LOL, you say "show me" in a post in which you claim you hear everything saying otherwise, and don't provide a link. Nevermind though, I don't need convincing that Pacioretty is not a target for the Sabres.
Dreger: Bergevin and Botterill in trade discussions?
- Thread starter justafan22
- Start date
LOL, you say "show me" in a post in which you claim you hear everything saying otherwise, and don't provide a link. Nevermind though, I don't need convincing that Pacioretty is not a target for the Sabres.
That's too much from MTL. A 30-goal scorer, a 1st rounder and 2 high seconds? Yea right
Rasmus CacOlainen
The end of the Tank
I can understand the Habs being interested in O'Reilly...as he not only would fill a position of need, but he's exactly the type of center the organization would know how to use correctly.
That being said, I don't see a fit for Pacioretty in Buffalo. He does bring a solid two-way game, and playing him next to Eichel would probably be an awesome thing to watch (remember, Pacioretty never had a good quality center to play with). But he just doesn't fit in their team's timeframe, even with an extension for me.
I really don't think Bergevin is going to move the 3rd overall pick, unless he gets offered a king's ransom for it (and sorry, but I don't think O'Reilly is that). I think our best shot to get anywhere close to O'Reilly would be to trade an extended Pacioretty first, hopefully get an extra 1st in the deal, then package that 1st and a couple of lesser value assets (players and/or picks) for O'Reilly. And unfortunately, I don't see Bergevin being able to do that.
One thing though...I keep reading that Buffalo doesn't NEED to trade O'Reilly. And from a salary cap standpoint, I totally understand. But from what I've read, isn't there some internal pressure to avoid paying him his $7.5m bonus ? Doesn't that come into the equation ? Honestly asking...
That being said, I don't see a fit for Pacioretty in Buffalo. He does bring a solid two-way game, and playing him next to Eichel would probably be an awesome thing to watch (remember, Pacioretty never had a good quality center to play with). But he just doesn't fit in their team's timeframe, even with an extension for me.
I really don't think Bergevin is going to move the 3rd overall pick, unless he gets offered a king's ransom for it (and sorry, but I don't think O'Reilly is that). I think our best shot to get anywhere close to O'Reilly would be to trade an extended Pacioretty first, hopefully get an extra 1st in the deal, then package that 1st and a couple of lesser value assets (players and/or picks) for O'Reilly. And unfortunately, I don't see Bergevin being able to do that.
One thing though...I keep reading that Buffalo doesn't NEED to trade O'Reilly. And from a salary cap standpoint, I totally understand. But from what I've read, isn't there some internal pressure to avoid paying him his $7.5m bonus ? Doesn't that come into the equation ? Honestly asking...
Rasmus CacOlainen
The end of the Tank
This game is about speed, skill and youth nowadays. Patches is not that, also hes a terrible leader. One of the main reasons we are trqding ROR cause hes a terrible leader as well.
Um, no. You must be a Habs fan if you think that is fair for both sides. Or a troll. Or an idiot. Or all of the above.
Agreed thats a bad trade for Buffalo.
3rd overall+ Patches+2019 1st for 1st overall and ROR ? Montreal's giving up alot here but it'll get them the C and D they need.
Mattilaus
Registered User
I don't know where you heard or read this but it is almost assuredly not true. Our owner is a multibillionaire who doesn't care about money, he's thrown tons away on staff already. It would be more likely that if Botterill could get a better deal by waiting and paying the bonus first, Pegula would want him to wait and pay the bonus before trading.
Mattilaus
Registered User
Nope, wouldn't do that for the 2018 1st overall alone, let alone adding ROR. We need Dahlin in the worst way. Also just a suggestion, rather than post a trade proposal and only indicating that it'll get you what you need, you may want to spend some time addressing what exactly this trade does for the other team. Nothing.
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Done as a Sabres fan. We dont need borderline generational D prospects in our org.
It was Lebrun...but I just watched the clip again, and I get what he's saying now.
TheStorm
Registered User
haseoke39
Registered User
- Mar 29, 2011
- 13,938
- 2,491
First overall isn't available. To anyone. But especially Montreal.
Mattilaus
Registered User
Yea and a sure fire way to fix it is to give up the better player (O'Reilly) and the better pick (Dahlin) for magic beans and a 30 year old winger with one year left on his contract. You are right, this is the way to fix the problem. Like why bother making a proposal when you only care to satisfy your own team's needs. Explain to me how your proposal IN ANY WAY makes the Sabres better. I honestly want to hear your rationale for how you believe your proposal makes us a better team.
I don't know the Sabres needs but value wise Montreal is giving up more then they are getting. Paccioretty is better hockey player then O'Reilly, Montreal is just desperate for Centers. Patches is coming off a bad season and he doesnt make his wingers better but neither does O'Reilly really and they're both good defensively. With the right center Patches will give you a few 40 goal seasons, do you need another winger? I honestly don't know but you wouldn't be losing on this trade and you're orignal comment is greatly exagerated.
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Mattilaus
Registered User
Okay cool again you are relating what you are giving up to Montreal and not the Sabres. Do you not see what you are doing wrong? Explain how this deal makes the Sabres better. I don't care about what value Montreal thinks they are giving up, how does it help the Sabres more than having O'Reilly and Dahlin does? You don't even need to know team needs here to explain this.
haseoke39
Registered User
- Mar 29, 2011
- 13,938
- 2,491
No you're very not. Pick #1 this year isn't available for picks 2, 3, 4, and 5. Think about your value now.
LivingRentFree
Registered User
No they are not. If the habs added Scherbak and Mete to your proposal, Buffalo still wouldn't do it.
Mattilaus
Registered User
Responding again because my last response was prior to your edit.
Patches is not better than O'Reilly, and even that aside, he plays a less important position, is signed for 4 years less, is three years older, and had a worse season. But let's assume they are equal for some reason. 1st overall this year (Dahlin) is worth far more than whoever goes at #3 and an unknown 1st rounder next year. Even if your patches bounce back happens, what happens when he doesn't re-sign? What happens when he regresses as he gets older? What if he doesn't bounce back? What basis do you have to say all the stars will align and he will re-sign, bounce back, and be capable of 40 goals for "a few years"? Like you are predicting the literal best case scenario with no real tangible evidence to indicate it will come to pass.
It's not good valuewise and it also does not make the Sabres a better team than having O'Reilly and Dahlin.
I see your point but I have many of the same fears with O'Reilly especially after saying this summer that hes losing love for the game from a foward who's already has his issues. Paccioretty will also end up getting a similar salary to O'Reilly and he'll stay in New York state if you give him a reason too. He's also a very hardworker off the ice in the gym and hasn't had any major lagging injuries so there's no reason to think he's already started regressing at 29.
Concerning Dahlin, Im sure he'll definitely be good but who's to say he doesnt go the same route as Erik Johnson or even Ekblad? A 3OA pick in a deep draft and what will likely be a top pick again next year isnt all that bad of an offer.
Whatever the case I only put it up for discussion but Patches and the 2 1sts staight up for this years 1OA would be a very lopsided trade for Bufallo
junyab
Registered User
- Jan 22, 2013
- 1,704
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Mattilaus
Registered User
I don't think there is much more to be said here. You are still assuming the best of patches, the worst of O'Reilly and indicating we will get a great player at 3rd overall in a deep draft but also indicating there is a reasonable likelihood the 1st overall in that same draft will under perform. You are also assuming the pick next year will be a "top pick". For the value to be fair the assets you are giving all need to hit the mark or exceed expectations and all the ones we are giving need to under perform. I don't need ROR to bounce back, he was a 60 point, two way C, who set the record for faceoff wins last year. We will just keep O'Reilly who is only signed to 32 and not have to count on re-signing a long term deal for a 30 year old player who needs to bounce back and not regress as he gets older to be valuable.
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