Benson vs. Lavoie: Who steps up?

Who is more likely to make the roster next season?

  • Tyler Benson

    Votes: 92 56.1%
  • Raphael Lavoie

    Votes: 24 14.6%
  • Neither have much of a chance at all

    Votes: 48 29.3%

  • Total voters
    164

3IR

Registered User
Feb 12, 2019
7,154
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Feels like make or break for Benson at this point.

I think he played okay last season, but was obviously incredibly nervous, and was playing all over the lineup, and wasn't playing consistent games or with consistent linemates. I don't wanna write him off after a rough 7 game NHL debut, but he's at the age now where he needs to stick this season.

Lavoie I feel isn't there yet, and if he makes the team it would be a huge shocker, where as Benson I feel like I expect to make the team, or it's a disappointment.
 
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MessierII

Registered User
Aug 10, 2011
27,644
16,188
Sorry. You have no idea. Quenville was a defenseman & as good a D as Benson was a forward in minor hockey. The fact you dont know Jost played minor hockey further proves my point that you really dont have an informed opinion. Jost was as good, as was Steel. Or close enough.
Benson was great. But he played on stacked teams (SSAC) that were far, far better than everyone else. Steel (Strathcona), not so much.
Fwiw, ask most 98 kids who played against him or their parents. Most would agree with me he was nowhere near on another level
Wow your actually going to argue this ok

11-12
12-13

Jost U15 Prep

43 GP 86 P
33 GP 109 P

Steel AAA

33 GP 50 P
31 GP 104 P

Quennville AAA

32 GP 44 P
32 GP 72 P

Clague AAA

33 GP 34 P
33 GP 74 P

Benson AAA

33 GP 84 P
33 GP 146 P

So no you are incorrect in literally every single thing you said in your original post. No one was as good, no one was his equivalent.
 

Daryls Friend

Registered User
May 14, 2017
3,068
3,306
Wow your actually going to argue this ok

11-12
12-13

Jost U15 Prep

43 GP 86 P
33 GP 109 P

Steel AAA

33 GP 50 P
31 GP 104 P

Quennville AAA

32 GP 44 P
32 GP 72 P

Clague AAA

33 GP 34 P
33 GP 74 P

Benson AAA

33 GP 84 P
33 GP 146 P

So no you are incorrect in literally every single thing you said in your original post. No one was as good, no one was his equivalent.
Ahh . Boxcar guy. Tell you what. You clearly have no idea. If you did you would know that :
1) Quenville is a d-man. Obviously his stats arent going to be as good. Btw he won top D man in Bantam AAA as a 1st year
2) Jost played in the Edmonton area throughout the largest part of his minor hockey (though the stats you cite are from POE)
3) that Benson played on far, far, far superior teams than his opposition , which particularly at that age makes worlds of difference to the stats ones accumulates
4) the people who have an actual clue (ie Not you, but the kids who played against Benson & people who got to watch them an awful lot (ie parents)) would (and are) tell you that there wasnt a whole lotta difference, if any, between these players.
Its pointless discussing with you as you arnt informed.
So Im out on it.
 

MessierII

Registered User
Aug 10, 2011
27,644
16,188
Ahh . Boxcar guy. Tell you what. You clearly have no idea. If you did you would know that :
1) Quenville is a d-man. Obviously his stats arent going to be as good. Btw he won top D man in Bantam AAA as a 1st year
2) Jost played in the Edmonton area throughout the largest part of his minor hockey (though the stats you cite are from POE)
3) that Benson played on far, far, far superior teams than his opposition , which particularly at that age makes worlds of difference to the stats ones accumulates
4) the people who have an actual clue (ie Not you, but the kids who played against Benson & people who got to watch them an awful lot (ie parents)) would (and are) tell you that there wasnt a whole lotta difference, if any, between these players.
Its pointless discussing with you as you arnt informed.
So Im out on it.
This is amazing. Yeah the guy who smashed the province wide points record and was the consensus top pick in the WHL bantam draft had like 5 guys on his level right here in edmonton!

I’m just all about those boxcars though right?

vancouver giants GM on Benson


“He’s not a cute player,” said Bonner. “I’ve seen a lot of guys in minor hockey that just want to do the offence, that just want to do the skill. He has a lot of the intangibles that Brendan Gallagher had. Kills penalties. Blocks shots. He hits. Obviously scores a lot.
“That package was too hard to turn down.”

Little surprise as phenom Benson goes first overall in WHL bantam draft

All about the boxcars.

Sorry you, josts mom, Steels mom and Quennville dad disagree but your wrong.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
45,296
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He's 23 in March, basically half a year away. He's 22 this year and 23 next year, lets not try and age him a year. He's been pro for 2 seasons, why the panic? Even if he doesn't make the team this year it's fine for a player to play 3 seasons in the AHL, especially given the lost time in junior. Making the NHL at 23 isn't unusual and given his injury issues in junior was always the likely path for him. Not all guys develop quickly, especially outside the 1st round. I don't get the panic with Benson. I get the issues with his skating, that's fair and will likely determine how good he can be, but I don't get why playing 2 years in the AHL and killing it is being held against him. That's how you develop talent out of the 1st round. Let them grow and dominate at lower levels. He's even doing well in the Swiss League right now playing on big ice.

The problem is theres very little change in the player and what he needs to do to be an NHL player. Subpar skating, terrible putting the puck in the net, even at AHL level, plays a small game, doesn't like contact. Nothing he's doing translates to doing well in the NHL. He's shown one period that even approximates being up to playing here. Mostly he's looked like nothing here.

For a player like him, that is supposed to just get by on talent, he should've shown that already here. Really the only thing he brins here is some passing, and we have that in spades. We could use some others with some finish.
 

Panda Bear

Registered User
Apr 2, 2010
6,566
5,699
If Benson never had to deal with injuries, he would have gone in the top ten and would very likely be a regular top nine NHL player right now.

I have no crystal ball as to whether he'll hit his full potential, but each and every injury that he's ever endured has simultaneously delayed his development and reduced the chances that he'll hit that potential.

I think I'm missing half the argument in this thread, which is why I am thankful for the ignore function.
 
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ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
31,864
11,992
Sylvan Lake, Alberta
OP has false logic.
Calling Benson and Lavoie the 2 most promising and NHL ready forward prospects.

Should have been McLeod and Benson.
Agreed. I don't see Lavoie being ready beyond perhaps a call up for a game if needed. McLeod doesn't have the upside but could be NHL ready very soon.
 

OilersSnowFan

Registered User
Aug 27, 2019
285
232
penticton
globalnews.ca
Ahh . Boxcar guy. Tell you what. You clearly have no idea. If you did you would know that :
1) Quenville is a d-man. Obviously his stats arent going to be as good. Btw he won top D man in Bantam AAA as a 1st year
2) Jost played in the Edmonton area throughout the largest part of his minor hockey (though the stats you cite are from POE)
3) that Benson played on far, far, far superior teams than his opposition , which particularly at that age makes worlds of difference to the stats ones accumulates
4) the people who have an actual clue (ie Not you, but the kids who played against Benson & people who got to watch them an awful lot (ie parents)) would (and are) tell you that there wasnt a whole lotta difference, if any, between these players.
Its pointless discussing with you as you arnt informed.
So Im out on it.

Ah yes Minor hockey parents are who I go to for non bias analysis of players I have the same knowledge talking to the walls in the rinks as I would talking to Minor hockey parents
 
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Daryls Friend

Registered User
May 14, 2017
3,068
3,306
This is amazing. Yeah the guy who smashed the province wide points record and was the consensus top pick in the WHL bantam draft had like 5 guys on his level right here in edmonton!

I’m just all about those boxcars though right?

vancouver giants GM on Benson


“He’s not a cute player,” said Bonner. “I’ve seen a lot of guys in minor hockey that just want to do the offence, that just want to do the skill. He has a lot of the intangibles that Brendan Gallagher had. Kills penalties. Blocks shots. He hits. Obviously scores a lot.
“That package was too hard to turn down.”

Little surprise as phenom Benson goes first overall in WHL bantam draft

All about the boxcars.

Sorry you, josts mom, Steels mom and Quennville dad disagree but your wrong.
Well, boxcar boy, I guess if you had a clue & actually had watched him & those other kids for their whole minor hockey career your opinion may have some currency, but you didn't so you dont.
 

Daryls Friend

Registered User
May 14, 2017
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Ah yes Minor hockey parents are who I go to for non bias analysis of players I have the same knowledge talking to the walls in the rinks as I would talking to Minor hockey parents
I have no horse in the race . None. Zero bias. I dont know any of the kids or their parents. He just wasn't far superior to those kids. He wasn't. And I haven't even criticized the kid at all.
With the benefit of hindsight though, some of what's occurred with him isn't surprising. He was never close to being an elite skater (Steel was a very good skater), and I think thats probably his biggest issue. And those things become more obvious as you move up the food chain.He also had a real advantage when he was a kid in that he was a giant and then physically matured quite young. That gave him a real advantage that obviously went away as he got older.
Please understand, he basically did whatever he wanted out there. But in minor hockey, even at the Bantam & Midget AAA level, the real elite kids all do that.
All that been said, he always had a real good noggin , good hands and competed hard. Noggin and compete of which are his best attributes still ( not sure about his hands from what I’ve seen, as he . hasn’t been able to show that really yet). I'm just not sure he can overcome his footspeed issue to play as high as a 2nd liner. And I dunno how easy it is for a guy whose a bit of a plodder to play on the 3rd or 4th line.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
14,653
15,203
Vancouver
I saw Benson and Steel in both their age 16 and 17 years in the Dub. I was curious after all the hype and pinball point totals. On my limited viewings I came away more impressed by Steel (some position bias), his skating and skills over Benson who actually seemed more of a North-South grinding winger. It is really unfortunately Benson had so many injuries and so young during critical development years.
I hope Benson can ultimately become an NHL player - his AHL production is reasonable for projecting to the next level - but I think without lot of improvement in his skating it will be tough. Can he top out as a 3rd line grind guy with smarts and a hard game? Perhaps his strong character will drive him to that level. But skating ...
 
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Panda Bear

Registered User
Apr 2, 2010
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Ah yes Minor hockey parents are who I go to for non bias analysis of players I have the same knowledge talking to the walls in the rinks as I would talking to Minor hockey parents
...are you discrediting the fact that the parents of Jost, Steel and Quenneville all opined that Benson was better than their own respective child?

Wouldn't the typical hockey parent argue that their child is the real talent?
 

OilersSnowFan

Registered User
Aug 27, 2019
285
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penticton
globalnews.ca
...are you discrediting the fact that the parents of Jost, Steel and Quenneville all opined that Benson was better than their own respective child?

Wouldn't the typical hockey parent argue that their child is the real talent?

I might be mistaken but I thought the person who wrote the comment I replied to was antibenson no pro benson
 

voxel

Testicle Terrorist
Feb 14, 2007
19,961
4,379
Florida
Benson like Marody - needs to improve his skating.

Lots to like about Benson but even for the AHL he's just a meh skater. I've always said Benson is similar to Gagner... and strangely Gagner was gritty in his short stint in the AHL. For the record I think Gagner is an NHL player but not on a playoff caliber team.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
17,384
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Benson like Marody - needs to improve his skating.

Lots to like about Benson but even for the AHL he's just a meh skater. I've always said Benson is similar to Gagner... and strangely Gagner was gritty in his short stint in the AHL. For the record I think Gagner is an NHL player but not on a playoff caliber team.
To be fair, the AHL has the fastest skater in both NHL and AHL
 

McOvechking

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
11,339
2,674
Edmonton, Alberta
NHL readiness should be Benson. Long term should be Lavoie IMO. Both need to improve their skating if they want NHL careers.
Lavoie's skating showed some signs of improvement last year. At least in terms of power and edgework. His straight away speed and quickness still need work though for sure.
 

Daryls Friend

Registered User
May 14, 2017
3,068
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I might be mistaken but I thought the person who wrote the comment I replied to was antibenson no pro benson

Its funny. You offer an objective opinion about a kid that you saw play maybe 30 times in minor hockey (same number of times Quenville, a bit less for Clague , Steel and Jost as they were more rural, but saw them all play a fair bit in spring hockey) and you are characterized as "anti" cause you have the audacity to say those other kids were as good, or close enough. And the opinion isn't close to been unique.And I don't even criticize the kid.
Such is Oiler HF Boards when it comes to an Oiler prospect.
 
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Daryls Friend

Registered User
May 14, 2017
3,068
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...are you discrediting the fact that the parents of Jost, Steel and Quenneville all opined that Benson was better than their own respective child?

Wouldn't the typical hockey parent argue that their child is the real talent?
Huh? Who said that?
I can guarantee you from experience that as you say, those parents would have been absolutely convinced their kid was as good/better.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
14,653
15,203
Vancouver
Not to poke holes in an amazing accomplishment for Benson's eye-popping bantam scoring record, but, the record he broke was held by Ty Rattie. Rattie's career path was high second round NHL pick, solid AHL point production, cup of coffee NHL stints and ticket to Europe hockey career due to deficiencies in skating. Obscene production in bantam does not create certainty as an adult professional hockey player. Benson's smarts, character and grit game (where Rattie may have lacked a bit in grit) will be vital to finding a support role in the NHL. Cheering for the kid but pragmatic.
 
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OilersSnowFan

Registered User
Aug 27, 2019
285
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Its funny. You offer an objective opinion about a kid that you saw play maybe 30 times in minor hockey (same number of times Quenville, a bit less for Clague , Steel and Jost as they were more rural, but saw them all play a fair bit in spring hockey) and you are characterized as "anti" cause you have the audacity to say those other kids were as good, or close enough. And the opinion isn't close to been unique.And I don't even criticize the kid.
Such is Oiler HF Boards when it comes to an Oiler prospect.

All I have to is look at your username and profile picture to conclude that you have the mind of a 13 year old bully and opinion should just go in one ear out the other
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
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I have no horse in the race . None. Zero bias. I dont know any of the kids or their parents. He just wasn't far superior to those kids. He wasn't. And I haven't even criticized the kid at all.
With the benefit of hindsight though, some of what's occurred with him isn't surprising. He was never close to being an elite skater (Steel was a very good skater), and I think thats probably his biggest issue. And those things become more obvious as you move up the food chain.He also had a real advantage when he was a kid in that he was a giant and then physically matured quite young. That gave him a real advantage that obviously went away as he got older.
Please understand, he basically did whatever he wanted out there. But in minor hockey, even at the Bantam & Midget AAA level, the real elite kids all do that.
All that been said, he always had a real good noggin , good hands and competed hard. Noggin and compete of which are his best attributes still ( not sure about his hands from what I’ve seen, as he . hasn’t been able to show that really yet). I'm just not sure he can overcome his footspeed issue to play as high as a 2nd liner. And I dunno how easy it is for a guy whose a bit of a plodder to play on the 3rd or 4th line.

Seems to me that as soon as the Oilers picked Benson is when I started hearing all the accolades of this best ever Bantam player yada yada. I live here and there was basically no furor over this player, here, prior to the pick. Lots of it, a ton, after.

i mean similar has occurred since. Say something not great about Benson and you end up on somebodies hit list here.

Not Benson specifically either, a common dynamic on this board in regards to its own prospects and younger players. Its verboten to critique.
 

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