ehlers, and the list goes on.
     
  8. Burn

    Burn Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Keep an eye out for Alex Gaffney in NJ.
     
  9. swoopster

    swoopster my "helmets"

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    MI formerly MA
    I had scouted loosely for a WHL team years ago and ran into the same problem. This is a very single minded area of the country ( Minn also ) that still places the educational...pro route. The Super eight HS teams are better then anywhere in the country except Minn. D 1 HS is also very good featuring big name towns with lots of tradition. If Your dad played at Arlington, Melrose or Hingham, then you want to be part of that also as a player.

    Hell the Catholic schools run as mini Junior programs, taking in players from everywhere, and this was going on back in the 70's when I played there.

    I am not a fan of Eastern Junior programs as they serve no other purpose then for a graduating star HS player to get bigger and stronger for a year before heading off to college. These are kids who haven't the grades ,desire or finances to spend another year Prepping. They don't want to leave the "comfort zone" and head out to the Midwest, and I can't say I blame them. Most of the kids left playing Eastern Juniors are players cut from top HS programs or from areas where the HS programs lag behind.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  10. BOS358

    BOS358 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Boston
    Alex Gaffney is playing in the USHL this year.
     
    Burn likes this.
  11. BOS358

    BOS358 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Boston
    Hey swoopster,

    With NCAA hockey producing more and more players into the NHL each year, how exactly is this a problem (other than for the CHL teams?)

    Maybe back in 19-dickety-whatever, but a lot has clearly changed since you left MA. Very few, if any go directly to college hockey anymore. They're all playing prep or juniors.

    Isn't that the point of junior hockey?

    Except that you tried to do just that.

    Maybe sometime last century. Did you know that players don't use wooden sticks anymore?
     
  12. BOS358

    BOS358 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Boston
    No, the core idea behind that league is to counter the NAHL's move to the East Coast. The goal of keeping Eastern players on the East Coast and have them develop in a similar manner to the junior programs in the Midwest was the idea behind the creation of the old EJHL. I heard it straight from the founder's mouth.

    Wrong. The USHL model would never work on the East Coast. Too much competition, too little media attention, too expensive to build a compliant rink and keep it running. It's the reason why the Aston/ Philadelphia Rebels have moved and why the Knights, Generals, and Titans are firmly entrenched at the bottom of the NAHL attendance list. Oh, and let's not forget the NAHL's Rochester (NY) Jr. Americans (1999-2000), who folded after one season because they couldn't draw fans or sponsors.
     
  13. swoopster

    swoopster my "helmets"

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    MI formerly MA
    QUOTE="BOS358, post: 151114537, member: 288993"]Hey swoopster,



    With NCAA hockey producing more and more players into the NHL each year, how exactly is this a problem (other than for the CHL teams?)
    I never said it was a problem



    Maybe back in 19-dickety-whatever, but a lot has clearly changed since you left MA. Very few, if any go directly to college hockey anymore. They're all playing prep or juniors.
    No kidding sherman....ever ask yourself why that isn't true for other NCAA sports? Follow the money...! And how many hooked into this junior cycle go nowhere? I invite you to do the math involved for the typical needs of NCAA DI and DIII for players on any given season, then total the player pool available.



    Isn't that the point of junior hockey?
    The point of US junior hockey was originally to deal with the the disadvantage that US high school seniors had playing against some predominantly Canadian rostered NCAA teams, as well as Ivy League schools who required "academic" prepping for a year ( do you want me to go back into the Wayback Machine to name them...perhaps a web search might help. ) who were all a year older. The maturity and skill level of those NCAA teams was far superior to those schools who took US high school recruits. Those Canadian recruits played far more games then the typical US High School program. Secondly, The coaches loved it, as they could "park" a prospect for another year without giving up a valuable scholarship. An Industry was born.



    Except that you tried to do just that.

    I don't know what I just tried to do. You do seem to have a bias against my age...maybe what I am saying hurts or offends you



    Maybe sometime last century. Did you know that players don't use wooden sticks anymore?

    You seem rather bitter with my assessment, If you are a parent, pull the curtain open as to what is going on, ... If a player, well best of luck too you.
    BTW I still play at my wizened age and use two wonderful 100 flex composites, and most likely have been around the hockey block more then you will ever know. Have a nice night.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  14. swoopster

    swoopster my "helmets"

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    MI formerly MA

    Oh by the way Massachusetts players with NHL Careers


    Keith Tkachuk
    Tony Amonte
    Bill Guerin
    Bobby Carpenter
    Scott Young
    Kevin Stevens
    Shawn Mc Eachern
    Marty McInnis
    Ted Donato
    Steve Heinze
    Tom Poti
    Steve Leach
    Bob Sweeney
    Kevin Hayes


    Jeremy Roenick did play 20 games for Hull QJML

    ETC
    ETC
    ETC
    I could go on and on...and none played Junior... right straight from HS to NCAA University's to the NHL!
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  15. Barclay Donaldson

    Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Check the dates, it's the other way around. NAHL started their East Division from 2014-15 after the USPHL was formed in 2013-14 with their ultimate goal being free-to-play hockey with their cradle-to-college model, and to make a pretty penny since its unsanctioned and they tax every team in the league to fund the NCDC. It's enough that they're losing at least their best Premier team in Hampton Roads to the EHL this summer, possibly others. Keeping New England kids at home may be their goal, but the very best kids jump for the UShow and the BC. I've also heard stuff straight from someone's mouth, and D1 coaches would rather have kids play a higher level of hockey than put up 1.5 ppg and stay at home. Even the NAHL, who used to be a dumpster fire, has caught up commitments-wise and has more per team than the USPHL-NCDC and the USPHL Premier had in years past. Even though the NCDC is in its infancy, check out the teams outside of the Big Four. There was a of kids committed to mediocre D3 teams.

    For NAHL attendance, Johnstown is at the top of the list. If it weren't for geography, Lewiston would be in the league and up there as well. Philly failed for those reasons, and is now in Jamestown, where they're drawing alright in a place where they're the only entertainment option. Smart move by them, it's the only way the NAHL can work. WBS and NJ were placed because the move east by the NAHL was reactionary and they were looking for just about anyone, with Maryland and NE joining them later. But, they own their rinks so they absorb the loses. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. Not an obscure NA team folding 20 years ago.

    As for the USHL, wrong about what? "If the USHL could have made the East Coast move work." They knew it couldn't work and didn't go for it. If they found a way, with all of the AHL-ECHL relocation going on, to put teams in Lewiston, Worcester, Elmira, Johnstown, and Danbury (or any other one of the half dozen markets that opened up) and managed to draw well, then the NCDC wouldn't have two legs to stand on. But the USHL kept to what they did best and stay in larger midwest markets.
     
  16. swoopster

    swoopster my "helmets"

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    MI formerly MA
    Jay Pandolfo...Burlington HS ...BU... New Jersey Devils

    The object of my post is to point out that up to 10 years ago., Massachusetts best top level High School players were going directly to NCAA I schools and into the Pros.

    What changed...???
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  17. BOS358

    BOS358 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Boston
    Football and basketball seem to be fond of redshirting freshmen, forcing them to burn more money in one year than many junior players do between high school and college. Of course, given the graduation rate for hockey vis a vis other sports, the better question is why don't the other sports do that?

    And now the best NCAA teams are usually the youngest.

    Hardly. I'm not a parent or a player, but I'm heavily involved in hockey out here. I work with plenty of guys who are most likely of your era and know just how much the landscape has changed.

    Nice list. Of the 15 players you named, seven played NEPSAC (prep) hockey, Guerin played juniors, and the eight you named were born at the latest when Nixon was still in his first term. There are 21 active NHL players born in Massachusetts. Every one of them either played NEPSAC or junior before going to college or major junior. Wish you a good night as well.
     
  18. BOS358

    BOS358 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Boston
    The USPHL was formed due to internal rifts between members of the EJHL, and because Richard Gallant has to seize hold of everything he touches. It had nothing to do with the NAHL. The fighting between the NAHL and EJHL was almost as venomous as it is today.

    Except that the NCDC started in 2017-18 and the USPHL itself formed four years earlier and had full USA Hockey sanctioning. Also, the USPHL left USA Hockey after the NCDC's application for Tier II status was turned down. The midget divisions are still fully sanctioned by USA Hockey and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future.

    As it happened when the EJHL was in business.

    Johnstown would be, as its demographics are similar to the rest of the NAHL. Same with Jamestown. Danbury, CT, might be a feasible place for an NAHL team, but that never happened. Not sure about Lewiston, since the Q team was a financial disaster.

    Talk about due dilligence! Almost makes it look like a turf war is going on...

    I wonder if they have "cradle to college" models with youth and lower-level junior teams as well. This sounds familiar for some reason...

    Mea culpa, I read that part of your post incorrectly. That said, and this is pure speculation, I don't believe they gave it more than a passing thought.
     
  19. swoopster

    swoopster my "helmets"

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    MI formerly MA
    swoopster said:
    Oh by the way Massachusetts players with NHL Careers​
    Nice list. Of the 15 players you named, seven played NEPSAC (prep) hockey, Guerin played juniors, and the eight you named were born at the latest when Nixon was still in his first term. There are 21 active NHL players born in Massachusetts. Every one of them either played NEPSAC or junior before going to college or major junior. Wish you a good night as well.

    You got me on Guerin, I must admit. You have stated 21 ACTIVE Players in the NHL. On my list, do not confuse a 4 year stay at Lawrence, Nobles, Thayer , Belmont Hill, St Sebastian's etc., as Prep Hockey. They are private High Schools schools playing in their own leage. Is Malden Catholic, BC High, St Johns Prep, Catholic Memorial, or Matignon in their day, considered a Prep School? The only difference is that the first schools listed do not play in the MA Super 8 Hockey Tournament. In my venacular, "Prep" meant a place attended after High School was finished...thus the "maturity " year, the private equivalent to playing a year of Juniors before attending a NCAA school.

    You claim that most players on my list came from when "Nixon" was in his first term( right up their with your rather smug "wooden sticks' comment ). That would have been from 1968 to 1972. I think you need to do a bit of research on players that I listed. Most were BORN at that time. That makes you a rather uneducated follower of hockey. All on that list had excellent NHL careers. Are you trying belittle players who blazed a trail of excellence for Massachusetts, as well as USA hockey?

    I would hate to have any player that I know, involved with anybody who is so "with it", that they no nothing of the past!

     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  20. swoopster

    swoopster my "helmets"

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    MI formerly MA
    swoopster said:
    You do seem to have a bias against my age...maybe what I am saying hurts or offends you?
    Hardly. I'm not a parent or a player, but I'm heavily involved in hockey out here. I work with plenty of guys who are most likely of your era and know just how much the landscape has changed.

    Since you won't answer my question, I'll answer it for you.

    Who changed the landscape...The owners of some of these lower Eastern leagues, including the USPHL with all their absurd divisions. The teams in the leagues make far too much money off gullible hockey parents and players who can't hang up the skates and realize the dream is over.

    The USHL and NAHL are legit, as is the top of the Premier for players of excellent talent wanting that option, but the rest is BS. The term "playing Junior" has become degraded to the point of absurdity in many lower level leagues. Most players would be far better off playing out the string in High School and moving on in life.
     
  21. BOS358

    BOS358 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Boston
    I know quite a bit about the past. I remember plenty of teams and leagues that have been consigned to history. And if I recall correctly, one trailblazer named Jack Parker, a proud CM grad, stopped recruiting from there altogether well before his retirement.

    Malden Catholic et al are considered college prep schools, yes, but when it comes to hockey, "prep" refers to members of the New England Preparatory School Athletic Conference. That's the way it's been used in the past decade and some change I've been involved with the administrative side of the sport.

    Not quite. The MIAA schools dropped off considerably prior to the founding of the USPHL. There's a reason why Jay Pandolfo went to Burlington but younger brother Mike went to St. Seb's. Same reason why Mike Ryan stayed at BC High all four years and younger brother Billy transferred to Cushing after his sophomore year, or why Chris Kreider transferred from Masco to Phillips Andover as a sophomore. Bill Hanson seemed to throw a nutty every time a player bolted early for prep or junior.

    Also, I seem to recall something called the EJHL that used to exist. The teams had affiliates in the Empire Jr. B League and the CHA (sounds a lot like the NCDC, Premier, and Elite, no?). The league had more than its fair share of direct-to-college advancements, All-Americans, and even a Hobey Baker winner to boot.

    If you think my opinion of the teams at public and Catholic schools is bad, you can PM me for my opinion on the lower-level leagues. I never claimed the lower divisions were anything resembling great, and only a few teams actually use them for development.

    Dare I ask your opinion of the NA3HL, EHL (former Atlantic Junior Hockey League), or the EHL-P? Or is it just the USPHL that you have a beef with?

    And having been involved with the defunct EJHL, don't pretend that you were fond of it when it existed. Everybody from the outside who trashed it pretends to love it now that it's gone.
     
  22. swoopster

    swoopster my "helmets"

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    MI formerly MA
    The more we talk Bos, the more I am actually beginning to like you.

    I was around for the CM and Matignon problems, I won't say where... just there. I also assisted at a Prep School in the area. They, at that time, couldn't hold a candle to the top Catholic's that we would scrimmage.

    With the cost of ice increasing, many HS programs were finding it difficult to substantiate running at the same level as in the past. Hell, my HS coach was a master at getting free ice time just so teams could play us, and he rode it for quite some time, quite often playing local college JV teams. Reduced ice time for practice was the first death knell that happened to MA Public and Catholic hockey.

    The schools that we call Prep all had their own rinks and expanded their recruiting from what used to be "blue blood" Ivy League bound elites and went after the best talent available. Heck, look what they had to offer... Even the lowliest open ended Prep rink, like Milton Academy, was a palace compared to an MDC rink with 3, one hour practices a week.

    So the landscape changed, and so has the cost to play. That is true for all who decide to go the Junior route, except for those talented enough, and lucky, to get to one of the non pay Junior leagues.

    Sad in a way, that kids from traditional working class hockey hot beds can no longer make the same advances in the game as I did...but that's economics.

    I have enjoyed the banter with you, find you knowledgable on the subject, ( and take back my comment about not knowing the past ) and again wish you the best in your endeavors. Me, I wait for the next Saginaw Spirit OHL game, ...now if you want to see some hockey!
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  23. BOS358

    BOS358 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Boston
    Right back at you, swoop. I love learning about the history of the region from the guys who were there. Surprised to hear the Catholics would have demolished the Preps back then. I know there were some powerhouse teams from the Catholics, but I just assumed they were about even. I would have loved to see a CM- BC High game when both were at their peak.

    You'll get no argument from me about the out of control costs of playing today, and unfortunately, it seems to be happening all over the country. It makes you wonder how few of the greats would have been able to play today (then again, they probably wouldn't have been able to even grow up in those neighborhoods.)

    Best wishes to you as well. Though I'm a hardcore NCAA partisan, an OHL game has been on my bucket list for ever.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"