Benning vs Gillis

[Wilch]

ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

3 year extension! How do I get a job where the expectations are either so ridiculously low and/or not relevant?

You basically need to find a boss who gets wet at the sight of you, that's really it.

 

[arttk]

Sorry to quote him again but this is hilarious and I don't wanna miss out on the fun:



If that has you irritated with Gillis, you must be livid that Benning drafted a tweener with Pastrnak at the next pick.

Or Virtanen before Nylander and Ehler.
Or Juolevi before Tkachuk and Keller.

@ChefBoiRD

 

[Hit the post]

Benning has the support of Linden. That is all he needs. Aquaman listens to Linden. Linden keeps the mob in line as well. You really think any true Canuckfan would boo Linden? At least that's my POV.

 

[Melvin]

Thank you for doing this. Does this include the Rangers top-10 scorers all year? If so, would be very curious to see how much the deadline shifted them.

Yes, I used the same methodology for each team which was just a quick and dirty average of their top ten, including players no longer on the team.

A lot of teams will play younger players now during garbage time but it doesn't change the reliance on older players for most of the season.

I am probably going to add in the last two seasons to chart velocity.

 

[VanJack]

Wow....I realize every team in the league has draft whiffs.....but can you imagine if the Canucks had drafted Pastrnak, Ehlers andTkachuk instead of McCann, Virtanen and Juolevi.....could easily have happened.....that would be your top line right there, right now.

 

[Jyrki21]

This thread in a nutshell:

Most people: Well obviously the one on the left.

Competing "perspective": No.

Most people: By virtually any metric, the one on the left is—

Competing: I don't like the angle of that tower in the middle.

Most people: How do you even compare that to—

Competing: No. Wrong.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Stupid?

OK you and I need to hit the reset button. Let me present to you an argument, to see if we can realign this debate instead of maligning it:

I for one feel that this little snippet is a good representation of how bad of a GM Gillis was. A sensible counter argument would be appreciated without any ad hominems and/or banning requests

Sometime after trading for Ballard, Gillis was actively trying to trade Bieksa due to the conondrum the acquisition of Ballard created on the back end and on the cap. Ballard and Hamhius were acquired within a month of each other. With Salo, Erhoff, Edler, Hamhius, Ballard and Bieksa in the fold and Erhoffs next contract looming, Gillis decided to cut bait with Bieksa cause certainly no other GM out there would dare touch Ballard not with that contract and poor quality of play, ergo the Buyout. Gillis had to get rid of someone if he wanted to be in a position to resign Erhoff. Bieksa the fall guy because of the Ballard acquisition. He certainly wasn't going to trade his newest acquisition - Ballard. The optics!

While actively shopping Bieksa, a miracle happens for Gillis, Salo snaps his Achilles saving Gillis the embarrassment from trading Bieksa at a time when his stock was low. What happens after that? Bieksa turns his game around playing some of his best hockey. But Salo's injury only delayed the inevitable for Gillis - which eventually had him trading Erhoffs negotiation rights to the Rangers for a 4th round pick

No Ballard, maybe we are in a position to sign Erhoff instead of trading his rights to the Rangers. We also must be mindful of the fact that Edlers best hockey was when Erhoff was his partner, he was never the same after.

I give you - The Fall out from the Keith Ballard experiment. It's bigger than you realize

The cherry on top? The 4th round pick Gillis received from the Rangers for Erhoffs rights? He later trades to Columbus for Sami Shutdown Pahlsson. You know who Columbus drafts with that pick? Josh Anderson! The Ballard Acquisition Fallout is endless

But did that Bieksa trade happen?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Anyway, I feel we can pretty safely conclude that this experiment by ROE to invite the best and brightest or whatever of the Benning Bros to make their strong cases for how well Benning is doing has gone one of two ways:

1. ROE chose poorly, and these folks are full of ****.

2. The best argument in favour of Benning's work here so far is "who is Vancouver?"

I agree.

I think it's crystal clear that the arguments the Benning Bro's come up with have been utterly destroyed by facts. Those arguments do not hold up. It's just a shame that seemingly the majority of people off HF haven't yet come to this realization. Which leads me to what I've been saying for a while now and that is this is the management these people deserve.

Until there's a change I'm perfectly content sitting on the sidelines and just watching this train wreck unfold. I'll be there to remind people about what they supported and to remind them not to ever get upset with the results because this is exactly what they asked for, but I'm not going to waste time getting too involved with the team or caring what they do. I'm already done with the Tank thread. I couldn't care less if they get Dahlin in the draft.

 

[ChefBoiRD]

Or Virtanen before Nylander and Ehler.
Or Juolevi before Tkachuk and Keller.

@ChefBoiRD

The goal posts are set like this

Blame Benning for juolevi and virtanen. Credit the scouting department for Boeser, Demko, Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind

Blame the scouting department for the poor drafting during the Gillis regime don't blame Gillis

 

[arttk]

The goal posts are set like this

Blame Benning for juolevi and virtanen. Credit the scouting department for Boeser, Demko, Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind

Blame the scouting department for the poor drafting during the Gillis regime don't blame Gillis

Blame?

Oh no, we give full credit to Benning for drafting them. Just pointing out the hyprocrisy of you being mad at a 29th pick bustig but being A-OK and having full patience3 with a 6th overall pick barely looking like a 3rd liner.

 

[ChefBoiRD]

I tabulated the average age of each team's top-10 scorers. I figured we would be around the middle somewhere. The results were actually .... surprising.

Team	PTS	T10Age
Columbus	77	23.8
Arizona	55	24.2
New Jersey	78	24.7
Florida	75	24.8
Tampa Bay	100	24.9
Philadelphia	81	25.2
Calgary	78	25.5
Colorado	80	25.6
NY Islanders	70	25.6
Nashville	98	25.7
Carolina	71	25.7
Winnipeg	91	25.9
Edmonton	64	25.9
Toronto	87	26.0
Vegas	93	26.1
Boston	94	26.3
Buffalo	56	26.4
Dallas	82	26.5
Chicago	68	26.5
Montréal	62	26.5
Ottawa	57	26.7
Anaheim	80	26.9
NY Rangers	67	27.3
Los Angeles	79	27.5
San Jose	81	27.6
Minnesota	85	27.8
Pittsburgh	84	27.8
Washington	83	27.9
Detroit	63	28.5
St. Louis	77	29.1
Vancouver	59	29.3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

...yes, that's right. The very bottom.

Put in graphical form (forgive the crudity) :

Nice work Mangiacake

In order to properly understand the big picture everyone should fear becoming mentally clouded and obsessed with one small and temporary section of truth

Disclaimer: "The graph provided by Butt Gillis is not eternally static" - Daniel Sedin 37 years old

 

[ChefBoiRD]

Blame?

Oh no, we give full credit to Benning for drafting them. Just pointing out the hyprocrisy of you being mad at a 29th pick bustig but being A-OK and having full patience3 with a 6th overall pick barely looking like a 3rd liner.

29th pick? Oh Niklas Jensen! Yup he busted. The Anaheim Ducks say hi (Rakell drafted 30th right after Jensen)

But you're right I give full credit to Gillis for drafting Jensen 29th

 

[Black Noise]

The goal posts are set like this

Blame Benning for juolevi and virtanen. Credit the scouting department for Boeser, Demko, Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind

Blame the scouting department for the poor drafting during the Gillis regime don't blame Gillis

Most people give Benning credit for Pettersson and Boeser, later round picks are harder to pin on GMs though as they normally just go off the scouting department.

However, 1st round picks are normally almost always chosen or finalized by the GM.

I give Benning credit for Boeser and Pettersson, but I also give him credit for passing on Tkachuk and Ehlers, who seemed like the obvious picks given their draft year numbers.

 

[arttk]

29th pick? Oh Niklas Jensen! Yup he busted. The Anaheim Ducks say hi (Rakell drafted 30th right after Jensen)

But you're right I give full credit to Gillis for drafting Jensen 29th

Still dancing around Virtanen point?

Ehler and Nylander drafted right after Virtanen.

 

[ChefBoiRD]

However, 1st round picks are normally almost always chosen or finalized by the GM.

Textbook?

 

[ChefBoiRD]

Still dancing around Virtanen point?

Ehler and Nylander drafted right after Virtanen.

The book written on Jake?

 

[Black Noise]

Textbook?

What?

 

[arttk]

The book written on Jake?

Todd Bertuzzi says hi

Ehler and Nyalnder are already first liners. I know you don't want to admit it but Virtanen is a giant bust.

Bertuzzi, lol. Bert scored more in his rookie year than Jake in the last 3 years combined.

 

[ChefBoiRD]

What?

Do GM's refer to the GM Textbook when it is their time in the draft to make the choice and when its the scouting departments turn?

"Hey Brackett! Step off my boy, not your turn. I got this." - Benning

 

[Black Noise]

Do GM's refer to the GM Textbook when it is their time in the draft to make choice and the scouting department.

"Hey Brackett! Step off my boy, not your turn. I got this." - Benning

Oh for christ sake.

GMs typically only have a major say in 1st round picks because those are the guys that they scout. I seriously doubt that Benning went to CederRapids to watch Gaudette play.

However it wouldn't surprise though if Benning watched Boeser at Waterloo or at the Hlinka.

Obviously there's no "book" but its rational to think with the amount of stuff a GM has to do that they're only able to scout a select few players.

Try making an actual argument for once, this bullshit you keep posting is absolute garbage.

 

[ChefBoiRD]

Ehler and Nyalnder are already first liners. I know you don't want to admit it but Virtanen is a giant bust.

Bertuzzi, lol. Bert scored more in his rookie year than Jake in the last 3 years combined.

And followed up that 18 goal season with a 10 goal season then a 7 goal season. He was tracking so well and the Islanders so jubilated about it they gave him away for a vet who's best days were well behind him

 

[y2kcanucks]

Most people give Benning credit for Pettersson and Boeser, later round picks are harder to pin on GMs though as they normally just go off the scouting department.

However, 1st round picks are normally almost always chosen or finalized by the GM.

I give Benning credit for Boeser and Pettersson, but I also give him credit for passing on Tkachuk and Ehlers, who seemed like the obvious picks given their draft year numbers.

Except there is also the point about Judd Brackett and Ryan Johnson pushing for the Canucks to take Boeser (and Gaudette), so how much influence did Benning have there? I guess he gets credit for listening to them and not screwing that up?

 

[Dab]

This is true.

However, the ironic thing is that Gillis was a working-class kid from Kingston, Ontario who was a lunchbucket NHL player and only became a lawyer because he was so angry about Alan Eagleson essentially stealing his money. Benning, conversely, was a rich kid from Edmonton with a dad who worked for the Montreal Canadiens.

Yes, it's funny people's perceptions right? Gillis' gruff demeanour always came off working class to me, not arrogant.

 

[Black Noise]

Except there is also the point about Judd Brackett and Ryan Johnson pushing for the Canucks to take Boeser (and Gaudette), so how much influence did Benning have there? I guess he gets credit for listening to them and not screwing that up?

Eh I'll normally give the GM the benefit of the doubt on the 1st round picks.

I'll give Benning credit for taking Boeser and Pettersson, I do think it's unfair to pin Virtanen and Juolevi on Benning but then say Boeser was a Brackett pick.

 

[Pip]

Stop taking the bait. No serious person is going to argue that the Virtanen pick wasn’t a mistake. You can like Virtanen and like Benning but it’s clear that Jake is projecting as a bottom 6 player while Nylander and Ehlers are first line players. It’s like believing in Lawson Crouse over Brock Boeser.