Best head coach in Ducks history

[Rec T]

No love for Bob last year?.

/I went with Bruce. Playoffs were worthy of multiple facepalms but he was a great regular season coach

 

[Sojourn]

Oh come on now. There were many, many variables as to the magic not being there again. Kariya, Oates (!!) and Thomas not re-signing. Wasn’t Ozolinsh injuries badly?

besides, as good as they were points-wise, Fedorov and Prospal were not as advertised. They were shipped off afterwords.

That doesn't really change the results. You can't lift up Babcock for the team overachieving(in particular Giguere) and not be willing to drop him down when the team underachieves. You have to consider both. The fact that those are the only two seasons you can look at further reinforces that he just wasn't here long enough.

 

[bsu]

Babcock AINEC.

 

[Sojourn]

Of course you could point out how dominant Giguere was that year, but then again Carlyle had Giguere as well and Pronger, Niedermayer etc. All those tools that Babcock didn't have.

He did, but we don't just have a Cup run to look at for Carlyle. Which is the difference for me. Carlyle had a monster team in 2007, but he pushed all the right buttons to get it done. He still had to coach that team. He tormented opposing teams with the Pahlsson line. Made sure Pronger and Niedermayer were together against key match ups. Seemed to really use his 4th line well for energy. Leaned heavily on Getzlaf when he was breaking out, to the point where Getzlaf went from playing 15 minutes a game to almost 21. He did a lot of good things in that playoff run. People pretending otherwise are either not remembering that, or trying to rewrite history, but Carlyle was pretty masterful with that team, and the only time in the playoffs the Ducks really had any hiccups was on special teams against Detroit. They were comfortably the better team at even strength.

Babcock had a monster performance from Giguere, but he made a lot of good decisions to lean on that performance. He also deserves credit for taking advantage of what he had, and still had to coach that team too.

I'm willing to call that a wash, but the problem is if you call that a wash then Babcock has very little else to lean on. He had a good season in 2002-2003, and a sub par one in 2003-2004. There just isn't much there beyond the run that screams top coach. I actually think Boudreau has a better argument, and between Boudreau and Carlyle I give Boudreau the edge in the regular season and Carlyle the edge in the playoffs. I just value the playoffs more.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

He did, but we don't just have a Cup run to look at for Carlyle. Which is the difference for me. Carlyle had a monster team in 2007, but he pushed all the right buttons to get it done. He still had to coach that team. He tormented opposing teams with the Pahlsson line. Made sure Pronger and Niedermayer were together against key match ups. Seemed to really use his 4th line well for energy. Leaned heavily on Getzlaf when he was breaking out, to the point where Getzlaf went from playing 15 minutes a game to almost 21. He did a lot of good things in that playoff run. People pretending otherwise are either not remembering that, or trying to rewrite history, but Carlyle was pretty masterful with that team, and the only time in the playoffs the Ducks really had any hiccups was on special teams against Detroit. They were comfortably the better team at even strength.

Babcock had a monster performance from Giguere, but he made a lot of good decisions to lean on that performance. He also deserves credit for taking advantage of what he had, and still had to coach that team too.

I'm willing to call that a wash, but the problem is if you call that a wash then Babcock has very little else to lean on. He had a good season in 2002-2003, and a sub par one in 2003-2004. There just isn't much there beyond the run that screams top coach. I actually think Boudreau has a better argument, and between Boudreau and Carlyle I give Boudreau the edge in the regular season and Carlyle the edge in the playoffs. I just value the playoffs more.

Carlyle had a stacked team. I don't get why Carlyle gets credit for pushing buttons with known quantities and HOF's, but Babcock had Kariya and not much else to begin the season. You state RC tormented teams with the Pahlsson line, but that'a far more refined Pahlsson than what Babcock had in that Stanely Cup run Pahlsson (hence, two kids and a goat line).

You had Scottie and Prongs patrolling the blue line for half the game with RC. The only names I can remember on the blue line during the Stanley Cup run was Ozolinsh... I can't even remember if Olausson played in the playoffs, but he did have at the start of the season, IIRC. I'm drawing blanks. After the lockout happened, the Ducks got a huge infusion with the Twins!

I really don't think people realize how less talented that Babcock Stanley cup team was compared to what RC and BB had.

We can't compare longevity because Burke ingenuously devised a way to not retain Babock by offering a one-year deal, but gave RC a 3-year deal. We didn't make it to the Stanley Cup Finals until after we traded for Pronger, giving up a Scotty and Prongs show to get the Cup Finals. For all this praise of "pushing the right buttons" for all that talent, we only went to the Cup finals in RC's tenure once. ONCE. RC couldn't replicate it again with all that talent.

 

[Paul4587]

Carlyle had a stacked team. I don't get why Carlyle gets credit for pushing buttons with known quantities and HOF's, but Babcock had Kariya and not much else to begin the season. You state RC tormented teams with the Pahlsson line, but that'a far more refined Pahlsson than what Babcock had in that Stanely Cup run Pahlsson (hence, two kids and a goat line).

You had Scottie and Prongs patrolling the blue line for half the game with RC. The only names I can remember on the blue line during the Stanley Cup run was Ozolinsh... I can't even remember if Olausson played in the playoffs, but he did have at the start of the season, IIRC. I'm drawing blanks. After the lockout happened, the Ducks got a huge infusion with the Twins!

I really don't think people realize how less talented that Babcock Stanley cup team was compared to what RC and BB had.

We can't compare longevity because Burke ingenuously devised a way to not retain Babock by offering a one-year deal, but gave RC a 3-year deal. We didn't make it to the Stanley Cup Finals until after we traded for Pronger, giving up a Scotty and Prongs show to get the Cup Finals. For all this praise of "pushing the right buttons" for all that talent, we only went to the Cup finals in RC's tenure once. ONCE. RC couldn't replicate it again with all that talent.

Not disagreeing necessarily as I voted Babcock too but I just wanted to point out Carney was f***ing awesome back then. The guy is probably the most under appreciated Dman to wear a Ducks uniform. Salei and Havelid rounded out a not too bad top 4 to go with him and Ozo.

But yeah obviously 2007 was probably the best d core put together post lockout of any team. Three headed monster.

 

[TheStuntman]

A great question. I give Carlyle very little credit as others have mentioned he had a stacked roster in the Cup runes and had some very good roster talent in his first coaching run with the team. Babcock, other than that great Cup run wasn't here for a long time, so it's pretty tough to judge on coaching with a short sample size. Boudreau, I felt brought the best out of all the players, but at the same time had an in-prime Getzlaf and Perry. However, think of all the players that played well (Hiller, Anderson, Viktor Fasth, Belesky, B. Ryan, etc.) and after they left the Ducks, they simply did not play very well. I initially voted for Babcock, but after thinking about it for a few minutes I would change my vote to Boudreau. Yes he choked on Game 7s, but in a small sample size anyone can lose consecutive game 7s. Think of how many coin flips you get heads in a row. It's unlikely but it does happen.

 

[2faded]

we only went to the Cup finals in RC's tenure once. ONCE. RC couldn't replicate it again with all that talent.

How much of that was because Teemu and Neids sat out?

 

[Sojourn]

Carlyle had a stacked team. I don't get why Carlyle gets credit for pushing buttons with known quantities and HOF's, but Babcock had Kariya and not much else to begin the season. You state RC tormented teams with the Pahlsson line, but that'a far more refined Pahlsson than what Babcock had in that Stanely Cup run Pahlsson (hence, two kids and a goat line).

You had Scottie and Prongs patrolling the blue line for half the game with RC. The only names I can remember on the blue line during the Stanley Cup run was Ozolinsh... I can't even remember if Olausson played in the playoffs, but he did have at the start of the season, IIRC. I'm drawing blanks. After the lockout happened, the Ducks got a huge infusion with the Twins!

I really don't think people realize how less talented that Babcock Stanley cup team was compared to what RC and BB had.

We can't compare longevity because Burke ingenuously devised a way to not retain Babock by offering a one-year deal, but gave RC a 3-year deal. We didn't make it to the Stanley Cup Finals until after we traded for Pronger, giving up a Scotty and Prongs show to get the Cup Finals. For all this praise of "pushing the right buttons" for all that talent, we only went to the Cup finals in RC's tenure once. ONCE. RC couldn't replicate it again with all that talent.

I give Carlyle credit for using the team properly, which he did. Why wouldn’t I? If he had fallen short, it would be held against him. You make it sound as if winning the Cup was pre-determined. I’d like to remind you that plenty of great teams have fallen short. Detroit was a fantastic team that season and they fell short, and that was with Babcock coaching. He was actually criticized some by Detroit fans that season for failing to get his top players away from the Pahlsson line enough. The 2007 team was great, but it was not so great that it could run on autopilot to the Cup.

No, I think everyone realizes how much better the 2007 team was, but I also think you’re understating they 2003 team a bit. How can you name Ozolinsh but not Keith Carney? He was the heart and soul of that blue line. And then there is Giguere, who was an X-factor, and I don’t think you can say enough about his role on that team. You just can’t coach that. It doesn’t matter who the coach is, Giguere’s significance for that run was so important. You can give credit to Babcock for realizing what he needed to do to take advantage of Giguere’s play, but that performance was an all-time great one and that’s not on coaching.

Whether Burke was fair to Babcock or not is moot. The simple fact is that Babcock only had two years in Anaheim, and those are the years I give him credit for. I’m not going to hypothesize how he could have done, because we simply don’t know. Longevity matters to me, and Babcock’s two seasons are just not enough, especially when one season was good and one was not.

Also, you’re being pretty dismissive of the 2005-2006 team before Pronger. That team did better than expected. And as for after the 2007 season, some of that is entirely out of Carlyle’s control. He didn’t make the roster decisions; Burke did. He didn’t tell Selanne or Niedermayer to contemplate retirement. As for the rest, just because you don’t win a Cup doesn’t mean you don’t accomplish anything. If that’s the measurement, then by your own logic Babcock did nothing, and that wouldn’t be fair to him to say. I’m not sure you’re really being objective about Carlyle’s accomplishments.

 

[Terry Yake]

the 07-08 ducks just didn't have that same firepower that the 06-07 team had. not sure if that was due to trading mcdonald for dead weight or something to do with selanne/niedermayer "contemplating retirement" (burke's fault for not managing the cap very well) but i remember not feeling very good about their cup chances going into the playoffs and surely enough,they couldn't get out of round one

perhaps some of the blame can also go to carlyle's system which we all know many players simply grew tired of after some time. that could also be the reason for the slow start in 08-09 before getting hot right at the end of the season and sneaking into the playoffs

 

[snowave]

Carlyle without a doubt. BB was a great regular season coach, obviously.

Yes, Carlyle had a great roaster for several years, but there are a lot of teams you can look back on that on paper should have been great, but in reality sucked.

 

[Bergey37]

I have to give the nod to Bruce. A lot of success during his tenure, a WCF, first trips to the 2nd round since the Cup - and we were REALLY fun to watch. I never liked Randy's style of play, despite the modicum of success he had.

 

[George Binks]

WCF appearances
Bruce 1
Babcock 1
Randy 3
Stanley cups wins
Bruce 0
Babcock 0
Randy 1

 

[Terry Yake]

I have to give the nod to Bruce. A lot of success during his tenure, a WCF, first trips to the 2nd round since the Cup - and we were REALLY fun to watch. I never liked Randy's style of play, despite the modicum of success he had.

yeah absolutely. i never really noticed until RC came back for his second stint and they became so boring to watch

it was pretty much unwatchable by last season

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I went with Babcock. He did far more with far less. Yes, JS was playing out of his mind, but the defensive system was designed that way too, to where a lot of shots wouldn't be high danger shots. We had to play like that because we didn't have talent. It was a magical season all around. Who knew the two kids and a goat line would be that special (Chistov, Pahlsson, and Stevie Thomas)?! The following year, it was a different team. No more Kariya as he left us at the alter to pursue his own hockey dreams. Chistov didn't put in more work in the off-season. It just didn't click even though we signed Fedorov and Prospal. Maybe it was a Stanley Cup hangover?

With Carlyle, he had a stacked team and a blue line that didn't need coaching. But even Carlyle's teams began to fade to the point he got fired twice because of it.

Anaheim Babcock was a good coach for us. Outside-of-Anaheim Babcock is a different coach... maybe the snub that Burke gave him just irked him too much? I have no idea, but not the same coach he was in Anaheim. Maybe we need to isolate Anahiem Babcock from outside-of-Anaheim Babcock in this discussion.

We've been blessed with very good netminders since the acquisition of JS. When we won the cup, JS didn't carry us that much as our team was stacked. But for other coaches such as Bruce, RC, and the Doctor, why weren't they able to tap into that goalie skills despite having more talent on the team than Bobcock did? I don't think Babcock gets enough credit to know who his bread and butter was as well as designing a scheme to maximize it. Kariya wasn't the hero in the playoffs, but even Kariya played his part as a supporting role for JS. It was just a magical year, that 10th season of the Ducks' existence.

I remember fondly how Ozolinsh fumbled the puck across the ice heading towards Marty and then Marty somehow stumbled on a easy stop on a puck, but it got past him for a goal. Sheer magic. Too bad we lost.

Well then that was a failure. They gave up tons of great chances, that'll happen when you're giving up 40 shots a game.

It's not just Babcock, a lot of guys off that team get lionized for obvious reasons. I don't think it's as bad for him as it is for, say, Chistov, but I don't know how much I'm caping for a coach that saw his teams get dominated more often than not.

I also don't think this is a conversation anyone has if Babcock doesn't go on to be considered the best coach in the league for as long as he did. Which is fair, in a way, but not really what the question is.

 

[Paul4587]

WCF appearances
Bruce 1
Babcock 1
Randy 3
Stanley cups wins
Bruce 0
Babcock 0
Randy 1

Also worth noting

overall playoff series W/L records

Babcock 3-1
Carlyle 10-6
BB 3-4

game 6 and 7 record:
Babcock 2-1
Carlyle 6-5
BB 1-7

That 1-7 really stands out.

 

[AngelDuck]

I’m surprised this isn’t Carlyle in a land slide. Interesting poll.

I think the recency bias of the way things ended recently with Randy is clouding some people. They won a lot of games and a lot of big games with him behind the bench.

And say what you want about RC having stacked teams, BB also had some pretty damn good rosters. The rosters in 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 should have gone farther than they did

 

[Terry Yake]

i find babcock to be an extremely overrated HC

his best coaching job was 02-03. aside from that, he took two stacked detroit teams to the SCF and won a cup

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

No one's close to what Carlyle did here overall. Babcock and Boudreau each probably put together better individual seasons, I'd say 3 of our top 4 seasons were not coached by Carlyle, but that's more of a quirk than something meaningful.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Kind of my favorite things about carlyle was his use of trick plays. Mainly the one where cogliano would line up on the left side of the face off dot then if we won the draw he would bolt for the bench and rakell would hop over the boards behind the defense and bust out on the breakaway. It only worked s couple times but it was the little hey why the hell not plays