Dreger: Bergevin and Botterill in trade discussions?

Habset

Registered User
Feb 21, 2008
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Montreal
I don't think there is much more to be said here. You are still assuming the best of patches, the worst of O'Reilly and indicating we will get a great player at 3rd overall in a deep draft but also indicating there is a reasonable likelihood the 1st overall in that same draft will under perform. You are also assuming the pick next year will be a "top pick". For the value to be fair the assets you are giving all need to hit the mark or exceed expectations and all the ones we are giving need to under perform. I don't need ROR to bounce back, he was a 60 point, two way C, who set the record for faceoff wins last year. We will just keep O'Reilly who is only signed to 32 and not have to count on re-signing a long term deal for a 30 year old player who needs to bounce back and not regress as he gets older to be valuable.

Not that I'm assuming Patches at his best and O'Reilly at his worst but just look at their NHL totals:

Ryan O'Reilly NHL Totals 651 155 267 422 -53
Max Paccioretty NHL Totals 626 226 222 448 +36
 
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LongWayDown37

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
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Not that I'm assuming Patches at his best and O'Reilly at his worst but just look at their NHL totals:

Ryan O'Reilly NHL Totals 651 155 267 422 -53
Max Paccioretty NHL Totals 626 226 222 448 +36
Those stats are close enough - I’ll take the defensive center every time.
 

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
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Not that I'm assuming Patches at his best and O'Reilly at his worst but just look at their NHL totals:

Ryan O'Reilly NHL Totals 651 155 267 422 -53
Max Paccioretty NHL Totals 626 226 222 448 +36
Last three seasons ROR outscores him per 82 games. ROR is widely considered a top 20 center in the game. ROR does it while playing the hardest defensive minutes in hockey and he does it for a worse team. ROR excels at so much else that MaxPac can't touch, ROR is younger, hasn't already started to decline, and is locked up for five years. MaxPac would come here and leave after 1 year where he puts up 20-25 goals and doesn't do much else. Theres virtually no interest among sabres fans in MaxPac at any price, let alone for ROR. The discussion is over and has been for a while.
 

Digable5

Buffalo Proton (Positively Charged)
Feb 23, 2004
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Better defensivelly yet look at the difference in their career +-
Paccioretty has also scored plenty more goals in less games.
Are we still using +/- as an indicator of good defense? I thought we were past that.

Paccioretty is certainly the better goal scorer, but for both points and +/-, please take into consideration that O'Reilly has been on 1 playoff team in the last 6 years and Pacioretty has been on a playoff team 4 of the last 6 seasons.
 

Mattilaus

Registered User
Sep 12, 2014
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Better defensivelly yet look at the difference in their career +-
Paccioretty has also scored plenty more goals in less games.

So what? You are consistently ignoring RORs situation while constantly talking about how bad Patches' is and how he would turn into a 40 goal scorer with a good C. You ignore the fact that O'Reilly has had no help for years. He plays arguably the hardest minutes of anyone in the NHL with 60% D zone starts, some of the highest minutes, and on the worst team in the NHL. You can't talk about the promise of how good patches would do if he was in a better situation and then ignore that ROR is in a worse one when it suits you.

If Patches turns into a 40 goal winger with a good C then O'Reilly turns into an 75 point selke winner on a good team with competent goaltending and D.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
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Are you seriously saying a mid/late round 1st and a second will get you ROR or did I misread what you said? Because if it is that's totally insane.

Only if its before July 1 and Habs take on Moulson's contract.

If BUF is looking to save $$$ Habs can help them out by taking away that big bonus y'all have to pay ROR. BUF GM said it himself if the trade happens before the bonus kicks in it will be cheaper than after.
 

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
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Only if its before July 1 and Habs take on Moulson's contract.

If BUF is looking to save $$$ Habs can help them out by taking away that big bonus y'all have to pay ROR. BUF GM said it himself if the trade happens before the bonus kicks in it will be cheaper than after.
Buffalo's owner, since the day he bought the team, loudly told everyone he was worth billions and his life purpose going forward was to win sports championships. If he ever ran out of money in that pursuit, he said, he would go drill a well.

Buffalo is never going to sacrifice assets for dollars. They haven't since. Don't expect it ever.

And I think we're all done discussing ROR to Montreal. Buffalo and Montreal have both had their demands reported publicly, they're incompatible, move on.
 

tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
29,802
21,844
Don't really see why the Sabres would take Pacioretty instead of the third. I can see why MTL wouldn't give it up, but can't see the Sabres settling for Patches. I'm sure the Isles would offer the 11th or 12th and a guy like Nelson or maybe one of the younger rookies like MDC or JHS if Buffalo was interested. I'm not saying the Isles offer is better than Patches value wise, but what I am saying is Buffalo should be looking for a first round draft pick back in whatever deal they do and not 2nds.

Nah, what we want is young NHL players. We don't need more "maybe somedays..." We need young guys who can PLAY. Any package centered around a middling 1st+ just isn't interesting.
 
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Reddawg

We're all mad here
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I don't have the twitter link anywhere but its been discussed on the Habs board. Bascially said a deal after July 1 is more expensive than before.
I think that's just common sense, I don't know if he's explicitly said it or not. You have to assume that a player like ROR that you only have to pay $25 million in actual money over the remaining 5 years of his deal is more expensive than one you have to pay $32.5 million over the same time period.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
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Buffalo's owner, since the day he bought the team, loudly told everyone he was worth billions and his life purpose going forward was to win sports championships. If he ever ran out of money in that pursuit, he said, he would go drill a well.

Buffalo is never going to sacrifice assets for dollars. They haven't since. Don't expect it ever.

And I think we're all done discussing ROR to Montreal. Buffalo and Montreal have both had their demands reported publicly, they're incompatible, move on.

Well in the end its just discussion and something I would like to seen being done. Doesn't mean it will happen or either GM will go for it. BUF wants the 3rd but it won't happen but its fun to banter back and forth on this board.

I know MTL without its 3rd doesn't have much to offer BUF and I really don't think they want Max either which is our best chip.

The only thing MTL can offer is savings on cash. If BUF isn't interested they aren't. We will see in the next few weeks what happens anyways.
 

tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
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Better defensivelly yet look at the difference in their career +-
Paccioretty has also scored plenty more goals in less games.

He's also 2 years older and about to be a UFA. Go sell him to someone who's interested buying him (i.e., not Buffalo).
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
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I think that's just common sense, I don't know if he's explicitly said it or not. You have to assume that a player like ROR that you only have to pay $25 million in actual money over the remaining 5 years of his deal is more expensive than one you have to pay $32.5 million over the same time period.

Hence my idea. 20th Overall is cheaper than the 3rd Overall. And even taking on Moulson.

But I am sure BUF can get better offers, but I don't know if other teams would be willing to help BUF out in regards to $$$. Are the flyers going to pay the bonus and take a cap dump?
 

Uberpecker

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
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Unless there is some real brewing issue behind the scenes I don't see how trading ROR makes Buffalo a team more likely to win in the near future.

If there is such an issue, 3rd OA would be a somewhat decent consolation price, but nothing more. You'd have to be lucky if that pick turns into what ROR already is.
 
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tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
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Hence my idea. 20th Overall is cheaper than the 3rd Overall. And even taking on Moulson.

But I am sure BUF can get better offers, but I don't know if other teams would be willing to help BUF out in regards to $$$. Are the flyers going to pay the bonus and take a cap dump?

Thing is Buffalo isn't Ottawa. We don't need "help" with money.
 

Mattilaus

Registered User
Sep 12, 2014
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Hence my idea. 20th Overall is cheaper than the 3rd Overall. And even taking on Moulson.

But I am sure BUF can get better offers, but I don't know if other teams would be willing to help BUF out in regards to $$$. Are the flyers going to pay the bonus and take a cap dump?

It's been stated multiple times, we are fine with the cap, we have big contracts ending in the next 2 years and an owner who doesn't care about money. There is zero reason for us to take a worse deal just get cap space we don't need or save money our owner doesn't care about.
 

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