News Article: Bergevin Speaks to NHL network

Schwang

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May 6, 2002
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Every ****ing team wants to "build from the draft".. Even the Pens who trade alot of picks knows they need an influx of young guys on ELCs to remain competitive.

What a ****ing plan..
One thing that upsets me about the pens, is that if they weren’t able to draft Crosby and Malkin, they most likely wouldn’t be in the position they’re in. Having guys like that carry your team for years allows you to build up your prospects and you can afford to trade them away to get a guy like Kessel.
They tanked at the right time and got lucky. I don’t consider them a great organization despite their record
 

isthatso

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Jan 20, 2017
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One thing that upsets me about the pens, is that if they weren’t able to draft Crosby and Malkin, they most likely wouldn’t be in the position they’re in. Having guys like that carry your team for years allows you to build up your prospects and you can afford to trade them away to get a guy like Kessel.
They tanked at the right time and got lucky. I don’t consider them a great organization despite their record

Luck is a big part of the game. If not them, who would be a ''great'' organization according to your standards? And what would those standards be? Just curious.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Lol, no.

There's maybe a half a dozen posters here who could do a better job then MB and another half a dozen who are smart enough to hire really competent people and let them make the decisions. I'm not a fan of MB but I've seen how bad a lot of decisions that were 'pure genius' around here at the time turned out to be not so brilliant as time went by.

How hard is it really to make a team demonstrably worse over a 6 year span? That would be equivalent to what Bergevin has done.

Anyone who would not populate management with relatives, friends and bootlickers would be off to a great start. That's a hell of a lot more than 6.

Anyone who would consider advanced statistics as a useful tool would be superior.

Anyone who values quantifiable skill over imaginary character would be better.

Anyone who would demand positive results from employees in the chain of command and actually use proper, regular evaluation techniques to winnow out the chaff would be smarter.

Anyone who accepted responsibility for their egregious mistakes and learned from them would be a breath of fresh air.

Anyone who didn't rely on their own undeserved reputation for evaluating players would be more successful.

Bergevin is a disaster artist and has made himself and by extension, the team, a laughingstock. I mean who could live up to that lofty accomplishment?
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Yep, the cliches are actually the trademark of his reign and I know we'll see them pop up here long after he's gone. They really are classic in an unintended kinda way.

Btw, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting MB is worse than Millbury as a GM, just merely commenting on the way he comes across in general when speaks. Hard to have faith in the future of the organization when your GM sounds like he has barely the education necessary to be flipping burgers at Harvey's.

He may not be worse than Milbury but he's in the realm of Milbury. That's close enough to warrant ending his tenure with prejudice.
 

justafan22

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Jun 22, 2014
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How hard is it really to make a team demonstrably worse over a 6 year span? That would be equivalent to what Bergevin has done.

Anyone who would not populate management with relatives, friends and bootlickers would be off to a great start. That's a hell of a lot more than 6.

Anyone who would consider advanced statistics as a useful tool would be superior.

Anyone who values quantifiable skill over imaginary character would be better.

Anyone who would demand positive results from employees in the chain of command and actually use proper, regular evaluation techniques to winnow out the chaff would be smarter.

Anyone who accepted responsibility for their egregious mistakes and learned from them would be a breath of fresh air.

Anyone who didn't rely on their own undeserved reputation for evaluating players would be more successful.

Bergevin is a disaster artist and has made himself and by extension, the team, a laughingstock. I mean who could live up to that lofty accomplishment?

He chose a dinosaur coach over a star player and then later fired said coach 7 months later.
 

habtastic

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Aug 17, 2007
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Montrealer in Boston
Just imagine Trump and MB getting a twitter war. Two imbeciles with the biggest egos, lacking the ability to see what utter failures they are and the destruction they leave in their wake. As much as I want to see Trump v Biden, Trump vs Tight Shirt would be even better. At least he'd win at something.

The only thing I agree with him on, and honestly I think it's a case of a broken clock being right twice a day, is his faith in Price. I know it's not a popular opinion around here these days, but I'm very confident that when (huge IF) things outside the crease are going well, Price will be who he needs to be.

Been at a new job for two months, still in Boston. Slowly decorating my cubicle. Put up my Habs flag, knowing full well what response I'd get even from people who don't follow hockey (70% aren't from the city/no clue about the NHL). Made me realize again how Habs fandom is so far from being fair-weather. It's the burden to bear for all of us. We badly need to can this idiot, or life is going to be that much less joyful. Also, thank baby, tank hard.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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He chose a dinosaur coach over a star player and then later fired said coach 7 months later.

It's actually close to an endless list. Bergevin's failures will be legend. Judging by the reaction of Treliving to him at the GM meetings, he's also striving to ostracize himself from that fraternity. No one will answer his calls at the draft now. :sarcasm:
 

justafan22

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Jun 22, 2014
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It's actually close to an endless list. Bergevin's failures will be legend. Judging by the reaction of Treliving to him at the GM meetings, he's also striving to ostracize himself from that fraternity. No one will answer his calls at the draft now. :sarcasm:

"Anybody want Patches"

/dial tone
 
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Frozenice

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Jan 1, 2010
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How hard is it really to make a team demonstrably worse over a 6 year span? That would be equivalent to what Bergevin has done.
The team was a laughing stock 6 years ago, fans showing up with sombreros to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of Gomez's last goal, Molson being publicly humiliated, not sure if things were so fantastically good back then.

MB's not a top 10 GM in the league but the last 6 years weren't so bad all things considered and the Hab's aren't that far away from being a decent young team without the brutal rebuilds that teams like Tampa, Toronto, Florida and Edmonton went through. Fans here wouldn't tolerate those kind of gong shows but they've put up with MB so far.
 

ImNeverWrong

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Jan 18, 2018
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It's actually close to an endless list. Bergevin's failures will be legend. Judging by the reaction of Treliving to him at the GM meetings, he's also striving to ostracize himself from that fraternity. No one will answer his calls at the draft now. :sarcasm:
lol can you elaborate in regards to what happened between treliving and bargainbin?
 

McGuires Corndog

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The team was a laughing stock 6 years ago, fans showing up with sombreros to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of Gomez's last goal, Molson being publicly humiliated, not sure if things were so fantastically good back then.

MB's not a top 10 GM in the league but the last 6 years weren't so bad all things considered and the Hab's aren't that far away from being a decent young team without the brutal rebuilds that teams like Tampa, Toronto, Florida and Edmonton went through. Fans here wouldn't tolerate those kind of gong shows but they've put up with MB so far.

Short of lucking out on Dahlin and Tavares, this team is going absolutely no where any time soon.
 
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Apoplectic Habs Fan

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The team was a laughing stock 6 years ago, fans showing up with sombreros to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of Gomez's last goal, Molson being publicly humiliated, not sure if things were so fantastically good back then.

MB's not a top 10 GM in the league but the last 6 years weren't so bad all things considered and the Hab's aren't that far away from being a decent young team without the brutal rebuilds that teams like Tampa, Toronto, Florida and Edmonton went through. Fans here wouldn't tolerate those kind of gong shows but they've put up with MB so far.


Fans are putting up with a gong show now. This wont accept rebuild is utter crap

This team is a laughing stock now as well. People are laughing at the Weber trade, Price contract, Drouin trade.

And MTL doesnt have a decent up and coming team when you compare against other up and coming teams.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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The team was a laughing stock 6 years ago, fans showing up with sombreros to celebrate the 1 year anniversary of Gomez's last goal, Molson being publicly humiliated, not sure if things were so fantastically good back then.

MB's not a top 10 GM in the league but the last 6 years weren't so bad all things considered and the Hab's aren't that far away from being a decent young team without the brutal rebuilds that teams like Tampa, Toronto, Florida and Edmonton went through. Fans here wouldn't tolerate those kind of gong shows but they've put up with MB so far.

It's hard to argue that the current roster is in any way better as a whole to the one Bergevin inherited.

Of course fans will tolerate a rebuild. They're currently tolerating a failing team with not a great deal to look forward to. The caveat is that a proven incompetent like Bergevin cannot be "masterminding" it.

The last few years weren't bad only if you have absolutely no desire to win a Stanley Cup. Aiming solely to make the playoffs is not a high aspiration.
 
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justafan22

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Jun 22, 2014
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MB's not a top 10 GM in the league but the last 6 years weren't so bad all things considered and the Hab's aren't that far away from being a decent young team

mjl.gif
 
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Frozenice

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It's hard to argue that the current roster is in any way better as a whole to the one Bergevin inherited.

Of course fans will tolerate a rebuild. They're currently tolerating a failing team with not a great deal to look forward to. The caveat is that a proven incompetent like Bergevin cannot be "masterminding" it.

The last few years weren't bad only if you have absolutely no desire to win a Stanley Cup. Aiming solely to make the playoffs is not a high aspiration.
The roster MB acquired wasn't going to win a Stanley Cup without mortgaging the future and I'm glad he didn't do that unlike a lot of posters (that would of made Great GM's, lol) would of done.

I'm not here to defend MB's decisions but maybe Molson was the one who wouldn't tolerate a rebuild, something I find believable, since paying off the team's debt was a good idea at the time.

I've actually followed a lot of teams doing rebuilds and you may believe that there isn't possibly any GM worse then MB but I've seen worse plenty of times. This was a good year to tank and this was good year to give the youngsters a chance to play.
 

Legend123

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Jul 3, 2016
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The roster MB acquired wasn't going to win a Stanley Cup without mortgaging the future and I'm glad he didn't do that unlike a lot of posters (that would of made Great GM's, lol) would of done.

I'm not here to defend MB's decisions but maybe Molson was the one who wouldn't tolerate a rebuild, something I find believable, since paying off the team's debt was a good idea at the time.

I've actually followed a lot of teams doing rebuilds and you may believe that there isn't possibly any GM worse then MB but I've seen worse plenty of times. This was a good year to tank and this was good year to give the youngsters a chance to play.
Up until you realize he built a team, which in his mind would compete for the cup, that unintentionally tanks. I've never seen that before this year.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
19,277
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Calgary
The roster MB acquired wasn't going to win a Stanley Cup without mortgaging the future and I'm glad he didn't do that unlike a lot of posters (that would of made Great GM's, lol) would of done.

I'm not here to defend MB's decisions but maybe Molson was the one who wouldn't tolerate a rebuild, something I find believable, since paying off the team's debt was a good idea at the time.

I've actually followed a lot of teams doing rebuilds and you may believe that there isn't possibly any GM worse then MB but I've seen worse plenty of times. This was a good year to tank and this was good year to give the youngsters a chance to play.

There was no need for a rebuild when Bergevin took over. There was need for growth and improvement of the roster and acquiring talented prospects. 6 years later with a worse team and no top prospects, the time for a rebuild is now.
 
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Frozenice

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Short of lucking out on Dahlin and Tavares, this team is going absolutely no where any time soon.
You can't have it both ways. I wanted to discuss doing a rebuild a couple of years ago and I remember the commentary and assessment of the team then. Hindsight is always 20/20 but it doesn't make for a great GM. MB would of been crucified if he threw in the towel 2 or 3 years ago. And doing a full rebuild would be the only way to have the sunny future everyone here feels they deserve.

We have a reasonably good chance at either player and if MB did what he could to improve the odds of getting either or both, does that make him a bad GM?
 

justafan22

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Jun 22, 2014
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You can't have it both ways. I wanted to discuss doing a rebuild a couple of years ago and I remember the commentary and assessment of the team then. Hindsight is always 20/20 but it doesn't make for a great GM. MB would of been crucified if he threw in the towel 2 or 3 years ago. And doing a full rebuild would be the only way to have the sunny future everyone here feels they deserve.

We have a reasonably good chance at either player and if MB did what he could to improve the odds of getting either or both, does that make him a bad GM?

We have a reasonably good chance at either player

For Dahlin? They're going to have at best a 10% chance.
 

Frozenice

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Jan 1, 2010
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Up until you realize he built a team, which in his mind would compete for the cup, that unintentionally tanks. I've never seen that before this year.
Not signing Radulov and Markov and our unused cap space sealed our fate unlike Edmonton and Ottawa this year, which would be better examples of what you're trying to demonstrate. Look at Chicago, was that intentional?
 

Runner77

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There was no need for a rebuild when Bergevin took over. There was need for growth and improvement of the roster and acquiring talented prospects. 6 years later with a worse team and no top prospects, the time for a rebuild is now.

Bergevin said certain things that created great soundbytes coming from an someone who was unknown to the market and coming off a miserable season in 2011-12.

Bergevin preached patience and building through the draft but capriciously veered into directions that handcuffed the team further.

Both Bergevin and Chevaldayoff were assistant GMs with Chicago and yet we had to land the lesser of the two. Look at how Chevaldayoff built his team:

The Jets finished their first three seasons in that mushy middle: too bad to make the playoffs, too good to end up with a top pick in the draft. But Winnipeg did make the first-rounders it had count, taking Mark Scheifele seventh overall in 2011, Jacob Trouba ninth in 2012, Josh Morissey 13th in 2013 and Nicolaj Ehlers

Each of those guys are core pieces in this season’s contending lineup, but it took time and patience from Cheveldayoff for the team to get here. It seemed every year fans and onlookers were calling on Cheveldayoff to do something to get his team to the next level, but after a few quiet trade deadlines the running joke was it was a “day off” for the GM.

Chevaldayoff didn't hire a neanderthal coach like Therrien. And he didn't try to make the playoffs by sacrificing futures. And he's working out of an even more difficult market than Montreal when it comes to attracting free agents. Winnipeg managed to assemble a better amateur and pro scouting dept. than Montreal.

As for preaching patience, how about practising it:

Scheifele, now a top-line centre, went back to major junior two years in a row after being picked. Once he arrived in the NHL it wasn’t an immediate rise to stardom, as it took him until his third full season to hit 20 goals and 50 points. Morrissey was similarly returned to junior twice before becoming one half of one of the NHL’s most underrated defensive pairs with Trouba, while Ehlers went back once and wasn’t on the Calder Trophy radar in his first season. This year, he’s on track to hit 30 goals.

How about hiring scouts that actually can make non-first round picks count?

Another key to this build has been that Cheveldayoff and his team of scouts have hit on a few post-first-round picks as well, including Adam Lowry (second round), Andrew Copp (fourth round) and Tucker Poolman (fifth round). Their still-developing 2015 draft prospects may prove to be the best yet.

Winnipeg Jets GM talks Stastny, Hellebuyck, 'patient' approach paying off - Sportsnet.ca

Six years with a GM that can't come close to replicating what Chevaldayoff has done -- and this idiotic ownership group is going forward with the same failed recipe.
 

Kent Nilsson

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Jan 31, 2016
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The roster MB acquired wasn't going to win a Stanley Cup without mortgaging the future and I'm glad he didn't do that unlike a lot of posters (that would of made Great GM's, lol) would of done.

I'm not here to defend MB's decisions but maybe Molson was the one who wouldn't tolerate a rebuild, something I find believable, since paying off the team's debt was a good idea at the time.

I've actually followed a lot of teams doing rebuilds and you may believe that there isn't possibly any GM worse then MB but I've seen worse plenty of times. This was a good year to tank and this was good year to give the youngsters a chance to play.

What future are you talking about ? McCarron, Scherbak and Juulsen ?
 

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