Best Coach in the World

[Cassano]

Mourinho got credit for his work at Porto. Even though that's a privileged top job domestically, it was already a tall order to be competitive in European competition - the CL in particular - in the early 2000s for a team like that. Pep never even stooped that low, his clubs read like the list of clubs a 12 year old manages on FIFA manager mode.

I would also argue getting a Treble with that old ass Inter team is more impressive than any Treble in recent memory.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I would also argue getting a Treble with that old ass Inter team is more impressive than any Treble in recent memory.

Absolutely. That was a great achievement with that club.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Mourinho has long been viewed more negatively here than in most other circles in my experience because of his playing style. I remember a poll here around 2013 when he came behind both Guardiola and Klopp.

 

[les Habs]

Mourinho got credit for his work at Porto. Even though that's a privileged top job domestically, it was already a tall order to be competitive in European competition - the CL in particular - in the early 2000s for a team like that. Pep never even stooped that low, his clubs read like the list of clubs a 12 year old manages on FIFA manager mode.

LOL. For starters the year Porto won the CL was a weak CL year. Then you've got the ref scandals from Portugal while Mourinho was there which I think were even caught on tape.

Portuguese football champions shaken by corruption charges

Looking later on Mourinho's Chelsea spent like City do nowadays. His Madrid side was crazy expensive as he inherited Ronaldo, Bale, etc. When he was at Inter it was immediately after Calciopoli and he had almost no competition on top of the refs giving them the CL Semifinal win or they'd never have won it and Barça surely would have otherwise.

I mean that bolded... to actually post something like that while referencing Mourinho.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Klopp won back-to-back Bundesliga titles having spent no more than 5.5M€ on any one player. The second was a short-lived single season Bundesliga points record. Dortmund's total expenditures were only 9th highest in the Bundesliga in his first four seasons during which he built them from a 13th place finish the season before to back-to-back titles in year 4. He made a Champions League final the next season after spending 17M€ on Reus (still had a positive net transfer balance due to other sales). The answer is clearly yes, actually. Barca fans can talk about Guardiola's work turning overlooked players into stars in 2008 but Klopp has done that far, far more in his career.

From where I'm sitting barca fans are not undercutting Klopps achievements but defending Pep's. From those claim he got lucky, inherited titles and amazing teams. Sooo

 

[les Habs]

I would also argue getting a Treble with that old ass Inter team is more impressive than any Treble in recent memory.

It really isn't when you consider how it went down and the circumstances under which it happened.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

LOL. For starters the year Porto won the CL was a weak CL year. Then you've got the ref scandals from Portugal while Mourinho was there which I think were even caught on tape.

Portuguese football champions shaken by corruption charges

Looking later on Mourinho's Chelsea spent like City do nowadays. His Madrid side was crazy expensive as he inherited Ronaldo, Bale, etc. When he was at Inter it was immediately after Calciopoli and he had almost no competition on top of the refs giving them the CL Semifinal win or they'd never have won it and Barça surely would have otherwise.

I mean that bolded... to actually post something like that while referencing Mourinho.

Mourinho managed international elite teams after proving his worth at Leiria and Porto. That's kinda how the management path of an up and comer works. Klopp started at Mainz then took Dortmund then Liverpool. It's progression. Pep has managed 3 of the richest clubs in world football *exclusively*.

I will think more of him if he decides to 'slum' it and take over at a club like Gladbach or Everton with his next move. Of course, that's about as likely as Mourinho popping up at Plymouth Argyle.

 

[les Habs]

Mourinho managed international elite teams after proving his worth at Leiria and Porto. That's kinda how the management path of an up and comer works. Klopp started at Mainz then took Dortmund then Liverpool. It's progression. Pep has managed 3 of the richest clubs in world football *exclusively*.

I will think more of him if he decides to 'slum' it and take over at a club like Gladbach or Everton with his next move. Of course, that's about as likely as Mourinho popping up at Plymouth Argyle.

Guardiola managed Barça B for a season and got them promoted. It's only happpened once since then. To go from managing Barça B to winning six of six trophies the following season speaks for itself.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Well this has devolved into the dumbest argument.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Guardiola managed Barça B for a season and got them promoted. It's only happpened once since then. To go from managing Barça B to winning six of six trophies the following season speaks for itself.

Coaching the Barca reserve/U23 team in a league full of mickey mouse teams isn't exactly the same as managing a totally different, smaller club with all the concerns that come with that.

 

[Gecklund]

Do you think he’d have made Mainz champions?

I’m with Klopp as it says currently. Klopp has been better with fewer resources and a team most argued before that was less talented than City’s crew.

Career would be tougher to pick.

Did Pep manage Mainz? You can’t expect someone to do something if they never had the opportunity. Also Klopp didn’t make them champions either. I agree that Klopp has been better in recent years but that’s not all that matters to me.

 

[les Habs]

Coaching the Barca reserve/U23 team in a league full of mickey mouse teams isn't exactly the same as managing a totally different, smaller club with all the concerns that come with that.

You talked about "proving worth" and "up and comer", cited Porto and Mainz for f***'s sake and now you're writing off managing Barça B as Guardiola's starting point? Why am I not surprised? Like I said, the B team's been promoted once since he got them promoted. Furthermore he did it in the span of a year. And there are different concerns that Guardiola would have to deal with managing a B team that the manager of first team wouldn't have to deal with.

 

[YNWA14]

Did Pep manage Mainz? You can’t expect someone to do something if they never had the opportunity. Also Klopp didn’t make them champions either. I agree that Klopp has been better in recent years but that’s not all that matters to me.

Not sure that I said I expected it, but what Klopp has shown with teams that weren't perennial favourites is just as impressive as what he's done with an elite squad in what he has at Liverpool now. To me that kind of flexibility and different level of accomplishments is mighty impressive.

 

[Albatros]

LOL. For starters the year Porto won the CL was a weak CL year.

What makes it a weak CL year? That perennial favorites did not do so well? Porto defeating Manchester United and Monaco defeating Real Madrid is a testament to their strength rather than weakness. If it was a weak year one of the favorites should have won it easily.

 

[Evilo]

LOL. For starters the year Porto won the CL was a weak CL year.

As much as I hate Mourinho, I disagree with that bolded part.
They had a somewhat tough group and came out of it then eliminated United. then Lyon which was a seriously good CL contender back then Deportivo, which was also a very good team that had eliminated both Juve and Milan and then Monaco who had beaten new riches Chelsea and Real's galacticos (Zidane, Ronaldo and all).
The final was dull because Monaco's entire team was lost under the pressure and their captain went out after 15 minutes off an injury.
But there's no denying it was a great achievement.

Mourinho also beat some strong Chelsea teams, there's no denying that, and one way to do it was spend like crazy. He went crazy on Essien, Drogba and others. Drogba here was seen a as a huge signing failure back then, on this forum. After his first season people were claiming he sucked and wasn't PL quality (I'm dead serious).
The overpayment for both was crazy at the time though.
After his Chelsea split, to me, it all went downhill for him. His tactics became more and more negative and his behaviour totally unacceptable. His Inter tenure is way overrated. If the ref had known what an offside was, he wouldn't have reached the final. His Real tenure is IMO a huge blackeye to Real, which was in fact the sentiment of many old Real stars.

To me, Mourinho has lost it since 2007. He's nowhere near a top 3 coach since then. And most likely not a top 10 coach since 2010.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

That 08-09 Barca team was more talented than any team Ferguson had, so I think it is attainable. It may be difficult without the refs like Howard Webb and Fergie Time staying in PL though.

I think Mr. Wenger has Barca DNA. If he had the resources, he would play the Barca way I'd imagine.

No.
Busquets had only been playing for the B team, same for Pedro.
Xavi was a very good player but far from the top 3 midfielder he became (Pep was a big part in that).

Pep's work at Barça is being underrated.

You guys don't remember what had happened the previous year, with a washed up Ronaldinho, Deco, etc
Finishing almost 20 points behind Madrid including being raped 4-1 by them.

The way the club transformed was unbelievable and Pep was the catalyst

 

[Albatros]

You guys don't remember what had happened the previous year, with a washed up Ronaldinho, Deco, etc
Finishing almost 20 points behind Madrid including being raped 4-1 by them.

The way the club transformed was unbelievable and Pep was the catalyst

The club also greatly increased spending though, resources available to Guardiola were not available to his predecessors.

 

[Stray Wasp]

He went crazy on Essien, Drogba and others. Drogba here was seen a as a huge signing failure back then, on this forum. After his first season people were claiming he sucked and wasn't PL quality (I'm dead serious).

I wasn't hanging around here back then, however I recall there was a general perception in England that Drogba's first year fell below expectations.

It didn't help that expectations were sky-high following his mighty performances against English teams in the 2003-4 UEFA Cup.

(I just did a check on that Marseille 2003-4 side, and some of the names brought back interesting memories, not least Mido and Dmitri Sytchev. And apparently, there was a midfielder in the squad whose surname was Merlin. If only he could have made it as a star in the EPL, tabloid sub editors would have gone into thralls of ecstasy.)

 

[East Coast Bias]

Klopp right now based on form.

I think Pep has been disappointing at City- though as a United fan, I'm not disappointed! 2 league titles in 4 years. Some rough CL exists - blew a first leg league against Monaco, get beat up by Liverpool, and blew it against Spurs. I don't know how City fans feel but when he was hired I felt certain they'd just walk the league until he'd had enough.

But overall, Pep's full career is being underrated. As others have said - he took over a team that has 67 points the season before. Completely changed how they played, integrated new players and won a treble in his first season. He also laid the foundation for Spain to the 2010 WC (7 Barcelona starters).

Klopp was given years to develop at both Dortmund and Liverpool (5/6th place finishes at Dortmund to start, and 8/4/4th at Liverpool). Which is fine - but don't discount how hard it is to move into new clubs with a roster of players with several different managers, and immediately win. It's not easy.

 

[Cassano]

Where would you guys rank Zidane? Every year he's been with Madrid, he's delivered the Champions League.

The only season he didn't was when he re-joined after they were eliminated by Ajax last season under Solari.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Where would you guys rank Zidane? Every year he's been with Madrid, he's delivered the Champions League.

The only season he didn't was when he re-joined after they were eliminated by Ajax last season under Solari.

lool

 

[Gecklund]

Not sure that I said I expected it, but what Klopp has shown with teams that weren't perennial favourites is just as impressive as what he's done with an elite squad in what he has at Liverpool now. To me that kind of flexibility and different level of accomplishments is mighty impressive.

I agree that it’s very impressive. If Klopp can win a few more titles then I think he will surpass Pep but it’s hard to argue with the number of trophies and titles that Pep has regardless of team level. There’s so many times in all sports where one team seems like the clear favorites but still don’t win the final trophy.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I agree that it’s very impressive. If Klopp can win a few more titles then I think he will surpass Pep but it’s hard to argue with the number of trophies and titles that Pep has regardless of team level. There’s so many times in all sports where one team seems like the clear favorites but still don’t win the final trophy.

Yup, say what you will about City spending but there are others who spent too and fell on their faces.

 

[Gecklund]

Yup, say what you will about City spending but there are others who spent too and fell on their faces.

I feel like this is directed at United and I mean you’re not wrong but I’m going to pretend you’re talking about Arsenal and Spurs.

 

[YNWA14]

Yup, say what you will about City spending but there are others who spent too and fell on their faces.

There are definitely teams that have spent a lot and not done a lot with it. Liverpool has done it before. That said those teams already had a wealth of talent. Especially Barca and Bayern, but even City was full of top talents like Aguero, Silva, de Bruyne, Sterling, Kompany, Fernandinho, etc.

Now again, I'm not trying to say that Pep isn't a great coach, or even one of the top 2-3 in the world. He absolutely is. I was just saying that titles aren't the only measure of a great coach especially when considering the opportunity and talent they've had.