Berra vs Bishop...How/why the heck did you give that scrub a look over Berra?

BlueDream

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Aug 30, 2011
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It was an upset when Elliott beat out Bishop out of camp.

I think Elliott could have returned more than a pending UFA Ben Bishop who the world knew wouldn't re-sign.

I was pretty torn on Allen vs. Bishop as I like both of them and think both will be solid starters in the NHL.
No, Elliott was definitely favored to be the one to stick.

Otherwise he wouldn't be here. Reports were that they played evenly throughout training camp, but Elliott got the nod because of his experience. That was the case all along. Not an upset.
 

illninofan*

Guest
Still say we made a mistake.

Bishop is better, and yes I'm going to be that guy in this topic.
 

DeuceNine

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Please. :amazed: Elliott was dumped twice by Ottawa then Colorado before signing here to be Halak's BACKUP after Armstrong couldn't get Mike Smith to sign here to be Halak's backup. One thing I am certain of, Elliott will never win a cup as a starter to fill in due to injury. As for the spring of 2011, we will never know but we do know Elliott sucked.

Your memory is quite selective.

Two bad teams made Elliott a scapegoat -- nothing new there. He signed here, proceeded to help win a Jennings and had to play behind a team that Spring that suddenly couldn't score.

And of course he was going to be Halak's backup. There was too much hype and fanfare around the Halak signing for any other scenario to play out. Had we signed Smith, he's be our starter today but that was unrealistic.
 

SteenMachine

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Bishop has to win something besides a starting role in Florida before he's really able to be judged against other goalies. At the end of the season if he still has really strong stats and can make an impact in the playoffs it's a totally different story. However a lot of people start strong until the opposition finds their weaknesses and exploits them enough to limit that player's hot start to what it was.
 

intangible

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Apr 28, 2010
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Still say we made a mistake.

Bishop is better, and yes I'm going to be that guy in this topic.

Agreed. Halak hasn't been a goalie that steals the Blues a game. I'd say Halak hasn't been that goalie since his playoff run for the Habs. Since then he's put up good numbers, but has been matched by his backup.

I don't necessarily see Bishop in that light, either, but at least he's cheaper. I would much rather have Halak's salary off the books, Bishop in net, and have that money left over to go after someone better than Roy or Morrow.
 

Falco Lombardi

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Nov 17, 2011
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No, Elliott was definitely favored to be the one to stick.

Otherwise he wouldn't be here. Reports were that they played evenly throughout training camp, but Elliott got the nod because of his experience. That was the case all along. Not an upset.

I don't remember what it was like here (not even sure I had joined yet actually lol) but I remember there being no expectation of Elliott being anything other than someone to push Bishop until Halak got hurt.

I could be remembering wrong though.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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He was brought in to compete with Bishop. They both played comparably and Elliott has the experience factor. Elliott had a 2-way contract, so it's not like he came in with the expectation of making the team, the experience was just a tie-breaker.
 

DeuceNine

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Bishop has to win something besides a starting role in Florida before he's really able to be judged against other goalies.

Geography of the team doesn't indicate it's will nor ability to win. Please explain.

At the end of the season if he still has really strong stats and can make an impact in the playoffs it's a totally different story. However a lot of people start strong until the opposition finds their weaknesses and exploits them enough to limit that player's hot start to what it was.

Bishop has the advantage of not only being large, but smart and relatively technically sound. Things like taking away the upper portion of the net on a simple butterfly to extending a pad a few inches more than most other goalies will mask many deficiencies. Bishop seems however to be juiced by his new role and frankly, if you're concerned about which city he plays in, remember he did quite well for Ottawa last year prior to being moved.

They have a good goalie down there. May not be Rinne or Smith, but he's solid for their team. W/L and personal stats don't lie.
 
Apr 30, 2012
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Geography of the team doesn't indicate it's will nor ability to win. Please explain.

I might be going out on a limb here, but I think he's rightfully inferring that the goalies he had to beat out down there weren't very good. Granted, he still has played well but he didn't have much competition.
 

DeuceNine

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I might be going out on a limb here, but I think he's rightfully inferring that the goalies he had to beat out down there weren't very good. Granted, he still has played well but he didn't have much competition.

Agreed. However, even if someone won the job ahead of him, stats tend to even out and there's a good chance he'd still be putting up better numbers. Remember also that Lindback is no slouch, big as well and still wasn't producing at the same level. He was pretty darn good for Nashville.

After all, you can't fault a guy for who management decides to put on the team with you.
 

Multimoodia

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Nov 6, 2010
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At the end of the season if he still has really strong stats and can make an impact in the playoffs it's a totally different story.
Agreed, knighting or decrying Bishop at this point is fallacy. He does look very good though.

However a lot of people start strong until the opposition finds their weaknesses and exploits them enough to limit that player's hot start to what it was.

The advantage Bishop has is that he is technically sound and understands enough of his size to play the angles very well. Bishop always did have at least somewhat of an understanding, his issue was that he had difficulty controlling pucks when he made kick-saves. The real issue was difficulty in adapting a traditional butterfly goalie style for a player whose size makes him non-traditional.
I had stated for many years (before I joined this board due to some complications with a previous one) that Bishop would be a very good goaltender if someone could figure out how to adapt the traditional style to his natural advantages. Watching him that last year he was here you could see things beginning to click and he was subtly adjusting his style. This has been given another step forward in Ottawa and Tampa as he finds more and more what works and what does not.

This was why, while I appreciated what Brian Elliott did for the Blues and admit I was wrong for saying so, I thought the Blues made a tremendous mistake going with Elliott over Bishop. Elliott was and always was going to be (and perhaps still is...) a reactionary goalie. More often than a technically proficient goalie, he is going to have days when nothing can get by him and days when the Hanson brothers could score a hat-trick each in the first period.

Bishop strikes me as a goaltender that is going to be near or in the top half of starters for some time. Maybe not starting this year, but in the next couple.
 

SteenMachine

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Oct 19, 2008
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Geography of the team doesn't indicate it's will nor ability to win. Please explain.



Bishop has the advantage of not only being large, but smart and relatively technically sound. Things like taking away the upper portion of the net on a simple butterfly to extending a pad a few inches more than most other goalies will mask many deficiencies. Bishop seems however to be juiced by his new role and frankly, if you're concerned about which city he plays in, remember he did quite well for Ottawa last year prior to being moved.

They have a good goalie down there. May not be Rinne or Smith, but he's solid for their team. W/L and personal stats don't lie.

Goalies don't last long in Florida on either team, they've been perpetually disappointing after a hot start or hot season raising everyone's expectations. I mean you could say all the same things about Dubnyk looking above average prior to completely collapsing into everyone's crude stereotype of the "real" him.
 
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Multimoodia

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Nov 6, 2010
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Goalies don't last long in Florida on either team,

Er...while I can agree the Lightning have been a habitual offender of that particular truth, that would be wrong when referring to the Panthers.

Discounting the past couple of years where they have tried to simply get by, the Panthers goalies have been:

Luongo (until 2006)
Belfour's re-animated corpse (for a year)
Vokoun (07-12)

Tampa though...they have been simply trying to get by for some time. We shall see if Lindback or Bishop is the answer...although Bishop has definitely given them far above their usual level of play.
 

JustOneB4IDie

Duel Cancer Survivor
Jan 31, 2011
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Your memory is quite selective.

Two bad teams made Elliott a scapegoat -- nothing new there. He signed here, proceeded to help win a Jennings and had to play behind a team that Spring that suddenly couldn't score.

And of course he was going to be Halak's backup. There was too much hype and fanfare around the Halak signing for any other scenario to play out. Had we signed Smith, he's be our starter today but that was unrealistic.

Funny thing is Armstrong DID want Smith over Elliott but Smith signed with Phoenix instead because he was handed the starter's job in Phoenix so we will never know how deep a run the Blues could have had in 2011 with Smith being the backup here.
 

Captain Creampuff

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Sep 10, 2012
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Ben Bishop continues to suck it up beating the 1st place team in the NHL and now with a 13-2-0 record 1.96 GAA and .932 Sv% all without Stamkos. I guess OP was right.
 

Louie the Blue

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Jul 27, 2010
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Ben Bishop continues to suck it up beating the 1st place team in the NHL and now with a 13-2-0 record 1.96 GAA and .932 Sv% all without Stamkos. I guess OP was right.

While I agree Bishop's been stellar, Stamkos has only missed 1 or 2 games.
 

DeuceNine

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Goalies don't last long in Florida on either team, they've been perpetually disappointing after a hot start or hot season raising everyone's expectations.

So is this the goalie's fault or the teams? At some point credit is due to the goalies even if eventually the team collapses in front of them. In neither case other than once or twice in the past decade has either TEAM been a would-be contender if not for the goaltending failing them.

I mean you could say all the same things about Dubnyk looking above average prior to completely collapsing into everyone's crude stereotype of the "real" him.

Edmonton is one of the more bi-polar teams in the NHL. Their goalies are no different, and I think every aspect of that organization is unique in their ability to over and under-achieve.
 
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DeuceNine

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Funny thing is Armstrong DID want Smith over Elliott but Smith signed with Phoenix instead because he was handed the starter's job in Phoenix so we will never know how deep a run the Blues could have had in 2011 with Smith being the backup here.

Oh I'm sure he did.:nod: My point about it being unrealistic is Smith was holding on, IMO, to be guaranteed a spot as #1. He'd come here and automatically be behind Halak. You're right though about what he might have done instead of Elliott, especially since Smith can actually put the puck into open nets on occasion.:sarcasm:
 

Halak Ness Monster

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Nov 11, 2010
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Yeah let's just forget about how good Elliott was after we traded Bishop.

How dare Armstrong not see this coming a couple years down the road like everyone on this site thinks they did.

Outside of a horrible start to last season(and average-ish play in the playoffs), Elliott has been really good for the Blues. He is now 40-18-6 in his time in St. Louis.

Obviously keeping Bishop would have been better for the Blues going forward after this season but Elliott has done a very good job as the Blues backup.

We aren't even in bad shape for the future with Jake Allen playing well in the NHL last year and playing extremely well in the AHL this season. So the Blues still have a young goalie of the future that can take one of jobs in net next year.
 

BuLLeT1291

Registered User
Dec 16, 2010
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So anyways I am starting this thread because I am shocked that Ben Bishop is not only still playing pro hockey, but on an NHL roster, and even played (horribly of course) for the US at the WCs last year. He is soooooooooo bad.

And I am not wrong about Berra if Calgary wanted him in the J Bo deal the guys a great goalie Bishop is total trash and the worst goalie on NHL rosters right now hands down.

We are talking about the same Ben Bishop right?

18-5 with a 1.96 GAA and a .934 SV%, 3 SHO might I add.

Do you even watch hockey bro?
 

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