Bergeron or Ovechkin

[Crosbyfan]

The one thing that i find rather odd is that I do believe Ovechkin is gonna be a significantly betterr player then Bergeron but the thing is if Ovehckin would have played this season in the NHL as opposed to the RSL, do you really think he would have score alot more points the Bergeron? I would predict that if Ovechkin would have been playing this year in the NHL he would score around the same amount of points, given that Bergeron plays on a better team with less ice time and Ovechkin plays on a worse team with lots of ice time

Add that to the fact that Bergeron was not expected to make the Bruins this year. OR NEXT!

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The one thing that i find rather odd is that I do believe Ovechkin is gonna be a significantly betterr player then Bergeron but the thing is if Ovehckin would have played this season in the NHL as opposed to the RSL, do you really think he would have score alot more points the Bergeron? I would predict that if Ovechkin would have been playing this year in the NHL he would score around the same amount of points, given that Bergeron plays on a better team with less ice time and Ovechkin plays on a worse team with lots of ice time

Undoubtedly he would have scored more...regardless of team.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Most RSL games are low scoring(ie 2-1). I dont think he was as most players in their prime(26-29) usually are the league leaders. Yes Ovechkin with outscore Bergeron by a decent amount, if only for the fact he will prob be playing on the first line all year.

What kind of numbers did the leaders put up? Also if Bergeron plays all 82 games next year as second line centre and puts up 60 points no one will be nearly as surprised as with this years output. How much of a "decent amount" do you think Ovechkin will outpace 60 points after his 23 point season in the RSL? Is the RSL average "really" 3 goals per game?

 

[pittengineer]

What kind of numbers did the leaders put up? Also if Bergeron plays all 82 games next year as second line centre and puts up 60 points no one will be nearly as surprised as with this years output. How much of a "decent amount" do you think Ovechkin will outpace 60 points after his 23 point season in the RSL? Is the RSL average "really" 3 goals per game?

Like I said, the RSL is actually more defensive than the NHL. I am also pretty sure Ovechkin wasnt even on the top line for some of the year and still put up those points.

 

[Nielson81]

Ovechkin -- WAY UP HERE





































Bergeron.....CAN NOT EVEN COMPARE

Sorry
Unbiased Canadian

 

[Crosbyfan]

Bergeron is a bright young player who will prob top out as a 2nd liner. Ovechkin has top line from day 1 written all over him. I would also put Malkin above Bergeron at this point.

Why do you think a guy that was drafted in the second round last year and will very likely make the second line next year, at 19, have reached his peak? Do you put Malkin ahead in terms of perceived potential or as you see them NOW. Could Malkin have accomplished NOW what Bergeron just did?

EDIT: my point is that Bergeron NEVER had top line written close to him... until this year. He CANNOT improve at the pace he has this year. THAT would be silly. THAT would mean 100 points next year. NOT possible! He only had 70+ points in Junior last year. Ovechkin was playing in the RSL. Ovechkin had 15 points in 40 games against the toughest opposition outside of the NHL.

But then Bergeron went to the Bruins camp for some "training"....

 

[rnyquist]

Why do you think a guy that was drafted in the second round last year and will very likely make the second line next year, at 19, have reached his peak? Do you put Malkin ahead in terms of perceived potential or as you see them NOW. Could Malkin have accomplished NOW what Bergeron just did?

EDIT: my point is that Bergeron NEVER had top line written close to him... until this year. He CANNOT improve at the pace he has this year. THAT would be silly. THAT would mean 100 points next year. NOT possible! He only had 70+ points in Junior last year. Ovechkin was playing in the RSL. Ovechkin had 15 points in 40 games against the toughest opposition outside of the NHL.

But then Bergeron went to the Bruins camp for some "training"....

will malkin put up 30 points? oh heck yes, i expect him to lead the pens in his first year. Will ovechkin, oh heck yes, my guess is he gets 60 minimum. Can bergeron lead a team?? no. He played well yes, at times very well but your putting way to much credit on him. In the playoffs the ONLY and i mean ONLY reason he got any points was because Nylander and Samsonov carried that line and when Nylander went out for the one game Bergeron was MIA

 

[pittengineer]

Why do you think a guy that was drafted in the second round last year and will very likely make the second line next year, at 19, have reached his peak? Do you put Malkin ahead in terms of perceived potential or as you see them NOW. Could Malkin have accomplished NOW what Bergeron just did?

EDIT: my point is that Bergeron NEVER had top line written close to him... until this year. He CANNOT improve at the pace he has this year. THAT would be silly. THAT would mean 100 points next year. NOT possible! He only had 70+ points in Junior last year. Ovechkin was playing in the RSL. Ovechkin had 15 points in 40 games against the toughest opposition outside of the NHL.

But then Bergeron went to the Bruins camp for some "training"....

I think Ovechkin and Malkin will be really close to leading their teams in points. Both will get alot of time and both will be playing with the best players on their teams respectively, if they come over from Russia. I am not usually one to say about players who have not yet stepped foot on to nhl ice, but Malkin and Ovechkin look to be the real deal. Something should be said for Bergeron producing at the nhl level, but i see him being pretty much around + - 10 points around his point totals this year. Great young player though.

 

[Crosbyfan]

will malkin put up 30 points? oh heck yes, i expect him to lead the pens in his first year. Will ovechkin, oh heck yes, my guess is he gets 60 minimum. Can bergeron lead a team?? no. He played well yes, at times very well but your putting way to much credit on him. In the playoffs the ONLY and i mean ONLY reason he got any points was because Nylander and Samsonov carried that line and when Nylander went out for the one game Bergeron was MIA

This is a good point as I believe Nylander and Samsonov were Bostons best forwards in the playoffs. Malkin put up 30 points? Too early to say but if he did that would put him in close proximity to Bergeron THIS year. Ovechkin put up 60? I think this is High. A very good season if he did and that would be comparable to Bergeron NEXT year assuming Bergeron starts slowing down but not regressing. Bergeron can't possibly keep improving at the present rate. That would put them at the same level if that happened. But I think it's more likely Bergeron reaches 60 next year and Ovechkin the year after. Just my opinion and mostly based on the stats and watching Bergeron come outof nowhere.

 

[rnyquist]

This is a good point as I believe Nylander and Samsonov were Bostons best forwards in the playoffs. Malkin put up 30 points? Too early to say but if he did that would put him in close proximity to Bergeron THIS year. Ovechkin put up 60? I think this is High. A very good season if he did and that would be comparable to Bergeron NEXT year assuming Bergeron starts slowing down but not regressing. Bergeron can't possibly keep improving at the present rate. That would put them at the same level if that happened. But I think it's more likely Bergeron reaches 60 next year and Ovechkin the year after. Just my opinion and mostly based on the stats and watching Bergeron come outof nowhere.

so what your trying to do is justify bergeron with Ovechkin through stats but your neglecting the big picture, what do they do for their team. If bergeron was out would the bruins have made it to game 7, yup without a doubt, without bergeron would the bruins have placed 2nd in the east, without a doubt, and thats the difference. Any games the caps and pens win next year likely will be a result to ovechkin and they'll win more if the respective player is scoring, simple as that. Not to mention ovechkin and malkin have games that encompass both ends of the ice, bergeron not so much. Not to mention bergeron was gifted with a team lacking a 2nd line center so he may have been a product of situation rather than talent. I guess when you look at it you need to remember a few things.

1)what the player does for his team
2)what he does compared to everyone else on his team

and thats something your neglecting, your taking pure stats, while nice, it isn't fair to Ovechkin or Malkin. Its like taking Teemu Selanee's rookie season and comparing him to Gretzky's rookie season. While teemu had an amazing rookie season, his impact was nothing compared to gretzky's for his team

 

[pittengineer]

I think you will see Malkin and Ovechkin approach or exceed 60 points. I think both are that talented. Alot goes into my thinking this. They both will see a lot of minutes, playing with the best their teams have to offer(how about Mario paired w/ Malkin), and will be allowed to grow because both wash and pitt are young and growing. 60 points would be exceptional for a rookie, let alone a 18 or 19 year old one. That being said, I think Ovechkin and, to a slightly lesser degree, Malkin are going to be special players. Bergeron has somethings working against him compared to these two. Not as many minutes, not on the #1 line, not playing with his teams best players. Let me put it this way, where does Bergeron stand in terms of best player on the Bruins. Where would Ovechkin and Malkin stand from day 1 in terms of best player on their respective teams(exclude mario from pens)?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Why does this "potential" not show up in the numbers. Would Ovechkin have had 60+ points this season in the NHL? A season which would then be "no comparison" to Bergeron's 39 points? Or is the RSL just THAT much better than the NHL?

Faulty, idiotic number-cruncher logic. We get a lot of this around here so you're going to make friends fast.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Faulty, idiotic number-cruncher logic. We get a lot of this around here so you're going to make friends fast.

Those were questions. Here's another. Are you stupid or just arrogant?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Those were questions. Here's another. Are you stupid or just arrogant?

Those questions have been answered a thousand times before. We're now at the point where people simply acknowledge reality or they don't. There's no need to explain that crap all over again.

To answer your new question: I'm tired and a bit arrogant

 

[Crosbyfan]

I think you will see Malkin and Ovechkin approach or exceed 60 points. I think both are that talented. Alot goes into my thinking this. They both will see a lot of minutes, playing with the best their teams have to offer(how about Mario paired w/ Malkin), and will be allowed to grow because both wash and pitt are young and growing. 60 points would be exceptional for a rookie, let alone a 18 or 19 year old one. That being said, I think Ovechkin and, to a slightly lesser degree, Malkin are going to be special players. Bergeron has somethings working against him compared to these two. Not as many minutes, not on the #1 line, not playing with his teams best players. Let me put it this way, where does Bergeron stand in terms of best player on the Bruins. Where would Ovechkin and Malkin stand from day 1 in terms of best player on their respective teams(exclude mario from pens)?

I would put Bergeron close to average, but I also didn't expect him to make the team this year. I think you are expecting a lot from Ovechkin and especially Malkin next year.

 

[CBJSlash]

I can't believe this thread exists. Bergeron isn't even going to be a calder finalist. He only put up 5 more points than Zherdev in 15 more games. Zherdev was struggling in Russia. This is one of those things I wish you could save and look at 15 years later, and can't believe that it was brought up.

 

[Epsilon]

I wonder if this guy would have the same opinion if you compare Bergeron to his hero Crosby...

 

[EroCaps]

I would put Bergeron close to average, but I also didn't expect him to make the team this year. I think you are expecting a lot from Ovechkin and especially Malkin next year.

The RSL is a notoriously defense-oriented league with a strict pecking order. Ovechkin had less playing time this season than veteran Russians who will never make an AHL team, and still was voted the league's best left-winger at the age of 18. (All-Star).

I'd be shocked if the kid didn't light up the league next year, he's a smart, mature player that is stronger the Bergeron, with sick speed, and power-finishing skills. By most all acounts, Ovechkin ranks 10 out of 10 in every category.

In comparison, Bergeron is a smart, smooth skating shifty player with better than average finishing ability who benefited from good time on one of the better regular season teams.

 

[pittengineer]

The RSL is a notoriously defense-oriented league with a strict pecking order. Ovechkin had less playing time this season than veteran Russians who will never make an AHL team, and still was voted the league's best left-winger at the age of 18. (All-Star).

I'd be shocked if the kid didn't light up the league next year, he's a smart, mature player that is stronger the Bergeron, with sick speed, and power-finishing skills. By most all acounts, Ovechkin ranks 10 out of 10 in every category.

In comparison, Bergeron is a smart, smooth skating shifty player with better than average finishing ability who benefited from good time on one of the better regular season teams.

wouldnt go that far and this point in his career, but he def is up there.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

scott gomez had 70 pts his first year in the nhl. higher than both kovalchuk and heatley in their first years. who do you think is better and has more potential?

quit looking at numbers and realize that ovechkin is a dominating offensive talent. (he's already dominating at the world championships against many nhl'ers). bergeron just doesn't come close.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I wonder if this guy would have the same opinion if you compare Bergeron to his hero Crosby...

In all likelihood, yes. The numbers of Crosby are strikingly better than Bergeron's and he could build a case for Crosby breaking out in the NHL and having a 100 point season as an 18 years old with superb two-way play to boot.

You can do a lot with numbers.

 

[King of Stankonia]

Those questions have been answered a thousand times before. We're now at the point where people simply acknowledge reality or they don't. There's no need to explain that crap all over again.

To answer your new question: I'm tired and a bit arrogant

Vlad, you'd make a great fish. The bait was there, and you just swam away from it.

You're a better man than I Vlad . . .

EDIT - On a slightly related note, I can't believe this thread continues. It's one thing to be ignorant, but it's completely different to be consistently ignorant and rude despite everyone telling you that you are indeed both.

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

Bergeron doesn't even dream of being in Ovechkins class not on present ability or potential. Sorry but Bergeron doesn't even come close. Is Bergeron about to become a franchise player? not a chance, will Ovechkin?? yes

Nice try buddy! Bergeron played and produced as an 18 year old. Ovechkin is not even in the NHL. When will you jabronies learn. until he reaches the NHL and produces, he is no better then anyone, get it through your head. Plus there are no guarantees, Ovechkin could flop, don't say oh that won't happen, it has and it will continue to happen. Ovechkin is a prospect nothing more, Bergeron is a 18 year old producing in the NHL and even in the playoffs. Bergeron in a Cake walk until Ovechkin proves himself!

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Nice try buddy! Bergeron played and produced as an 18 year old. Ovechkin is not even in the NHL. When will you jabronies learn. until he reaches the NHL and produces, he is no better then anyone, get it through your head. Plus there are no guarantees, Ovechkin could flop, don't say oh that won't happen, it has and it will continue to happen. Ovechkin is a prospect nothing more, Bergeron is a 18 year old producing in the NHL and even in the playoffs. Bergeron in a Cake walk until Ovechkin proves himself!

There is no denying that Bergeron has delivered. If you've got to choose between the two, you have to consider the upside and potential.

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

There is no denying that Bergeron has delivered. If you've got to choose between the two, you have to consider the upside and potential.

If I compared it fully on potential and no NHL experience I would choose Ovechkin, but I have begun to dislike rated prosepects above NHL players before they step in the league.