Best drafting team in the NHL

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Debrincat93

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Fuhr86 said:
Ya, did not think it would be fair to Ottawa to talk about a teams drafting record before the Sens enterd the league. Compare the teams when Ottawa became a team in 1992, Its not Ottawas fault they wont around before then to compare drafting records.

Also I guess Edmonton is an outstanding drafting team because they drafted Anderson,Coffey,Fuhr,Lowe,Messier and Tikkanen

then why did you incluce lidstrom... thats the only reason i included everyone else :teach:
 

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zetterberg40 said:
then why did you incluce lidstrom... thats the only reason i included everyone else :teach:

Because Lidstom still plays for Detroit and he is an elite defenseman in the league. I was even going to incude Yzerman but figured going back to 1984 would be to far back.
 

Debrincat93

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Fuhr86 said:
Because Lidstom still plays for Detroit and he is an elite defenseman in the league. I was even going to incude Yzerman but figured going back to 1984 would be to far back.

well hossa doesnt play for ott anymore :dunno:

and the wings also drafted franzen whos been adding solid skill, gritty guy, and size to our lineup, on paper he doesnt show it but hes got more value then it shows
 

selvirino

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champben2002 said:
If the Devils count Rafalski, then the Sens can basically count Chara, since he was considered to be basically worthless until being a throw-in in the Yashin trade. Sullivan was taken over a decade ago. Outside of that they have a couple semi-big names. Nothing like a Havlat or Hossa. Most of their team was compiled in the late 80s early 90s, like Brodeur, Neids and Steven, and very little of the team is from recent drafting.

Also again Zorin, none of the players should be counted since none of them have proven themselves in the NHL. Rocking minor leugues is not the same as playing in the NHL, so why should they be counted?

Chara led the league in hits *before* the Yashin trade.
 

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ukyo said:
In terms of drafting goaltenders San Jose should be mentioned. Not so much their forwards or defensemen though...

Stuart, Rathje, Ozolinsh, Ragnarsson, Hannan: That's a impressive group right there and all them are/ were TOP 4 Dman in NHL.
 

Pangu

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Fish on The Sand said:
if you would take the 2nd set you must not be very smart or really dislike winning.
I would take the second group over the first. Hossa and Havlat are the best two players on that list. Volchenkov and Gleason will both be good top 4 Dmen.
 

Chimaera

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Although this is a 'prospects' forum, (and website) I think qualifications on who drafts well and who doesn't needs be based on a larger spectrum than just going back to 2002.

Players and prospects from 2002 are just starting to enter the NHL (beyond stud first rounders) and make an identity.

If you want to have an honest realistic discussion on who drafts well, you need to analyze farther back than 2002 and throw out the last 2-3 drafts. Because who really knows who is going to pan out, and who will bust?
 

Phanuthier*

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speztacular said:
How does the drafting system work. It seems really hard. Like for instance if a team has they're eyes on a player in the 3rd and let's say they don't pick him up but some earlier team does, then how do they know what to select, do they have bios and scouting reports on every single player to finally make a decision. It seems like a tought job, and they're only given like a few minutes to make a decision that could cost them a good pick.

I was thinking that they have a list of players that they're willing to take, rank them, and then don't choose anything else but them, unless some miracle arrises, like meszaros by ottawa in 2003.
Teams have full time scouts in every single league, from the CHL down to BCHL, across the pond in RSL and SEL ect. Then, alot they may hire part-time freelance scouts and many subscribe to prospect publications. If there's a good player in god knows where (ie. Slovania, Kopitar) then they may send one of their scouts over there to check it out.

A couple times a year, all the scouts will get together, each of them having a book on a player ect and they will rank them. At the draft, they merely just follow a list they have and how they are ranked, enabling them to maybe target a player who has fallan a bit.

Specifically speaking, teams will have specific players they want, and while not listing them No 1 or 2, maybe move up or down on whoever they want.

Couple examples...

2003, the Flames had 2 names with stars beside them, Dion Phaneuf and Mike Richards, They had Phaneuf pegged in the 7-9 range, and Richards in the middle teens. Had Phaneuf been taken earlier (and so had Coburn and Suter) then its well known that the Flames were looking to drop down a couple picks and take Mike Richards. For the next round, the Flames were targetting Tim Ramholt, and got him. It is believed that the Oilers tried to move up to the No 6 position (SJ) to take one of the defenseman, knowing Nash, Atl and Calgary were going to take the 3 defenseman, but they failed. There was a rumour that the Flames were/had (?) made a under the table move with SJ for SJ taking Milan Michalek, so the Flames could take 1 of the 3 defenseman.

Another example, the year after (?) the Flames were targetting Kyle Chipcura and were picking at No 19. When Chipchura was taken, the next guy on the Flames list was Kris Chucko, and since he was ranked alot later, the Flames moved down to take him; however, they knew the Oilers were targetting Chucko too, so they had to make sure they were ahead of him. At the time (when they had the No 19 pick) the Flames were specifically looking at 2 players, Travis Zajec and Kris Chucko, so they figured dropping down 7 spots would ok, even if one of them was taken. It would have been interesting to see, if both players were available, who would they take? (eh Jason? ;)) In the same draft, the Flames were specifically targetting a guy in Round 2, and had moved picks (dropping 19 to 26, taking Chucko) to acquire a 2nd round pick to get their guy. However, some other team had taken him, and there weren't many other guys in that range that interested the Flames, so they flipped their 2nd rounder for a 3rd, 5th and 6th rounder.
 

ukyo

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Kärppä32 said:
Stuart, Rathje, Ozolinsh, Ragnarsson, Hannan: That's a impressive group right there and all them are/ were TOP 4 Dman in NHL.

I agree that they are all productive defensemen, but given their draft positions I'd say that the Sharks did par at best. Excluding the first two rounds, only Rags at #99 was pretty good (although jury is still out on Ehrhoff and Fahey).

However, compare that to say the Kings:
Blake #70
Zhitnik #81
Visnovsky #118
Timonen #250

Or even the Rangers:
Miller #88
Zubov #85
Zidlicky #176
Johnsson #286
 

Rand

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I'm not sure if they've been mentioned but I've long felt the Isles have done a very good job in drafting.
Not the best by any means, but far far better then their reputed to be.
Alas Mad Mike has a fondness for dumping everyone of value.

On the other hand... I'm convinced Chicago has no scouting department. it's incredibly how close their drafting is over the years to the CCS list.
Sometimes I swear they don't even look at the players, they just grab the next person up on CSS ratings.
 

The Nemesis

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Hasbro said:
The Sharks have a knack for picking Germans too.
That's because Germans are the next wave ;)

I remember during the WJCs TSN had a graphic saying that there were currently something like 13 German players and prospects in the NHL and various other levels, and the Sharks have something like 7 of them.
 

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
Who are these gems that Detroit uncover in the 1st round?

The love for Detroit in this thread is astounding.
I'm a Wings fan, and I've gotta say that we had some dog drafts.

Okay we had two HUGE drafts.
1983 had some winning picks
4 C Steve Yzerman
25 R Lane Lambert
46 L Bob Probert
68 D Dave Korol
86 L Petr Klima
88 R Joey Kocur
106 G Chris Pusey
126 Bob Pierson
146 Craig Butz
166 D Dave Sikorski
186 L Stu Grimson
206 Jeff Frank
226 Chuck Chiatto
Yzerman and some of the games best fighters.

And 1989 might be the best draft of any team of alltime

11 C Mike Sillinger
32 D Bob Boughner
53 D Nicklas Lidstrom
74 C Sergei Fedorov
95 C Shawn McCosh
116 R Dallas Drake
137 D Scott Zygulski
158 D Andy Suhy
179 Bob Jones
200 D Greg Bignell
204 L Rick Judson
221 D Vladimir Konstantinov
242 R Joe Frederick
246 G Jason Glickman

Fedorov/Lidstrom are HOFers. Konstantinov was great. Sillinger Drake and Boughner have had long, succesful careers.

But damn, we had some Dog Drafts between, say 84-98
Our first round picks have been spectacular flops in some cases.
I'll rank them on a 5 star basis, based somewhat on the draft position

83 Yzerman 4th *****
84 Shawn Burr 7th overall ** (decent career, but not for a 7th overall all guy)
85 Brent Fedyk 8th overall *
86 Joe Murphy 1st overall *
87 Yves Racine 11th Overall *
88 Kory Kocur 17th Overall ZERO STARS
89 Mike Sillinger 11th Overall **1/2
90 Keith Primeau 3rd Overall ***1/2 (Always hurt cause Jagr drafted right after him. Can you imagine what the Wings would have looked like had they drafted Jagr???)
91 Martin Lapointe 10th Overall *** (okay, but Kovy and Naslund and Tkachuck were there)
92 Curtis Bowen 22nd Overall ZERO STARS
93 Anders Eriksson 22nd overall **
94 Yan Gulobovsky 23rd Overall ZERO STARS
95 Maxim Kuznetsov 25th Overal 1/2
96 Jesse Wallin 26th Overall ZERO STARS
97 TRADE
98 Jiri Fischer 25th Overall ***1/2 (good pick late in first)
99 TRADE
00 Kronwall 29th Overall ***1/2 (ditto)
01 TRADE
02 TRADE
03 TRADE
04 TRADE
05 Jakub Kindl 19th Overall (I'd give this pick ***1/2 stars, but it's way too early)

IMO, 93-97 is one of the worst drafting periods by any team, anywhere. Tomas Holmstrom and Matthieu Dandenault managed to make it out, but otherwise, it's bad.

Since 98, when the team drafted Fischer and Datsyuk, it's become apparent that our Euro scouting, led by Hakan Andersson, is among the best in the business. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Grigorenko, Hudler, Filppula, Fleischmann, and even older guys like Bykov and Franzen.

Only recently has our North American scouting begun finding players. Howard, Quincey, Oulahen, McGrath, Haskins, and now Helm and May and Abdelkader seem like legit prospects. Maybe not worldbeaters all, but still. Better than Curtis Bowen and Kory Kocur
 

Kafka

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John Vanbiesbrouck said:
Especially getting Zetterberg & Datsyuk in late rounds, what was it like 6th & 7th?

I'm liking Colorado's picks, Svatos @ 227th in 2001, and they had a damn good 2005 draft: Stoa, Stastny, Hensick, Macias.

That only prooves you how confident they were by picking those guys....
 

KH1

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I could actually make an excellent homer arguement for the Islanders. If you just look at their draft record over the last decade they have picked as much NHL talent as any team in hockey. Their problems is that stars like Bertuzzi, McCabe, Redden and Luongo aren't on the team anymore :shakehead

They have also gotten great value out late round picks, with Zdeno Chara (56), Dick Tarnstrom (272), Mattias Weinhandl (78), Radek Martinek (228) and most recently Chris Campoli (227.)
 

A Good Flying Bird*

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Kafka said:
That only prooves you how confident they were by picking those guys....


Sort of. Sort of not.

Sometimes, a scout knows that nobody knows about his guy.
So he tells the GM to save the card for later.
 
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