Bergeron or Ovechkin

[Vlad The Impaler]

If I compared it fully on potential and no NHL experience I would choose Ovechkin, but I have begun to dislike rated prosepects above NHL players before they step in the league.

It makes me uneasy too, I can't disagree with you on that.

 

[st_roland]

Those were questions. Here's another. Are you stupid or just arrogant?

I'd say he's arrogant, but funny.

I wonder if this guy would have the same opinion if you compare Bergeron to his hero Crosby...

nonono! That comparision is way off. Crosby had like...wow 400 points or something, so he is obviously better. You silly person.

 

[BlackJack21]

Nice try buddy! Bergeron played and produced as an 18 year old. Ovechkin is not even in the NHL. When will you jabronies learn. until he reaches the NHL and produces, he is no better then anyone, get it through your head. Plus there are no guarantees, Ovechkin could flop, don't say oh that won't happen, it has and it will continue to happen. Ovechkin is a prospect nothing more, Bergeron is a 18 year old producing in the NHL and even in the playoffs. Bergeron in a Cake walk until Ovechkin proves himself!

Damn!!!

I hope your not serious...

That sounds like if you had the choice between Ovechkin and Bergeron you would pick Bergie!!!! (I hope I'm wrong)

Any way, your so right... AO havent prouve himself yet.

Let's continue this argument in 12 mounths!!!

BJ21

 

[Crosbyfan]

In all likelihood, yes. The numbers of Crosby are strikingly better than Bergeron's and he could build a case for Crosby breaking out in the NHL and having a 100 point season as an 18 years old with superb two-way play to boot.

You can do a lot with numbers.

Bergeron'x numbers up to this season were typical of a second round pick that would undoubtedly stay in Junior for at least a year or two. EVERYBODY'S numbers were better. NOONE (certainly not me) would have guessed he would have made the Bruihs never mind contribute like he did. You can't compare his Q numbers to Sid's. But if someone said if Bergeron had stayed in the Q he would have lead the league in scoring I would have a hard time arguing against it. 39 points in 71 games as an 18 year old in the NHL is a lot of points.

 

[AEKaki]

Bergeron'x numbers up to this season were typical of a second round pick that would undoubtedly stay in Junior for at least a year or two. EVERYBODY'S numbers were better. NOONE (certainly not me) would have guessed he would have made the Bruihs never mind contribute like he did. You can't compare his Q numbers to Sid's. But if someone said if Bergeron had stayed in the Q he would have lead the league in scoring I would have a hard time arguing against it. 39 points in 71 games as an 18 year old in the NHL is a lot of points.

Good argument, but you'd need
10 Bergeron = 1 Ovechkin

 

[Gumby]

Sorry but I think you are wrong on all counts and are not reading carefully either. I'm a lifetime Montreal fan that was was not very happy when Bergeron had the puck in Montreal's end. THIS is my research if you want to call it that? I'm asking questions not giving answers ( outside of factual information like stats). I would love to "watch the kid". Have you? I just watched Bergeron who was drafted in the SECOND round last year! If he's not the most improved player of his age I would be shocked. If he's not the best player his age I would be at least skeptical. If he does not even compare to Ovechkin then why do the stats state otherwise? (that was a question). Are all the RSL games 1-0 games? Was Ovechkin close to the RSL league lead in points? Will Ovechkin outscore Bergeron next year by an "incomparable" margin?

Something yu might want to consider.....I think we can all agree that the RSL is the 2nd best league in the world right? Well Ovechkin was named the best LW in the entire league (playing against men) in his draft year...something akin to someone like Bergeron (who are quite close in age) making the all-star team.....hell, he might not even make the all-rookie first team.

As for your stat comparison, it's ridiculous to compare RSL and NHL stats.

 

[Gumby]

Add that to the fact that Bergeron was not expected to make the Bruins this year. OR NEXT!

What does that have to do with comparing him with Ovechkin?

 

[Bluenote13]

Nice try buddy! Bergeron played and produced as an 18 year old. Ovechkin is not even in the NHL. When will you jabronies learn. until he reaches the NHL and produces, he is no better then anyone, get it through your head. Plus there are no guarantees, Ovechkin could flop, don't say oh that won't happen, it has and it will continue to happen. Ovechkin is a prospect nothing more, Bergeron is a 18 year old producing in the NHL and even in the playoffs. Bergeron in a Cake walk until Ovechkin proves himself!

This thread rely does defy logic, and this post proves why.

Vin, you've always been such a well informed, sensible poster.... what happend?

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

Damn!!!

I hope your not serious...

That sounds like if you had the choice between Ovechkin and Bergeron you would pick Bergie!!!! (I hope I'm wrong)

Any way, your so right... AO havent prouve himself yet.

Let's continue this argument in 12 mounths!!!

BJ21

12 months I see myself siding with Ovechkin, but I hate comparing non-nhlers to current nhlers.

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

This thread rely does defy logic, and this post proves why.

Vin, you've always been such a well informed, sensible poster.... what happend?

I think I hit my head!
Nah, I just became tired of comparing Non-NHLer's to NHL players. Don't get me wrong, Ovechkin is much more talented, but I want to see him on the big stage before I start saying he is better then a 18/19 year old rookie scoring 39 points in the show, and contributing in the playoffs.

 

[GoM]

This thread =

 

[Gumby]

Nice try buddy! Bergeron played and produced as an 18 year old. Ovechkin is not even in the NHL. When will you jabronies learn. until he reaches the NHL and produces, he is no better then anyone, get it through your head. Plus there are no guarantees, Ovechkin could flop, don't say oh that won't happen, it has and it will continue to happen. Ovechkin is a prospect nothing more, Bergeron is a 18 year old producing in the NHL and even in the playoffs. Bergeron in a Cake walk until Ovechkin proves himself!

And there aren't twice as many guys who have good rookie years to turn into nothing more than average players as highly touted prospects who flop?

 

[Bluenote13]

I think I hit my head!
Nah, I just became tired of comparing Non-NHLer's to NHL players. Don't get me wrong, Ovechkin is much more talented, but I want to see him on the big stage before I start saying he is better then a 18/19 year old rookie scoring 39 points in the show, and contributing in the playoffs.

Come on V, you've seen alot of players over the years, thats why i can't believe you'd say this about Ovechkin.

Alex Semin is a great example. Scored what, 15 points last year in the RSL, and this year score 22 for the Caps in 50 games. The numbers don't mean a thing really, but with Ovechkin, once you've seen him play a few games, it's hard to imagine that he can't keep pace with the Pro's.

The kid is a natural, and that to me makes him more valuable now then a kid like Bergeron who has proved he can be an NHL'er.

 

[GoM]

Semin had 22 points but showed flashes of brilliance with the puck. From what I've seen of Ovechkin, ditto (obviously). I'll admit, I haven't seen much that I can remember about Bergeron except the winner against Montreal in OT, whatever game that was. Points tell part of the story, but before you go flapping your mouth that Bergeron is better than the likely-one-of-the-most-ready-NHL-prospects-in-ages, keep a check on it.

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

Come on V, you've seen alot of players over the years, thats why i can't believe you'd say this about Ovechkin.

Alex Semin is a great example. Scored what, 15 points last year in the RSL, and this year score 22 for the Caps in 50 games. The numbers don't mean a thing really, but with Ovechkin, once you've seen him play a few games, it's hard to imagine that he can't keep pace with the Pro's.

The kid is a natural, and that to me makes him more valuable now then a kid like Bergeron who has proved he can be an NHL'er.

Oveckin is great, thats for sure. All I want to do is to try and realize Bergeron's accomplishments before I start jumping all over saying Ovechkin is better. Ovechkin should be great to watch, hearing all about his offense and physical play have gotten me pretty excited.

 

[Marshall]

While if I was given a choice of the two, I'd probably take Ovechkin, the arguement that Ovechkin hasn't proven anything at the NHL level while Bergeron has is very valid, IMO.

 

[pavel13]

Nice try buddy! Bergeron played and produced as an 18 year old. Ovechkin is not even in the NHL. When will you jabronies learn. until he reaches the NHL and produces, he is no better then anyone, get it through your head. Plus there are no guarantees, Ovechkin could flop, don't say oh that won't happen, it has and it will continue to happen. Ovechkin is a prospect nothing more, Bergeron is a 18 year old producing in the NHL and even in the playoffs. Bergeron in a Cake walk until Ovechkin proves himself!

But just because Bergeron has had one season of moderate success, doesn't mean he is a better player than Ovechkin. Yes, Ovechkin could flop, but so could Bergeron. Having one good season doesn't make anyone a good player. The possibility of flopping doesn't just go away completely after a player plays his first season. Daigle was considered a flop, but, if I remember correctly, he had an ok first year. I'm sure there are others. Pat Falloon maybe?

 

[Crosbyfan]

What does that have to do with comparing him with Ovechkin?

My contention is that Bergeron is the most improved 18 year old this season and that he is at least comparable (I haven't claimed he's better) to Ovechkin. The point that noone thought he would make the Bruins was in reference to how much he had exceeded expectations.

Ovechkins numbers have not improved greatly since last season when he also had a very good year in a tough league. This does not mean his play has not improved. I do realize these are just "cold facts" and do not indicate everything. I realize the RSL is much closer to the NHL than the Q is. But this just adds to my argument that Bergeron made a bigger step this year than anyone of similar age. For the record I do not consider Crosby "similar age" as he is two years younger. Ovechkin is, by all accounts, considered the best prospect at his age, which I think makes him a reasonable player to compare Bergeron to as they are so close in age. (Malkin on the other hand is 10 and a half months younger than Ovechkin and a full year younger than Bergeron)

I just find it hard to believe you can't compare the two, Bergeron and Ovechkin. You would think from some of the reactions I had compared Bergeron to Lemieux. (That's better left to an Ovechkin thread)

 

[SwOOsh*]

This thread =

I think it's worse then that.

This thread =

 

[hbk]

I just find it hard to believe you can't compare the two, Bergeron and Ovechkin. You would think from some of the reactions I had compared Bergeron to Lemieux. (That's better left to an Ovechkin thread)

In some respects you really have. With the notable exception of Crosby, Ovechkin is the most highly touted prospect in years to be drafted. He is projected as not just an impact player but as a legitimate superstar in this league who will dominate the game. His impact is projected to be greater than such NHL stars such as Kovalchuk who is a player who's trade value is greater than Bergeron. It takes nothing away from Bergeron and his accomplishments but his upside isn't anywhere near where Ovechkin is projected to play at.

 

[Crosbyfan]

In some respects you really have. With the notable exception of Crosby, Ovechkin is the most highly touted prospect in years to be drafted. He is projected as not just an impact player but as a legitimate superstar in this league who will dominate the game. His impact is projected to be greater than such NHL stars such as Kovalchuk who is a player who's trade value is greater than Bergeron. It takes nothing away from Bergeron and his accomplishments but his upside isn't anywhere near where Ovechkin is projected to play at.

So would you agree with many posters who feel Ovechkin will get significantly more than 60 points next season while Bergeron will get significantly less? That Bergeron's upside should top out at 60-65 points and Ovechkin should surpass that next year alone?

If this is true then I would have to agree that the two are not near the same level as prospects. But I don't buy it. If Bergeron doesn't get 50+ points in 82 games next season then I would say he will have seriously "plateaued" and if Ovechkin gets 70 + I will be very impressed. That wouldn't make Bergeron a "flash in the pan" though, would it?

I'll go out on a limb and say Bergeron gets more points next season.

 

[King of Stankonia]

Looks like Bergeron's season ended a little earlier than he'd hoped as the Habs upset the Bruins. 1 goal and 3 assist in the 7 game series and definitely one of the better Bruin forwards overall. In the regular season he had 16 goals and 23 assists in 71 games. Not a bad season for an 18 year old drafted last year in the second round. How would he compare to Ovechkin in terms of present ability and potential. A year ago this would have seemed a no-brainer. Ovechkin is still improving, 23 points in 53 games this year in the RSL vs 15 points last year in 40 games; But Bergeron has undoubtedly played above all expectations.

So would you agree with many posters who feel Ovechkin will get significantly more than 60 points next season while Bergeron will get significantly less? That Bergeron's upside should top out at 60-65 points and Ovechkin should surpass that next year alone?

If this is true then I would have to agree that the two are not near the same level as prospects. But I don't buy it. If Bergeron doesn't get 50+ points in 82 games next season then I would say he will have seriously "plateaued" and if Ovechkin gets 70 + I will be very impressed. That wouldn't make Bergeron a "flash in the pan" though, would it?

I'll go out on a limb and say Bergeron gets more points next season.

Above are your first post in the thread and the last one. Is this even the same person making these posts?

In the first post your thoughts were choppy and your train of thought seemed broken (not to mention your evaluation of prospects). Your last one however, was coherent, well thought out, and actually contained multiple paragraphs. Was your first post made in a drunken stupor/overtired state?

That being said, I certainly don't agree that Bergeron = Ovechkin. But your points about Bergeron being under-rated are well taken.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Oh Good God

LET'S MAKE THIS REALLY EASY.

AS A GM OF AN NHL TEAM(OR JUST A FAN), RESPOND HERE IF ANYONE WOULD WANT TO TRADE THE #1 OVERALL PICK AND THE RIGHT TO DRAFT OVECHKIN STRAIGHT UP FOR BERGERON.

COME ON?? ANYONE?

GET BERGERON FOR OVECHKIN, RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW????

ANYONE???????????????

(crickets chirping......dead silence.......)

 

[EroCaps]

So would you agree with many posters who feel Ovechkin will get significantly more than 60 points next season while Bergeron will get significantly less? That Bergeron's upside should top out at 60-65 points and Ovechkin should surpass that next year alone?

If this is true then I would have to agree that the two are not near the same level as prospects. But I don't buy it. If Bergeron doesn't get 50+ points in 82 games next season then I would say he will have seriously "plateaued" and if Ovechkin gets 70 + I will be very impressed. That wouldn't make Bergeron a "flash in the pan" though, would it?

I'll go out on a limb and say Bergeron gets more points next season.

Bergeron scored 39 points playing nearly a full season with a great team's top lines. I'll admit to being decidedly impressed with his play, and project him to be a quality top six player for Boston forever-ever, but ask yourself how many rookies would have outscored Patrice given the same opportunity.

I'd wager at least a dozen.

Ovechkin has a completely superior skill set, and the ability to play top line minutes immediately.

 

[Epsilon]

Next up:

Brent Burns or Dion Phaneuf

Hey, they are both defensemen now right?